MasterSmithFandango
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 7,269
More... I suppose. I guess this is different than reading an LP of Oblivion or FO3, as those are amusingly bad. This game just makes me sad.
-
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Let's play Alpha Brotocol (and Rage together)
- Thread starter Cassidy
- Start date
Cassidy
Arcane
All Boss Fights are made in Taiwan
The life of a single person isn't more important than the lives of dozens. Besides, considering that Thorton already did her, why make such a stupid decision? Thus, Thorton heads towards the bombs at the east wing, forsaking Madison.
: Thorton, there is something provoking interference with the PDA in this room,
: there's some proximity mines near your location
As stealth just doesn't work anyway, better to do it in the safest possible manner, and prepare for the next wave of goons.
Once the room is cleared, Thorton hacks a computer to check more interesting e-mails.
So, as already guessed, it was planned to be a false-flag terrorist strike. Then, European Union of Faggotry would be pressed to push new laws that increase the demand for the types of products Halbech sells, ???, PROFIT!!!
Turrets. They are treated with explosives and thus, Thorton Shepard proceeds to the next area.
He finally finds the location of the bombs. The place is filled with Deus Vult goons and there is no time to try being stealthy. Which is the best way to clear a room quickly? For Thorton, it was a no-brainer.
Seriously, "Plan B: Kill it with fire" is the name of one of the "achievements" in this game, and after this, it happened. Lets just say that there were few missions from now on where no incendiary bombs weren't used.
With every enemy killed with fire... Oh shit, there goes the last EMP. Last chance, if it is a miss, it'll explode.
That was close. The tragedy was prevented. Mission accomplished, and hopefully now Mike can just get the hell out of there, right?
WRONG!
: Do as he says.
: Ironic, when you think about it. I know you had feelings for her.
At least the game pointed quite well how bad of a judge of character Marburg is. Because for Thorton Shepard, there would be no difference between Madison and a blow-up doll except the doll would be less interesting to do.
: Killing her makes no sense.
: It will. When you look back on this, it will. I'm impressed, you stayed focused, carried out your mission, disarmed the bombs... and left her for last. I didn't think you had it in you.
: I couldn't let you set off the bomb. Whatever you have planned, I couldn't let you hurt anyone else.
: Did you think you had time to save her? No, no, no... I was quite clear with you about that. You knew Thorton.
: You didn't have to kill her. There wasn't any point. She was a hostage. You coulda used her for leverage...
: No. When assets are no longer needed, I remove them.
: Like your government did to you.
: Did you really think this exhibit was worth protecting? I'm curious, why did you choose the bomb?
: It wasn't about the bomb or the people, I had a mission. I had to carry it out.
: Of course.
: Are you done? Because you're gonna answer for what you did to Madison.
: Oh, the choices an agent in your line of work has to make everyday, the choice of saving the innocent you know against dozens, hundreds, even thousands of possible innocents... I wonder what Miss Saint James would say about that. Are you ready to die?
: Not until I kill you.
Time for
POPAMOLE BOSS FIGHT #2
It is frustrating, and was obviously made to force the player to use the sticky cover system, but there is one way to beat Marburg quickly and assuredly, as you'll see.
His head isn't completely behind cover and Thorton managed to pin him down. No need to explain how it went then. Lets just say it was dull.
Yes, this is the key to defeating Marburg in this boss fight.
Another cutscene that completely ignores the position of Marburg, of Thorton and the weapon Thorton was using before it.
: You are disposable and obsolete.
: Surrender now, and I can negotiate a deal, Marburg.
: Oh, I don't think so, Thorton. Immunity, protection, those things don't interest me. Even if the authorities knew I existed, which they don't.
: Don't add to the bodycount, Marburg, there's no point to any of this.
: I think you'll see Miss Saint James before I do, Thorton.
: Keep talking, it lets me know where to shoot. It doesn't have to end like this, the authorities are on their way.
: You've won, the bombs are defused, there's nothing left for you to do here.
: Except stop you.
: From what? I've failed. The authorities get here, they'll arrest us both. I'll be out in an hour. You will die in
: Then why are you negotiating?
: Because you're listening. You're a professional, Thorton, you see the big picture, fight another day and all those words that mean 'retreat'.
: You can go run if you want to, just make sure you give me a clear shot at your back as you're running.
Oh shit, forced miss in cutscene is forced.
And thus, the mission is over. Madison dies but dozens of lives are saved and a disaster that could be used for corporate interests is averted.
Before the safehaven, yet another cutscene with G-man Leland.
: said you had feeling for this woman.
: I couldn't let the bombing happen.
: I hope you don't blame me for her death. Marburg wanted you to save her, not out of any emotional tie, mind you. For him, it was business. A shame. But you can't save everyone Michael, can you? If I had been in your shoes... well, I don't know what I would have done.
: Stopping you took precedence. It was my fault she was there, but I couldn't let you go through with your bombing.
: Indeed. After Saudi Arabia I always thought your mission came first. That's what made you so useful.
: It was useless, stopping that bombing, it wouldn't have benefitted you.
: Really? That's because you have a very, narrow view of events.
: Lectures on perspective from a blind man, that's a first. You planning to teach about ethics next?
: I can't expect you to keep up with every news report, I have an entire division devoted to it, plus my ace in the hole. The bombing was intended to reorganize terrorist legislation in the European Union.
: How does that benefit you?
: The reorganization was to benefit Halbech. Surveillance, airport screening tech, weapons... Mr. Marburg little crusade in Rome was to remind Europe what fear is.
: So you killed Madison for profit.
: No, Mike, you did. You brought her into this mess. You had her take you to Marburg, despite the risks, and then, you failed to protect her. Blame me all you want, but step back and think about it. You must have thought about it. Then it was all over, you were the big hero, saved all of Rome. When things were quiet, no one shooting at you, no bombs... what did you think about then?
:Stop meddling into our businesses.
And with these threats, Operation EXTREME Vult is finally over. The bombing was averted, but in the end, G-man and Marburg still found Madison's death sufficient to trigger the chain of events that would fulfill Halbech interests in Europe.
Between Russia and Taiwan, the choice was obvious. And impeding threat of assassination that could provoke a third world war was more urgent than anything else. The nightmare of the Popamole Minigames Hotel was coming.
Verdict of this update: This level manages to show everything that is wrong with Alpha Protocol at once. From the impossibility of stealth due to poor level designs, to the cheap choices, to the annoying and exploitable boss fights and finally, the forced action cutscenes that block you from, for example, trying to take a proper shot on Marburg because the game railroads the fact Thorton will always miss him regardless of skill level or choice.
The life of a single person isn't more important than the lives of dozens. Besides, considering that Thorton already did her, why make such a stupid decision? Thus, Thorton heads towards the bombs at the east wing, forsaking Madison.
As stealth just doesn't work anyway, better to do it in the safest possible manner, and prepare for the next wave of goons.
Once the room is cleared, Thorton hacks a computer to check more interesting e-mails.
So, as already guessed, it was planned to be a false-flag terrorist strike. Then, European Union of Faggotry would be pressed to push new laws that increase the demand for the types of products Halbech sells, ???, PROFIT!!!
Turrets. They are treated with explosives and thus, Thorton Shepard proceeds to the next area.
He finally finds the location of the bombs. The place is filled with Deus Vult goons and there is no time to try being stealthy. Which is the best way to clear a room quickly? For Thorton, it was a no-brainer.
Seriously, "Plan B: Kill it with fire" is the name of one of the "achievements" in this game, and after this, it happened. Lets just say that there were few missions from now on where no incendiary bombs weren't used.
With every enemy killed with fire... Oh shit, there goes the last EMP. Last chance, if it is a miss, it'll explode.
That was close. The tragedy was prevented. Mission accomplished, and hopefully now Mike can just get the hell out of there, right?
WRONG!
At least the game pointed quite well how bad of a judge of character Marburg is. Because for Thorton Shepard, there would be no difference between Madison and a blow-up doll except the doll would be less interesting to do.
Time for
POPAMOLE BOSS FIGHT #2
It is frustrating, and was obviously made to force the player to use the sticky cover system, but there is one way to beat Marburg quickly and assuredly, as you'll see.
His head isn't completely behind cover and Thorton managed to pin him down. No need to explain how it went then. Lets just say it was dull.
Yes, this is the key to defeating Marburg in this boss fight.
Another cutscene that completely ignores the position of Marburg, of Thorton and the weapon Thorton was using before it.
Oh shit, forced miss in cutscene is forced.
And thus, the mission is over. Madison dies but dozens of lives are saved and a disaster that could be used for corporate interests is averted.
Before the safehaven, yet another cutscene with G-man Leland.
And with these threats, Operation EXTREME Vult is finally over. The bombing was averted, but in the end, G-man and Marburg still found Madison's death sufficient to trigger the chain of events that would fulfill Halbech interests in Europe.
Between Russia and Taiwan, the choice was obvious. And impeding threat of assassination that could provoke a third world war was more urgent than anything else. The nightmare of the Popamole Minigames Hotel was coming.
Verdict of this update: This level manages to show everything that is wrong with Alpha Protocol at once. From the impossibility of stealth due to poor level designs, to the cheap choices, to the annoying and exploitable boss fights and finally, the forced action cutscenes that block you from, for example, trying to take a proper shot on Marburg because the game railroads the fact Thorton will always miss him regardless of skill level or choice.
MasterSmithFandango
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 7,269
Radisshu said:
NOT THIS AGAIN!
Radisshu
Prophet
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 5,623
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
But really, how many games have deeper plot-related C&C? Fallout has a few quest solutions and ending slides, but the main game doesn't change completely depending on your actions. Arguably less than AP.
The distinction between gameplay-related C&C and plot-related C&C is important to make. A good example is Deus Ex, actually. Its plot-C&C is almost entirely superficial, while the gameplay C&C (different builds causes you to have to work through different routes, etc) is great. AP pretty much works the other way around.
Silellak
Cipher
Having played through AP twice, I'm trying to figure out where this vaunted "plot-related C&C" comes from. It doesn't seem to go any deeper than DA, to be honest.
Here are a few examples from my playthroughs. For reference:
1. Playthrough #1: Stealth build, making friends with as many people as possible, killing as few people as possible. Referred to as Saint Thorson.
2. Playthrough #2: Action build, pissing off as many people as possible and murdering anyone when I have the chance. Referred to as Douche Thorton.
Obviously I did not hate the game, because I was willing to play it more than once, though the second playthrough was mostly out of curiosity, to see how the game reacts to a vastly different approach. The result? Pretty unimpressive, honestly. I'd consider the overall experience of AP to be about on-par with the average Bioware offerings like ME1 or Jade Empire.
Here's the deal: I am not a C&C whore. C&C is secondary for me; I can enjoy a linear game, as long as the gameplay is still enjoyable. I also don't mind if the C&C that exists is shallow and plot-oriented, as it is in almost every other game. However, when the core gameplay is as frustrating and sub-par as AP's, then I expect the rest to be exceptional to compensate. The game simply promised far more than it was able to deliver. Your "weapon" is supposed to be choice, yet Obsidian gladly makes most of those "choices" for you.
Here are a few examples from my playthroughs. For reference:
1. Playthrough #1: Stealth build, making friends with as many people as possible, killing as few people as possible. Referred to as Saint Thorson.
2. Playthrough #2: Action build, pissing off as many people as possible and murdering anyone when I have the chance. Referred to as Douche Thorton.
Example 1: Approach to Madison St. James
Saint Thorson made super happy friends with Madison and boned her. Found our who her daddy was. Then she dies because he chose the bombs over her.
Douche Thorton did everything he could to piss her off. Eventually she decides "enough is enough", knocks him out using SUPER PLOT POWER, and escapes his safehouse. Despite this drastically different relationship between Thorton and St. James, Marburg still kidnaps her and uses her for leverage over Thorton during the bomb plot because...uh...lazy writing? I guess?
Example 2: Mudering SIE
Saint Thorson was friendly with SIE. This didn't change much besides making her a possible handler on the last mission.
Douche Thorton murdered her in cold blood after Brayko kidnapped her. This resulted in her...not being a possible handler on the last mission. Oh, and losing access to her items. The story was for the most part completely unaffected by this character's death.
Example 3: Approach to Albratross
Saint Thorton was super bro-y with Albatross and Sis. This resulted in...Albatross being a possible handler for the last mission. And not being a dick while talking to Thorton.
Douche Thorton did everything he could to piss off Albatross. Murder Sis? Fuck yeah. Remove the bug from his servers? Fuck no. Result? Not available as a possible handler for the last mission. That's it. There was even some implication right before the last mission that Albatross might attack the Grey Box just to get to Thorton because he pisses him off that much. However, nothing came of it. A shame, because that actually would've been sort of cool.
Example 4: Mina
Saint Thorton loved Mina, and Mina loved Saint Thorton. They were tight, got their sex on, and saved the world together.
Douche Thorton hated Mina, and Mina hated Douche Thorton. It's hard to blame her, considering her randomly gunned down CIA agents, NSA agents, local cops, civilians - anyone who got in front of his gun. And yet, other than some dialogs at the end, nothing changed, despite the fact she's your handler for a good 75% of the game, if not more. She doesn't even have added snarky VO up until the last couple of dialogs with her, to the point where it really felt forced when she calls you a "monster" at the end of the game, despite helping you on every single mission before this one and never trying to talk sense into you. Lots of missed opportunities here.
Example 5: The End Game
Saint Thorton snuck his way through the adventure, befriending everyone, then ended up taking down Alpha Protocol and riding off into the sunset with Mina, followed by the ridiculously half-assed "radio broadcast" ending that made me long for DA's ending slides.
Douche Thorton murdered the fuck out of everyone, then ended up taking down Alpha Protocol and riding off into the sunset with Heck, followed by the ridiculously half-assed "radio broadcast" ending that made me long for DA's ending slides.
These were some of the most notable things, for me. I could obviously analyze all the tiny differences between the playthroughs, but what it boils down to is this - the largest differences were what Thorton learned about the plot. Saint Thorton never learned about Mina being the reason he had to go rogue, and Douche Thorton never learned that Scarlet was an assassin. Beyond that, some changes in e-mail text, and the availability of certain items in the store and certain allies in missions...nothing really changed.
The best part of the game, I thought, is how characters outside of missions responded to your actions during the missions...but I don't think Obsidian took that far enough. For instance, Saint Thorton started off tranquing his way trough the Saudi Missions, so when he got to Nasri, he hadn't actually killed any of his men - but Nasri still accused him of doing so. A big deal? Not really, but gave me a glimpse behind the thin curtain that is the game's C&C.
Another example? How about the fact that at the end, no one seemed to care Douche Thorton had murdered his way around the world, except in a few pieces of dialog here or there. You'd think Westridge of all people would want a piece of him, but oddly enough only Saint Thorton fought him. This is despite the fact that the mission briefing for the last mission specifically says to watch out for traps set by Westridge and Darcy because they're all pissy about the murder-spree.
Overall, let's look at DA and AP when it comes to the ending and how much it changes based on player action:
AP: Thorton either joins with Halbech or doesn't. Either way, he has to take down AP. After that it's just a matter of whether or not Thorton is working with Halbech, and whether or not Halbech's role in everything was revealed. Really not much variation, and it all comes down to a single choice that you might not even be able to make unless you got buddy-buddy with Leland. The story is in more or less the same shape when it comes time for the hypothetical sequel-that-will-never-be.
DA: By comparison, this game varies a lot toward the end. Two of the most long-loyal companions can abandon you, or die, based on your choices. This isn't including other companions that can leave or even die before you ever get a chance to meet them earlier in the game. Based on other choices, the game ends with either the Warden heroically sacrificing himself, or Loghain redeeming himself by sacrificing himself, or Alistair sacrificing himself, or no one dies because a God-child was born instead. The Kingdom is then ruled by a cocky, heart-over-head young Warden, or an intelligent and perhaps a bit devious Queen, or the Warden himself, depending on other choices. In all these various endings, the story being told is subtantially different. In fact, I would (and have) argued that depending on how you play, the game can very-much play out as a tragic stroy about Loghain's fall and redemption. If you play another way, Loghain is just a whiny little cunt that gets his head cut off by an even-whinier cunt-who-would-be-King. I don't think there's anything nearly as drastic, story-change-wise, in AP.
Saint Thorson made super happy friends with Madison and boned her. Found our who her daddy was. Then she dies because he chose the bombs over her.
Douche Thorton did everything he could to piss her off. Eventually she decides "enough is enough", knocks him out using SUPER PLOT POWER, and escapes his safehouse. Despite this drastically different relationship between Thorton and St. James, Marburg still kidnaps her and uses her for leverage over Thorton during the bomb plot because...uh...lazy writing? I guess?
Example 2: Mudering SIE
Saint Thorson was friendly with SIE. This didn't change much besides making her a possible handler on the last mission.
Douche Thorton murdered her in cold blood after Brayko kidnapped her. This resulted in her...not being a possible handler on the last mission. Oh, and losing access to her items. The story was for the most part completely unaffected by this character's death.
Example 3: Approach to Albratross
Saint Thorton was super bro-y with Albatross and Sis. This resulted in...Albatross being a possible handler for the last mission. And not being a dick while talking to Thorton.
Douche Thorton did everything he could to piss off Albatross. Murder Sis? Fuck yeah. Remove the bug from his servers? Fuck no. Result? Not available as a possible handler for the last mission. That's it. There was even some implication right before the last mission that Albatross might attack the Grey Box just to get to Thorton because he pisses him off that much. However, nothing came of it. A shame, because that actually would've been sort of cool.
Example 4: Mina
Saint Thorton loved Mina, and Mina loved Saint Thorton. They were tight, got their sex on, and saved the world together.
Douche Thorton hated Mina, and Mina hated Douche Thorton. It's hard to blame her, considering her randomly gunned down CIA agents, NSA agents, local cops, civilians - anyone who got in front of his gun. And yet, other than some dialogs at the end, nothing changed, despite the fact she's your handler for a good 75% of the game, if not more. She doesn't even have added snarky VO up until the last couple of dialogs with her, to the point where it really felt forced when she calls you a "monster" at the end of the game, despite helping you on every single mission before this one and never trying to talk sense into you. Lots of missed opportunities here.
Example 5: The End Game
Saint Thorton snuck his way through the adventure, befriending everyone, then ended up taking down Alpha Protocol and riding off into the sunset with Mina, followed by the ridiculously half-assed "radio broadcast" ending that made me long for DA's ending slides.
Douche Thorton murdered the fuck out of everyone, then ended up taking down Alpha Protocol and riding off into the sunset with Heck, followed by the ridiculously half-assed "radio broadcast" ending that made me long for DA's ending slides.
These were some of the most notable things, for me. I could obviously analyze all the tiny differences between the playthroughs, but what it boils down to is this - the largest differences were what Thorton learned about the plot. Saint Thorton never learned about Mina being the reason he had to go rogue, and Douche Thorton never learned that Scarlet was an assassin. Beyond that, some changes in e-mail text, and the availability of certain items in the store and certain allies in missions...nothing really changed.
The best part of the game, I thought, is how characters outside of missions responded to your actions during the missions...but I don't think Obsidian took that far enough. For instance, Saint Thorton started off tranquing his way trough the Saudi Missions, so when he got to Nasri, he hadn't actually killed any of his men - but Nasri still accused him of doing so. A big deal? Not really, but gave me a glimpse behind the thin curtain that is the game's C&C.
Another example? How about the fact that at the end, no one seemed to care Douche Thorton had murdered his way around the world, except in a few pieces of dialog here or there. You'd think Westridge of all people would want a piece of him, but oddly enough only Saint Thorton fought him. This is despite the fact that the mission briefing for the last mission specifically says to watch out for traps set by Westridge and Darcy because they're all pissy about the murder-spree.
Overall, let's look at DA and AP when it comes to the ending and how much it changes based on player action:
AP: Thorton either joins with Halbech or doesn't. Either way, he has to take down AP. After that it's just a matter of whether or not Thorton is working with Halbech, and whether or not Halbech's role in everything was revealed. Really not much variation, and it all comes down to a single choice that you might not even be able to make unless you got buddy-buddy with Leland. The story is in more or less the same shape when it comes time for the hypothetical sequel-that-will-never-be.
DA: By comparison, this game varies a lot toward the end. Two of the most long-loyal companions can abandon you, or die, based on your choices. This isn't including other companions that can leave or even die before you ever get a chance to meet them earlier in the game. Based on other choices, the game ends with either the Warden heroically sacrificing himself, or Loghain redeeming himself by sacrificing himself, or Alistair sacrificing himself, or no one dies because a God-child was born instead. The Kingdom is then ruled by a cocky, heart-over-head young Warden, or an intelligent and perhaps a bit devious Queen, or the Warden himself, depending on other choices. In all these various endings, the story being told is subtantially different. In fact, I would (and have) argued that depending on how you play, the game can very-much play out as a tragic stroy about Loghain's fall and redemption. If you play another way, Loghain is just a whiny little cunt that gets his head cut off by an even-whinier cunt-who-would-be-King. I don't think there's anything nearly as drastic, story-change-wise, in AP.
Obviously I did not hate the game, because I was willing to play it more than once, though the second playthrough was mostly out of curiosity, to see how the game reacts to a vastly different approach. The result? Pretty unimpressive, honestly. I'd consider the overall experience of AP to be about on-par with the average Bioware offerings like ME1 or Jade Empire.
Here's the deal: I am not a C&C whore. C&C is secondary for me; I can enjoy a linear game, as long as the gameplay is still enjoyable. I also don't mind if the C&C that exists is shallow and plot-oriented, as it is in almost every other game. However, when the core gameplay is as frustrating and sub-par as AP's, then I expect the rest to be exceptional to compensate. The game simply promised far more than it was able to deliver. Your "weapon" is supposed to be choice, yet Obsidian gladly makes most of those "choices" for you.
Radisshu
Prophet
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 5,623
Huh, you've got a point.
I think I reacted more to the C&C because I almost missed G22 entirely during my first playthrough (never met Sis, for example), and was never able to have Albatross as a handler.
The Nasri thing, well, Nasri couldn't really have known that you tranquilized his guards. But Thornton should've mentioned that he did, on the other hand, so your point still stands.
The reason I preferred AP to DA, I guess, is that I preferred AP's intentional B-movie style to DA's failed attempt at grimdark. I still think it's too bad there probably won't be an AP sequel, though, it feels like it carried so much potential.
The Nasri thing, well, Nasri couldn't really have known that you tranquilized his guards. But Thornton should've mentioned that he did, on the other hand, so your point still stands.
The reason I preferred AP to DA, I guess, is that I preferred AP's intentional B-movie style to DA's failed attempt at grimdark. I still think it's too bad there probably won't be an AP sequel, though, it feels like it carried so much potential.
Cassidy
Arcane
Holding Poland for 10 months in Hearts of Iron 2 1938 scenario or dying in the Alphail Brotocols Tutorial. Which is better and why? DISCUSS!!!
sleuthy
Novice
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 2
I played through this game a couple of months ago and I actually really liked it.
The gameplay was solid albeit partially ruined by the lackluster enemy AI, but meleeing and chain shotting everybody was pretty hilarious.
Seeing that this lp is doing alot of decisions differently than I did, I'm intrigued.
The gameplay was solid albeit partially ruined by the lackluster enemy AI, but meleeing and chain shotting everybody was pretty hilarious.
Seeing that this lp is doing alot of decisions differently than I did, I'm intrigued.
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