Interview Gothic 3 Q&A at GameCloud

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Gothic III; Piranha Bytes

<a href=http://gamecloud.com>GameCloud</a> has posted an <a href=http://gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=1925>interview</a> with <a href=http://www.gothic3.com/>Gothic 3</a> brand manager (it's getting harder and harder to find an actual developer these days. Soon games will be designed and produced by marketing departments) Stefan Berger:
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<blockquote><b>When the time came to create Gothic 3, what were the development team's main goals?</b>
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The main goal is to make the Gothic world even more believable and to give the player more freedom during his missions. So the game will be much more nonlinear than its predecessors. We improved the following three things: pathfinding, AI and NPC behaviour. This are the most important things in a free, living and believable world.
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<b>What locations and settings will we see in the third game?</b>
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Gothic 1 and 2 played only on the small island around the city Khorinis. In Gothic 3, you will play on the mainland. In the north of the mainland there are the icy mountains with lot of snow, in the middle of the mainland is the heart of the kingdom with green grassland and woods and in the south you will be able to find the dessert. In every setting you will find other characters. So in the dessert you will find slavedriver and in the North you will find mighty northland warriors. In Myrtana, the heart of the kingdom, you will be able to find orcs living together with the humans. As you can see there will be a lot of different settings and people in Gothic3.</blockquote>
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Sounds pretty cool. It's nice to see that orcs aren't there only as beasts to kill. Looking forward to this one.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[Twinfalls]

Orcs were presented sympathetically from the first game. Most players first encounter one who is enslaved in the lowest level of the mine, and later you negotiate the assistance of a group of them with the aid of a diplomatic emblem. Though there's plenty of Orc fightin' (especially in number 2 which was a bit much for me, you end up slaughtering hordes of them), they were definitely fleshed out.

 

[crpgnut]

I can't wait to find the dessert I hope it's a banana split. Yum!

I never could get into the Gothic games. I need to give them another try. I think the main reason is that I like playing mages and it's basically impossible to play as a mage from the beginning of the game.
I always lose interest in a game if my main character is forced to be a non-magic type.

 

[Twinfalls]

Can it be a good thing if sometimes a game makes you work your way up to the ranks of magic-users? It could give magic that extra 'specialness' when you get there, and reflect the importance something so amazing as magic ought to have ....

 

[Rina]

Sounds like neat I guess. Now, if only they would add playable female character instead of clinging on their gay-erotic knight fantasies I might actually concider buying that game.

 

[Twinfalls]

The Gothic games follow the travails of the 'nameless hero' who is thrown into an all-male prison camp in the first game. It's extremely gritty - women are thrown in only as commodities to placate the demands of powerful prisoners. There's nothing gay about only being male in this one, it's entirely necessary for the plot and setting, just like you couldn't be extremely old or very young. Making a playable female character would seriously undermine all the back-story.

 

[Balor]

Gay-erotic knight fantasies?
Are you sure you are talking about Gothic?

 

[Rina]

...it's entirely necessary for the plot and setting, just like you couldn't be extremely old or very young. Making a playable female character would seriously undermine all the back-story.

Perhaps it is necessary, for whatever reasons they can throw at us. But they could have thought that in first place when they started making the first game.

Sadly it kills my interest in the gothic series.
Role-playing a male character just doesn't feel right. I can handle it, but it feels just about as retarded as playing a magical shapeshifter pony from another dimension.

But I guess I represent minority with this issue, and it's useless to complain, especially in here.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why "especially in here"? Anyways, I agree with you. While the first game demanded a male hero, there is no need to stick with the same fucking character robbing him of his abilities AGAIN. Having a female character option would have been nice, especially if the game reacted to the gender.

 

[Rina]

Why "especially in here"?

Umm, I just meant that Gothic's official forums would probably be better place for it, if I would want someone to listen. But probably even there it would be rather pointless.

 

[Kraszu]

It is nice that the series is actually evolwing towards more nonlinerality, good dialogues (they was alwys well writen, now you get more choices by them), but i am araid that they will make fight even more easy after all the complains, form ppl who trayed to atack puck of wolfes at lvl1.

For example the huge T-Rex – don’t try to fight against him when you are too inexperienced… Thrust me you will have no chance against him

Gives so hopes throught.

 

[Balor]

Well, while women are a minority when it comes to RPGs, that's for sure, but quite a few RPGs (Fallout comes to mind first) did have ability to choose female role and incorporated some storyline and quest changes in it.
Nothing like that in P:T, yes, but it tells the story about a particular guy (The Nameless One), so making him a man would mean a rewrite of half the story and dialogues. Same goes for Gothics... but, again, if Gothics 3 only has same setting, not the same hero - it's more then viable.

Anyway, Rina, blame your 'co-genders' - if they were as active in playing RPGs as men, it would be viable to spend more effort towards a good implementatoin of female main character, and remake storyline and quests for that.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Anyways, I agree with you. While the first game demanded a male hero, there is no need to stick with the same fucking character robbing him of his abilities AGAIN. Having a female character option would have been nice, especially if the game reacted to the gender.

I agree. I get tired of the same character over and over again. That's one reason I liked the old Shannara trilogy. It went on a generational basis. I mean, once you've saved the world, might as well sit back and enoy it. If such a giant crisis pops up that frequently, it stops seeming like such a big deal. I've only played the demo for Gothic 2, but it doesn't really sound like the character's backstory or personality is all that important. It's the situation, so you could easily substitute someone else.

 

[Twinfalls]

Perhaps it is necessary, for whatever reasons they can throw at us. But they could have thought that in first place when they started making the first game.

That would have been a compromise to the entire setting and also mechanics of the game. It forces you to work your way up in the beginning, and uses the rough, all-male environment to provide natural systems for that.

The thing about Gothic is that whilst having great role-playing features, it is at heart an adventure, albeit with multiple paths. The story and setting are crucial.

I really suggest you actually play Gothic 1. It's very hard to explain, but you will in all likelihood not want to play a female character once you appreciate what the game is all about.

Sadly it kills my interest in the gothic series.
Role-playing a male character just doesn't feel right. I can handle it, but it feels just about as retarded as playing a magical shapeshifter pony from another dimension.

It's hardly role-playing if your character must be the same as you, is it? Trust me, of all the games out there, Gothic really makes the best case for the restrictions it puts in place.

But I guess I represent minority with this issue, and it's useless to complain, especially in here.

You'll find that complaining here can net you some of the most reasonable, articulate discussion anywhere on the web.

Anyways, I agree with you. While the first game demanded a male hero, there is no need to stick with the same fucking character robbing him of his abilities AGAIN. Having a female character option would have been nice, especially if the game reacted to the gender.

You fail to grasp the essential design decisions made in this series. Piranha Bytes have always explicitly stated their intention to take what they see as the 'best elements of rpgs and adventures' for their game. You can argue the semantics of that, but what they are basically saying is that "this game was never intended to be 'all things to all people' ".

Making the hero suddenly become a female would negate all the history of the first two, and would be the sort of kick in the teeth to those who have already - or might in future - play the games from the beginning.

I agree somewhat with the 'robbed of skills again' aspect, but the sheer enjoyment of working your way up the skill trees are such a hallmark of the series that I'm sure it will be as forgivable as it was in G2.

Piranha have a tremendous appreciation of their fanbase, there's a mutual respect there that is very rare. You will never see them make the kinds of changes that Fallout 2 pissed you off with, nor the kinds of things Bethesda have done and keep doing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You fail to grasp the essential design decisions made in this series. Piranha Bytes have always explicitly stated their intention to take what they see as the 'best elements of rpgs and adventures' for their game. You can argue the semantics of that, but what they are basically saying is that "this game was never intended to be 'all things to all people' ".

You fail to grasp the nature of what's being suggested. Nobody's asking to add a decent character system and dialogue trees. The game is what it is. Adding a female character and a few reactions won't go against what the series is all about.

Making the hero suddenly become a female would negate all the history of the first two, and would be the sort of kick in the teeth to those who have already - or might in future - play the games from the beginning.

It's an option. Those who are attached to that guy can play him, those who don't give a damn, can play another character, male or female. What's a big deal?

I agree somewhat with the 'robbed of skills again' aspect, but the sheer enjoyment of working your way up the skill trees are such a hallmark of the series....

Working your way up the skill "trees" (what trees, btw?) is a hallmark of any decent RPG. I'm really surprised that you even brought it up as an argument. Regardless, gaining skills has got nothing to do with the gender and identity of PC.

I'm sure it will be as forgivable as it was in G2

Don't be so sure. G2 at least tried to explain why you have to start all over again. What's the excuse now? Sea sick? Besides, if the character was loaded with personality, I would understand the attachment, but he was the equivalent of vegetable lasagna, so, again, what's the big deal?

Piranha have a tremendous appreciation of their fanbase, there's a mutual respect there that is very rare. You will never see them make the kinds of changes that Fallout 2 pissed you off with, nor the kinds of things Bethesda have done and keep doing.

Hopefully.

 

[LlamaGod]

You start off at like level 3 or 4 in Gothic 3, just so you know.

And I like how wolves would beat your ass at level 1. I guess some people cant handle realistic monster scaling.

You're LEVEL ONE, you're a shitstain in the world. Everything can kick your ass.

 

[Twinfalls]

You fail to grasp the nature of what's being suggested. Nobody's asking to add a decent character system and dialogue trees. The game is what it is. Adding a female character and a few reactions won't go against what the series is all about.

It's an option. Those who are attached to that guy can play him, those who don't give a damn, can play another character, male or female. What's a big deal?

What, precisely, is the big deal in not being able to play as a female?

How about an Orc? Should they let you play as an Orc, too? As I said before, the game is designed as an adventure-rpg hybrid. It is the continuing story of the same hero. Having the hero suddenly be a woman, meet Diego et al and talk about the good times back in the all-male camp where the hero(ine) would have been raped senseless, would be daft. It's not necessary, and Piranha do not feel the need to pander with pointless options.

Working your way up the skill "trees" (what trees, btw?)

Eh? You go down the blade path, you choose between specialising in one-handed or two-handed. There wasn't much to it, I agree, but this is a side argument I'm not getting into.

is a hallmark of any decent RPG. I'm really surprised that you even brought it up as an argument.

It's relevant here as working your way up was particularly well implemented in this series. EG the reputation system with the variation in individual NPCs attitudes to you being so believable. More relevantly, being SO FREAKING WEAK and being treated like dirt for much of phase 1 of the first game was one of its defining features, which made it stand head and shoulders over most other games ever made.

Regardless, gaining skills has got nothing to do with the gender and identity of PC.

And when did I say it did? I raised it only in reference to your point about the character losing his skills again.

Don't be so sure. G2 at least tried to explain why you have to start all over again. What's the excuse now? Sea sick? Besides, if the character was loaded with personality, I would understand the attachment, but he was the equivalent of vegetable lasagna, so, again, what's the big deal?

.

The lack of personality of the guy ain't relevant. The continuation of his identity is highly important in the game-world and story. That's what's relevant.

Piranha have a tremendous appreciation of their fanbase, there's a mutual respect there that is very rare. You will never see them make the kinds of changes that Fallout 2 pissed you off with, nor the kinds of things Bethesda have done and keep doing.

Hopefully.

They've demonstrated this. Example: Gothic 1 lost a lot of sales because of many, many reviews complaining that its controls 'were too hard'. Gothic 2 brought in easier controls, but kept the option of the original control set for the fans. CF Bethesda and its 'No, fuck you lot, we will NOT make the show-me-everything feature of the compass toggleable.

An even better example. You know how most of the gaming press, and most 'casual gamers' found G2 'too hard'. Well, the fans of the series did not, and in fact found it too easy. So what does Piranha do with its NOTR expansion? It adds a shitload more difficulty to the original game.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Re: Gothic 3 Q&A at GameCloud

Sounds pretty cool. It's nice to see that orcs aren't there only as beasts to kill. Looking forward to this one.

Wait, aren't you supposed to complain about the minimal skill list, and the lack of dialogue choices, and the complete absence of a character creation process in the Gothic Series? Do I smell double standards?

 

[Vault Dweller]

What, precisely, is the big deal in not being able to play as a female? How about an Orc? Should they let you play as an Orc, too?

We are talking about being able to play a different human, which is a perfect fit into the setting and the prev games. Playing an orc or a dragon or a supermutant is a different story. There is no logic, no reason, no consistency, no benefits in such decision, not to mention that dialogues would have to be completely reworked. Playing another human doesn't create such problems, but it adds an option which is always nice in an RPG.

It is the continuing story of the same hero. Having the hero suddenly be a woman, meet Diego et al and talk about the good times back in the all-male camp where the hero(ine) would have been raped senseless, would be daft. It's not necessary, and Piranha do not feel the need to pander with pointless options.

Are you Piranha representative, by any chance? 'Cause you are making a lot of statements on their behalf. Anyways, if you recall, in G2 there were some dialogue options for those who didn't play G1 and had no clue who Diego is. Same would work with another character who might have been on that ship and thus might be familiar with Diego and others.

Diego is an interesting character, his "relationship" with the Chosen One isn't.

Eh? You go down the blade path, you choose between specialising in one-handed or two-handed. There wasn't much to it, I agree, but this is a side argument I'm not getting into.

It's the smallest tree I've ever seen then. Must be one of them asian mini-trees.

It's relevant here as working your way up was particularly well implemented in this series. EG the reputation system with the variation in individual NPCs attitudes to you being so believable. More relevantly, being SO FREAKING WEAK and being treated like dirt for much of phase 1 of the first game was one of its defining features, which made it stand head and shoulders over most other games ever made.

True, no arguing here.

The lack of personality of the guy ain't relevant. The continuation of his identity is highly important in the game-world and story. That's what's relevant.

How so? You know something I don't?

An even better example. You know how most of the gaming press, and most 'casual gamers' found G2 'too hard'. Well, the fans of the series did not, and in fact found it too easy. So what does Piranha do with its NOTR expansion? It adds a shitload more difficulty to the original game.

Anybody who's willing to say "fuck off, dumbass" to casual gamers is a hero in my book.

 

[voodoo1man]

After that whole "I'm an all powerful wizard who let you rot in the cave for 4 weeks while your magic armor wouldn't let you die, but you forgot everything an became a total pussy, and oh yeah, I forgot to grab your ph4t l3wt" disaster of an introduction to Gothic II, I really won't care if this time the wizard changes your avatar's sex as a joke or something. If they expand on the Gothic II brothel experience while they're at it, all the better!

 

[Twinfalls]

We are talking about being able to play a different human, which is a perfect fit into the setting and the prev games.

Playing a woman is a 'perfect fit into the setting and the prev games'?? Have we been playing the same games? This series is about being a man, in a man's world. Being a woman is as big a change as being an Orc. Don't you get it? You'd have to put in catcalls, rape attempts, and change the whole flavour of how the NPCs react to you, because it's the 'highly reactive world' atmosphere they've set up which is so central to the game's success. It's not that simple.

There is no logic, no reason, no consistency, no benefits in such decision

-applies to a playable woman option. Once again, it's primarily an adventure, with a continuing story, a continued character.

It is the continuing story of the same hero. Having the hero suddenly be a woman, meet Diego et al and talk about the good times back in the all-male camp where the hero(ine) would have been raped senseless, would be daft. It's not necessary, and Piranha do not feel the need to pander with pointless options.

Are you Piranha representative, by any chance? 'Cause you are making a lot of statements on their behalf.

No. Always love that line though. One need not be a 'Piranha representative' to see the obvious truth of my comment. They don't make no bullshit compromises just to widen their appeal.

Anyways, if you recall, in G2 there were some dialogue options for those who didn't play G1 and had no clue who Diego is. Same would work with another character who might have been on that ship and thus might be familiar with Diego and others.

The key distinction is that you were nonetheless the same character. The options just explained the backstory if you didn't know it. They did not make allowances for a different character. They do not want to do this (no I do not work for them, it's just obvious).

Once again, your asking them to make changes the basis for which you still haven't explained.

Diego is an interesting character, his "relationship" with the Chosen One isn't.

So? It's not about Diego. It's about continuing the story as the same character.

It's the smallest tree I've ever seen then. Must be one of them asian mini-trees.

It ain't the size of the tree in these games, it's what they do with it. Whatever features may be 'small' in the Gothic series, they've always got humungous cojones attached.

It's relevant here as working your way up was particularly well implemented in this series. EG the reputation system with the variation in individual NPCs attitudes to you being so believable. More relevantly, being SO FREAKING WEAK and being treated like dirt for much of phase 1 of the first game was one of its defining features, which made it stand head and shoulders over most other games ever made.

True, no arguing here.

LOVE that about G1.

The lack of personality of the guy ain't relevant. The continuation of his identity is highly important in the game-world and story. That's what's relevant.

How so? You know something I don't?

Well, I know the game wants you to continue being that character, in the same overall setting. And I also know that Piranha make their games for the fans of the entire series, first and foremost. Those fans want to be the same guy. Go to their boards and you'll find no argument on this point.

An even better example. You know how most of the gaming press, and most 'casual gamers' found G2 'too hard'. Well, the fans of the series did not, and in fact found it too easy. So what does Piranha do with its NOTR expansion? It adds a shitload more difficulty to the original game.

Anybody who's willing to say "fuck off, dumbass" to casual gamers is a hero in my book.

These guys have done it repeatedly.

And made money doing it. :D

 

[elander_]

GOTHIC III BROTHEL EXPERIENCE!!!

 

[kingcomrade]

Well, while women are a minority when it comes to RPGs, that's for sure, but quite a few RPGs (Fallout comes to mind first) did have ability to choose female role and incorporated some storyline and quest changes in it.

Yeah, the lesbian sex in Fallout 2 was great, especially considering I was like 12 when I first played the game. See, adding in the other gender makes things better for everyone! Also, where do you think the Night Elves would be on World of Warcraft if you couldn't play as chicks?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Re: Gothic 3 Q&A at GameCloud

Wait, aren't you supposed to complain about the minimal skill list, and the lack of dialogue choices, and the complete absence of a character creation process in the Gothic Series? Do I smell double standards?

No. It's a different game that follows a different direction and does many things that TES games don't.

The Gothic games are story-driven (perhaps, too much) and focused on a small number of NPCs and your standing with them. Your choice is also important as you can't join all 3 factions :wink: That's where those games shine. The character system is god-fucking-awful, of course, but it was improved in G2, and hopefully, would be developed even more in G3.

TES games are all about interacting with the world (the playing in a sandbox thing), and a very limited skill system in OB is much more unforgivable than it is in Gothic.

Lastly, I criticized Oblivion not because they don't have my favourite skill, but because it's a dumbed down game, because DF set great standards that have been dismissed and ignored in favor of flashy (or not so flashy according to some screens) graphics.

 

[geminito]

Daggerfall also had "flashy graphics" for its day. It was Doom and an RPG rolled into one. Elder Scrolls games have always been on the leading edge of graphics.

But Daggerfall went for quantity of features rather than polish and quality. It was the Fallout 2 of the ES series. Bugs bugs bugs. The opinion of Daggerfall in its day was "Great RPG with potential, but be warned that the bugs could ruin your experience." I vote for fewer features and better stability like Morrowind. Oblivion is somewhere between Morrowind and Daggerfall, so we'll see how it works.


Gothic 2 was an adventure game for me. The Gothic 2 wilderness was stunning. Best environment evar!! I really felt like I was in the bush and was afraid of monsters jumping out at me. When the sun was coming down, I booted it back to a place to rest the night because my nerves can't handle things jumping at me in the dark. I jumped out of my seat many many times. That's what Gothic 2 was for me. The RPG element was minimal, but that's ok.