AoD - Crafting screen

Vault Dweller · May 14, 2005

Link

Crafting screen. Opinions? Suggestions?

Volourn · May 14, 2005

P.S. That means I like it.

Vault Dweller · May 14, 2005

I know. We share an unspoken bond. Like Kreia and the Exile. Only better.

That means I'm glad you like it :wink:

Spazmo · May 14, 2005

Looks crafty. I'd include a little counter in the prereq item spots to show how many of a given component you have. And what menu lets you see what items you can create?

Vault Dweller · May 14, 2005

Either right-click on an item in the inventory or click on the crafting (anvil & tools, 4th button from the right) button on the interface to cycle through available items.

Edit: Anyway, what kinda upgrades you'd expect / want to see?

sirgoanga · May 14, 2005

Looks good. I would separate the "melt" option from the "upgrade" options. Maybe a different color for the "melt" button.

Mefi · May 15, 2005

Superb. I like Spazmo's idea about a counter for components but it's great as it is.

Seven · May 15, 2005

I have a question: I've found that often it takes more time, gold and resources (in game that is) to upgrade an item than to simply buy a comparable item, how goes AOD avoid this pitfall (what I mean is, if I'm going to invest my hard earned experience and gold into crafting then I want some bang for my buck)?

Ismaul · May 15, 2005

Looks great! The crafting system seems very developed.

Are the results somehow randomized/dependant on your skill? I mean, sure you might need say 40 ranks in metal crafting to create a short sword, but does it change something if you do one with 100 ranks? Or even try your hand at it even if you have 30 ranks?

I understand that for some items having variation can be annoying: alchemy in morrowind, you ended up with thousands of different potions doing the same thing. But you usually don't carry a dozen swords with you.

Oh, and can you fail? Or you just get the required ranks and materials and voilÃ ? If there's failing, I guess it should have a purpose. If it only means press that button again until you succeed, I don't think it's worth it.

On a more wide subject, does you skill system allow self-teaching, or do you have to find some master to advance your skills? I really liked the way arcanum handled that. Learning with someone granted you an interesting plus, but not necessary. Maybe that's what your techniques on a parchment are?

And I agree with Seven. Crafting should feel rewarding, but not so important as you'd feel like you're missing something if you don't have ranks in it. Difficult to balance. I guess one way to do that is with upgrades. Having a personalised weapon feels good, even if the bonus is not that much. There's also the question if all the craftable weapons are findable in the game or not. Yeah, that's a though thing to make it work. If you end up finding similar things to what you crafted right after crafting it, it feels lame. Yet, for the non-crafter, always having mediocre weapons isn't fun either. One solution: don't make weapons important at all. :lol:

No one will care, like in Torment...

Vault Dweller · May 15, 2005

Seven said:
I have a question: I've found that often it takes more time, gold and resources (in game that is) to upgrade an item than to simply buy a comparable item, how goes AOD avoid this pitfall

Here are 4 reasons there is crafting in the game:

1) Get better equipment faster and cheaper. Bronze / iron weapons & armor are easily available. Steel & mithril stuff isn't. You have to explore, do certain quests, or join certain factions to be able to get one without crafting. So, crafting, basically, gives you convinient access to such items in exchange for XPs it takes to develop the skill.

2) Even if you find a good item, it may not fit your specialization. Crafting gives you an option to convert any item into ore and make a different item.

3) Some techniques are extremely rare and those who know them charge a lot for such items or may even refuse to sell you one depending on your position in the gameworld. You can craft very powerful weapons that may not be available to your otherwise. Needless to say, -1 AP is a huge bonus that shouldn't be overlooked.

4) You can make a lot of money by crafting and selling stuff. Since the merchant way is in the game, that's a very useful ability.

Does that answer your question?

Vault Dweller · May 15, 2005

Ismaul said:
Looks great! The crafting system seems very developed.

Thanks

Are the results somehow randomized/dependant on your skill? I mean, sure you might need say 40 ranks in metal crafting to create a short sword, but does it change something if you do one with 100 ranks? Or even try your hand at it even if you have 30 ranks?

No. You don't create a short sword, you create an iron short sword, or a steel short sword, etc. That's where the difference between the ranks is. It's easier to make a bronze sword than to make a steel sword.

We have considered at some point to go with different variations (poor, quality, masterwork, etc), but decided not to. Instead, if your skill is 100, and you want to make an iron short sword, for example, you'd be able to quickly add some upgrades that a guy with 30 ranks wouldn't be able to. That's the key difference.

Oh, and can you fail?

No. In this case, failing = instant reload.

On a more wide subject, does you skill system allow self-teaching, or do you have to find some master to advance your skills? I really liked the way arcanum handled that. Learning with someone granted you an interesting plus, but not necessary. Maybe that's what your techniques on a parchment are?

Yep, techniques represented by scrolls are what you learned from someone or found during your explorations of pre-war facilities. "Working with ore" knowledge comes with the skill and skill levels.

Crafting should feel rewarding, but not so important as you'd feel like you're missing something if you don't have ranks in it.

You can do fine without crafting. There are certain benefits of high level combat skills that you may not be able to get if you start spending points elsewhere. I see crafting as an alternative way to gain advantage in combat.

Elwro · May 15, 2005

I like the screen. I loved being a technologist in Arcanum and I think that my first char in AoD will also have high crafting skills.
Maybe I'm dumb, but I'm not sure if I understand why is the "Prerequisites" label where it is now. As I understand the term, it should point to things that are required to make the upgrade. But the required skill/stat level is to the right, and ore surely isn't a prerequisite for melting a sword into ore. Or is it? And are the scrolls needed for e.g. "Fine Edge Technique" formulas you have to find/buy?

Vault Dweller · May 15, 2005

Elwro said:
But the required skill/stat level is to the right, and ore surely isn't a prerequisite for melting a sword into ore.

Yep, that's a mistake. It's supposed to be a scroll representing the knowledge. I tagged the wrong item, but then I thought that I should leave it in to show a different ore type. I was wondering if anyone would notice.

And are the scrolls needed for e.g. "Fine Edge Technique" formulas you have to find/buy?

Nope. Scroll = knowledge.

In regard to the label, I agree with you. This screen has been changed way too many times to reflect many different concepts. Treat it as "work in progress". In fact, the main reason why I posted it now is to have a crafting discussion (if people care) and then finalize/change the screen based on the results.

So, any thoughts on crafting? What do you want to see? What you don't want to see? What kinda upgrades you want? Any non-combat items upgrade? We can add pretty much anything at this point, so speak now or forever hold your peace (also known as shut the fuck up :lol:

)

Spazmo · May 15, 2005

So, if the scrolls represent knowledge of crafting that you have, they don't get used up when crafting right?

Vault Dweller · May 15, 2005

Nope. I mean, if you know how to sharpen or balance a weapon, you don't need instructions every time you do that. So, the scroll thingy is just a visual representation of "teh knowledge". What do you think?

Walks with the Snails · May 15, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
4) You can make a lot of money by crafting and selling stuff. Since the merchant way is in the game, that's a very useful ability.

Does that mean you can basically buy your way out of trouble the whole game? Sounds interesting if so.

Does crafting take much time, and if so, does time have much meaning? I've always been a bit ambivalent about that, on the one hand it makes sense, on the other it can be annoying.

Vault Dweller · May 15, 2005

Walks with the Snails said:
Does that mean you can basically buy your way out of trouble the whole game? Sounds interesting if so.

More indepth. Being a banker to nobility, controlling factions with money (as in a LOT of money), etc

Does crafting take much time, and if so, does time have much meaning?

No, due to the advances in modern science, it doesn't take any time whatsoever. Time does have some meaning though, as there are timed quests. Timed quests still give you enough time to handle them, they are timed only for plausibility reasons. I always hated those "urgent" quests that you can do 6 months later.

Balor · May 15, 2005

Not bad

Btw, anyone played Evil Islands? It also had nice crafting system.

chaedwards · May 16, 2005

If this game turns out anywhere near as good as your replies and the screens make it look, Vault Dweller, then you're sure to get my money. In fact, Age of Decadence may well be my most anticipated game at the moment - can't wait to actually try it out.

Vault Dweller · May 16, 2005

Thanks for the support. Glad you like what I mentioned so far. We will show a new gameplay screen (we've changed everything since the first screen was posted) and several dialogue sequences soon.

Rulion · May 16, 2005

You'll be sure to get more money if there's sex. Hopefully with cutscenes.

Volourn · May 16, 2005

To add to the merchant aspect of the game; you should be allowed to be a pimp, and/or prositute... :lol:

Perhaps, even win the final encounter against the 'big bad guy' or its equivelant by offering to sleep with him/her in exchange for theme nding their naughty ways.

What a greta idea!

*goes to add this to his mod*

:D

P.S. To be more in line, and more seriosuly, once again I like the screenie. :cool:

Seven · May 16, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
Seven said:

I have a question: I've found that often it takes more time, gold and resources (in game that is) to upgrade an item than to simply buy a comparable item, how goes AOD avoid this pitfall

Click to expand...

Does that answer your question?

Yes actually, that answers my question quite nicely. I especially like how you can craft to make money, most times crafted items cost a lot to make, but then have cheap prices when you try to sell them, so that's good.

Major_Blackhart · May 18, 2005

Great Stuff VD, Great Stuff! When can we expect this wondrous title to ship?

Saran · May 18, 2005

It looks great, like Elwro i loved tinkering with stuff in Arcanum, and im looking forward to messing around with items in AOD.

When you say that you can find rarer components/ingredients by exploring do you mean that we find them on bodies or in chests, or can you mine the materials required?

After all you will run out materials fairly quickly if there is only a limited amount of ingredients in the world, and if the only way to get them is by finding them in dangerous areas it will quickly become repetitive, the idea of farming a part of the map because bandits occasionally drop mithril ore sounds boring. (Sorry if this has already been covered.)

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