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Game News Suebi faction revealed for Total War: Rome II

Whisky

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Tags: Total War; Total War: Rome II

The latest Total War: Rome II faction has been revealed, the Suebi. Located to the North-East of Gaul, they are stated to be, "masters of forest warfare and plundering."

0029905.jpg
 

Akarnir

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Yeah but actually they kinda handle them in a more orginal way than the stereotype barbarians.

From the pictures, the article... It seems like they went for a more realistic way :
They are human, so they can be smart, they can have a lot of hindsight , they can come up with pretty good strategies... They are simply limited by their lack of organization (due to geopolitical stuff) , and lack of knowledge because of lack of their lack of interest in learning science stuff (partly due to the fact that they aren't organized enough to make any relevant technological stuff).
That feels more authentic. Way more authentic that what the corporate jews merchants were showing us in Gladiator.
 

Akarnir

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Looks better than their Brits, but I'm too spoiled by Europa Barbarorum factions.


They should have put a picture of the chariots for the iceni. that would have help convince people that they may be interesting.
There could have been a better choice, the iberians for example, or one more eastern. Or those Dacian guys. But they feel like they are some kind of mix between german and gauls : a step into civilization, another into wildness.
And their starting position is one of the only place that allows turtling. And a turtling faction was necessary.
 

SCO

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Barbarian is as barbarian does, all of those tribes/civilizations were maligned by the romans. They even minted coins (not a revolutionary idea, considering greeks had them 700 years earlier, but still...).
 

Akarnir

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Barbarian is as barbarian does, all of those tribes/civilizations were maligned by the romans. They even minted coins (not a revolutionary idea, considering greeks had them 700 years earlier, but still...).

I believe it comes from an idiotic vision our 19th century dumbass historian gave us. Vision that is relayed by equally stupid historian authorities, who have no experience whatsoever of an archeological field, and too focused on studying their ''classical'' civilizations.

Civilization is a concept much more older than 2000 BC, and the greeks didn't invent shit, it was already there long before they build Athen. Therefore it is falsely assumed that some innovations weren't widespread way before the greeks made any contact.

Thanks to archeology now we are slowly refuting these outdated ideas, but lack of budget and technology makes it hard to uncover stuff that is already mostly decomposed.
 

spectre

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The one true question everyone should be asking at the moment is, are they proud and fierce people?
 
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Brayko

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I don't know bros based off of the PC Gamer article it's looking pretty streamlined. They haven't even improved diplomacy all too much either. It doesn't look like Creative Assembly is ambitious enough to make something other than "Stupid persons Paradox" games.
 

Akarnir

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Allow me to politely disagree.
Each Total war game installment (except the empire debacle) is a step forward in AI and diplomacy, which allows you to actually use this strategic dimension correctly for once. Shogun 2 was the first to finally give us decent diplomacy, that was acutally worth something more than just cease-fire to win time.

As for streamlining, I don't see them taking away any feature to make the game less complex. Unless ''awfull diplomacy'' is a complex feature because it makes the other nation less ''predictible''.

They are finally introducing a decent topography system (actual cliffs) which will add more strategic possibilities, and take us closer to an accurate antiquity battle reconstitution (which the total war serie is, at it's core).

I've been following closely the devellopment of this game on TWC and there's nothing like dumbing down, in fact it's the opposite.

CA is not perfect, but I've never seen a compagny that has decided to put so much effort in historical accuracy this time. The scale is impressive, and from Jack Lusted posts you can see that they are working their ass off to come up with accurate sources to depict the soldiers and fighting style of each civlization.

They could go all hollywood on it, like they did in the old Total Wars, but they are trying to be honnest this time. And I find it amazing that they put so much effort in depicting each culture.

From a strict archeological and historical perspective, CA is acutally at the frontline of innovation. Their take on Carthage, is actually the most accurate and precise reconstitution of this ancient city in the world. No museum, archeological center, documentary... Is going to give you a better version.
Even better, they will be the first one in the wrold to make the effort of reconstituting a whole 3D celtic/germanic town. Knowing most of the discoveries in that field are super recent, that's highly innovative.

Maybe I'm just a simulation fag, but I find that pretty awesome.

It's easy to create a map painting simulator, it could have been done in the 80s. Now the real challenge is to model 700 and more units, based on professional historical data, and simulate entire antique settlements in detail, which has never been done before. Not to mention the naval warfare.

That won't be a perfect title, they won't be 100% accurate when it comes to history (the average idiots wants to see his gladiator unit), AI will be frustrating, but they are the only compagny that's been pushing things so far in so many domain. I do not know of any other games of this scale when it comes to the depiction of ancient warfare.

And they've been continuously improving in those fields, making the experience more accurate, more complex, more fluid. I've been playing a few competitive Shogun 2 Battle, and it's clearly a better experience than the previous title.
 
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Brayko

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We'll see. Right now I'm getting Skyrim vibes from this development; sleazy, big budget, and easily eaten up by retards. I hope to be proven wrong here. Just because the game is amazing for the first few hours doesn't mean it's a great game, but that's when big reviewers place scores, when the excitement is high and hindsight is non-existent. I just like games that are built for the long haul and actually require learning to find the fun. :)
 

Akarnir

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We'll see. Right now I'm getting Skyrim vibes from this development; sleazy, big budget, and easily eaten up by retards. I hope to be proven wrong here. Just because the game is amazing for the first few hours doesn't mean it's a great game, but that's when big reviewers place scores, when the excitement is high and hindsight is non-existent. I just like games that are built for the long haul and actually require learning to find the fun. :)

I hope too.
I see what you mean.

One thing we can be sure of, is that SEGA wants this to be a massive success. Because they are in deep shit and are focusing on 4 big franchise : Sonic, Football Manager, Aliens and Total War.

However, I don't think they'll ever manage to drag the retarded crowd. And The marketing experts at the headquarters would be aware of that.

From my personal experience on the big total war forums, and on IRL friends, Total War does not appeal to the Skyrim/COD/Dragonage... Popamole crowd.

I assume The demography is mostly History nerds (there was always at least one in your high school class), who wants to play a game in their favorite era with their favorite civilisation. This isn't the worst demography, and I believe most of them are in for a complex, difficult experience. And especially the most faithful one (faithful being relative to their own amount of knowledge), and who gives them the most liberty (=not much dumbing down).

This concords with the fact that they are giving a lot more attention to historical authenticity. If they were targeting the retarded crowd, they would make Gladiator material.

I highly doubt the 12 years old or retards will ever pick a total war title, no matter how dumbed down it is. At it's very core, it's a specific niche, and unless they transform it in a FPS, it won't change.

But I may be over optimisitc here. I hope not. But I see no evil for the moment.



EDIT : The one thing that is at risk here is our money. SEGA will milk the hell out of us. Expect Faction DLC, pre-order exclusive faction, unit pack... All the way. :keepmyjewgold:
 

Internet

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Some elements of old total war games were totally worth streamlining. Princesses for example only served the purpose of slowing the AI turns.
 

Dayyālu

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Allow me to politely disagree.

They could go all hollywood on it, like they did in the old Total Wars, but they are trying to be honest this time. And I find it amazing that they put so much effort in depicting each culture.

From a strict archeological and historical perspective, CA is acutally at the frontline of innovation. Their take on Carthage, is actually the most accurate and precise reconstitution of this ancient city in the world. No museum, archeological center, documentary... Is going to give you a better version.
Even better, they will be the first one in the wrold to make the effort of reconstituting a whole 3D celtic/germanic town. Knowing most of the discoveries in that field are super recent, that's highly innovative.


That won't be a perfect title, they won't be 100% accurate when it comes to history (the average idiots wants to see his gladiator unit), AI will be frustrating, but they are the only compagny that's been pushing things so far in so many domain. I do not know of any other games of this scale when it comes to the depiction of ancient warfare.


Hm. Can you link some of this 'historical accuracy' on TWC? The images of Carthage are quite hilarious (50 foot tall Zeus of Artemision- weird Temples- Gladiatorial Graffiti). Roman screenshots shows structures that Rome did not built for centuries from the game starting date . I will assume good will, so I'm truly curious if they did some work on ancient topography or if they got in touch with archeologists/historians this time.

For example, their main consultant for Japanese history was Stephen Turnbull, I think. Not the best historian on the subject, if I can trust some people I know that like Japanese history (not my cup of tea, so I cannot say).

And I disagree. TW are for the 12 years old interested in History- I got my first Total War game around that age. And I enjoyed the hell out of it.

I found Shogun 2 mightily boring- same units, poor planning, slow battles, abysmal AI (I did not played Empire and Napoleon, so I assume they're similar)- it's cool to see your Ashigaru units doing crazy fatalities on enemies, but that should be the icing on the cake. Not the main selling point.
I did not see a better AI or more complexity (MED 1 tech trees were far moar complex than Shogun 2, if I remember right), they simply made the 'POINT WHERE EVERYONE ATTACKS YOU' a gimmicky and annoying mechanic.

And the assassination movies where far less funny than Shogun 1 or MED 2. God, I missed those.
 

JarlFrank

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There are some faults that are pretty obvious if you're into ancient history and archaeology, but it's true that they're spending a shitload of effort on actually modelling ancient cities halfway accurately. And this time, the units look more like the real thing than guys with kitchen knives wearing hollywood costumes. Of course it's not gonna reach the same level of historical accuracy as Europa Barbarorum did - I do wonder how much they're stealing getting inspiration from that mod - but it looks way, way better than I would ever have expected from them.

So what if there's the Forum Iulium in 300 BC, yes it's incredibly ahistorical but at least they put a real historical stucture there rather than just making a city that looks ancient.
 

Zarniwoop

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One thing we can be sure of, is that SEGA wants this to be a massive success. Because they are in deep shit and are focusing on 4 big franchise : Sonic, Football Manager, Aliens and Total War.

I'm not sure what their strategy is, really. Let's not forget, they also recently bought Relic, makers of the most :obviously: RTS of recent times, which is also pretty much a niche game and unlikely to appeal to the crate-sticking, awesome-buttoning, quick-time-eventing tard demographic.

Combine that with the legendary failure that is Colonial Marines, they pretty much have to push something out for the "mass market" to generate some big sales. I just hope it's not R:TW2 or TW:R2 as they insist on calling it now. Or COH2 either for that matter.
 

Akarnir

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Hm. Can you link some of this 'historical accuracy' on TWC? The images of Carthage are quite hilarious (50 foot tall Zeus of Artemision- weird Temples- Gladiatorial Graffiti). Roman screenshots shows structures that Rome did not built for centuries from the game starting date . I will assume good will, so I'm truly curious if they did some work on ancient topography or if they got in touch with archeologists/historians this time.

And I disagree. TW are for the 12 years old interested in History- I got my first Total War game around that age. And I enjoyed the hell out of it.

I found Shogun 2 mightily boring- same units, poor planning, slow battles, abysmal AI (I did not played Empire and Napoleon, so I assume they're similar)- it's cool to see your Ashigaru units doing crazy fatalities on enemies, but that should be the icing on the cake. Not the main selling point.

Currently my Uni IP blocks TWC, which means I need to use proxy and stuff, so I can't give you a good link for the specific threads. Try to lurk the Total war center forums, and in the stickies of Rome 2, you'll find some info (not all).

The complaint about rome is not necessarely valid : the game spans over centuries, from -270 to 0AD and later. Therefore some of the buildings showed make sense. Also, Rome is about rewriting history, so if you are even more succesful than the IRL romans, you will build the colosseum earlier.

As for carthage, Of course they are making up stuff : the entire city was razed, and they've explained the data available is limited. They are still the first in the world to attempt a full scale 3D reconstitution of it.

There are countless threads on TWC comparing the Carthage city with available data on the old settlements. And it seems CA depiction stays pretty authentic. Even the nitpicky members that complaints about the legionary's sandals don't bother whining.

So yes, you are right to assume good will :) , and they have been hiring historians, apparently, and they went pretty specific = celtic/germanic architecture.

It won't be perfect, but needless to remind, they have made significant progress in those fields. Rome 1 was a cliche, retarded depiction of antiquity. From the faction description you can already tell that they've abandonned the hollywood stereotypes.

Indeed TW is for the 12 years old enjoying history. Just like it's also for the 20 year old enjoying history. Overall, there are no statistics available.
But considering it's PC exclusive, and it takes a pretty solid computer, I would be inclined to say that the demographic is much older than usual popamole (on a pure logical, proportion standpoint).

Pretty much everyone studying classical history and playing computer games, at my Uni, knows about this franchise. Hell, our ancient warfare teacher uses Rome Total War screenshots and vids in his class.

And they haven't been showing any decline along years. Shogun 2 AI sucked, Rome 1 and Medieval 2 AIs sucked even more. Rome 1 diplomacy was awful, shogun 2 diplomacy was decent.

Battles were slow in shogun 2. That was an error on their part, but in no way an attempt to dumb things down. They also confirmed they would increase the speed of battles in Rome 2, which confirms its no decline trend.

About the boring units, well it was Japan, and SEGA didn't bothered giving them much budget (because they knew ASIAN culture wouldn't sell as much as Europe culture anyway). But they are promising 750 units, which would be the highest number. In that case it's an incline trend.

Not to mention, no more rebel faction : 51 different faction, each with their own diplomacy, captital and culture. Which could potentially add a huge dimension that was missing. Again another incline.

And the whole faction families that you must chose (more depth). And also the improvement of the battle map topography (as seen in PC gamer). And the fact that arrows physics are now fully realistic (except wind), which would allow you to think more logically when it comes to taking them into account. And some combat physics are also improved (better physics = more logical thinking, when it's not eye candy).

Overall, I'm optimistic. And I'm usually always ranting and pessimistic.
 

Dayyālu

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Ya know?:bro:

I want to believe. Looked for a while, seems they're trying, at least.

Let us hope that my ATI be enough to run this. Got no money to upgrade if it's too old.

If that's the case, do a LP with some Greeks, Akarnir;).
 

tuluse

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I like the slower battles :oops:. Of course, I'm mainly speaking about fighting other humans. The Total War battle AI has always been terrible, I don't think I've ever lost a battle where I wasn't outnumbered at least 2-1 and just got mobbed.

Avatar mode was the most fun I've ever had with a total war game, with 1 problem there were not enough mid range players. You start off fluctuated between getting your ass handed to you by 10 star generals or crushing idiots who don't know what they're doing. Then you progress to the midway point when you have a 5-8 star general, and the idiots go by the way side and it's just people who are much better at the game or have grinded to the point where they have a 10 star. Either way all you are fighting are 10 stars at a certain point. Which is kind of lame.
 
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Brayko

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Battles were slow in shogun 2. That was an error on their part, but in no way an attempt to dumb things down. They also confirmed they would increase the speed of battles in Rome 2, which confirms its no decline trend.

Hold it right there!

Battles in Shogun 2 were way too fast and the killrates were insane. It was very arcadey and felt streamlined. Most people who thought that Shogun 2 improved in several ways generally agree that the battles were ridiculous. Jack Lusted confirmed that the battle speed will be slower in Rome 2, which is I hope what you meant.
 

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