Game News Age of Decadence March Update

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Age of Decadence; Iron Tower Studios; Vault Dweller

The new development update on Age of Decadence concerns itself mainly with the changes the team plans to implement after having gathered lots of feedback since the public demo has been released. Here's a snippet:

1. MORTAL COMBAT

It has come to our attention that combat is way too difficult for the masses. And not the "I cried when Aeris died" masses but the allegedly hardcore masses (probably the very same people who whined that Shadow of the Horned Rat was too difficult).

It goes without saying that we want people to play our game instead of reloading in frustration. Frustration is bad for your cholesterol and we don’t want to see kids suffer, but unfortunately – or fortunately – it's not universal. We have 2 camps now:

- “the difficulty is great, please don't change a thing!”
- “combat is impossible; rage-quitting is my only option!”

… which makes it very hard to decide what to do. I don't think the difficulty slider is the answer. So, first, we'll try a few things and see if the work.

We gave you 5 (five!) extra points at chargen. You can either put them in combat, which should make it easier or, if you're happy with combat's difficulty, put them in a secondary skill.

The main issue, in my opinion, is that you were stuck with default equipment in the vignette fights. Now you can hit the store first and buy yourself something nice.

Defense is king at the moment, which is what makes the difficulty so brutal, and, coincidentally, makes CON a dump stat. You either get hit a lot and 10-20 extra hit points won't make a difference, or get hit rarely and don't need extra HP. So…

When even the hardcore masses (Neverwinter Nights, KotoR, The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol etc) think that combat is too hard and how the fuck do I reload a crossbow, I think it's safe to assume that the system is - must be - broken. Glad to see them working on it.

 

[empi]

When even the hardcore masses (Neverwinter Nights, KotoR, The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol etc) think that combat is too hard and how the fuck do I reload a crossbow, I think it's safe to assume that the system is - must be - broken. Glad to see them working on it.

You are really funny sir, good job!

 

[Excidium]

I found the combat issues to be usually related to poor design instead of difficulty balance, but eh...at least they're looking into it. The addition of an Arcanum style shop in the beggining of the game is cool.

 

[Mrowak]

Well, that was to be expected. Personally I think the reason combat in AoD can be frustrating stems from the simple fact - the entire grid system, the chance to hit/miss, all the dodge/block abilities are seemingly made for a tactical squad-based game, not for the one in which you control one character.

In squad based games when my character fails a roll, then tough luck - maybe another char will succeed. In AoD one bad roll can make your single character a mincemeat - so you have no area to make up for bad luck or tactical errors. This encourages powergaming and reusing tactics.

Even when you get companions they do the most basic retarded shit. I don't really get why anyone wouldn't want a full control of characters in combat in a tactical RPG.

IMO, AoD 2 should ditch single-character fights and go for a party of 3-4 chars facing 7-12 opponents of various skills, classes and equipment. This way we could make more out of admittedly promising system in AoD.

Edit: I noticed a lot of changes in skillchecks. I approve most of them, specifically:

• We changed the multiple skills checks. Now the sum and min value are checked, which should eliminate situations where the checks were asking for 52 in persuasion and 37 in streetwise, for example, and you had 55 in persuasion and only 36 in streetwise. We're adding more of these "synergy checks" now, which allows us to check the general investment in groups of checks (speech checks, for example), instead of a particular number for a particular skill.
• We’re rounding up the single skill checks to 5 points increments, to make them more intuitive. Intermediate points still matter since they are useful for synergy checks.
• Stats affect the skill checks require in many checks, specially the single ones. So a high charisma thief will have a lower check compared to a low charisma one.
• We are adding more intermediate outcomes to the checks. For example, the majority of the Critical strikes checks now have more outcomes than "kill or be killed".

However, I have doubts about:

We're removing the tags; I believe they contributed to “metagaming” a lot.

It is something I argued for myself, but I still wanted to let the player know where the conversation might be heading, and which skills might be useful in the next step (not the current one). You see in AoD it's sometimes problematic to discern whether the character relies on [Trade] or [Persuassion] or [Streetwise] (which is especially true in Thief questline).

 

[circ]

When even the hardcore masses (Neverwinter Nights, KotoR, The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol etc) think that combat is too hard and how the fuck do I reload a crossbow, I think it's safe to assume that the system is - must be - broken. Glad to see them working on it.

Well, when a merc with sensible merc stats gets pulverized by an assassin wearing leather armor that somehow soaks up more damage than leather armor sold elsewhere, and his measly bronze dagger does as much damage as some of the later big mob fights, 9 times out of 10, you gotta wonder what the fuck is going on.
Especially since if you just up your str to 10, and pump all your SP into your chosen weapon, that thing's a cakewalk.
To mention one example.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It has come to our attention that combat is way too difficult for the masses. And not the "I cried when Aeris died" masses but the allegedly hardcore masses (probably the very same people who whined that Shadow of the Horned Rat was too difficult).

Hahaha lol very funny out thar, it's like SotHR is considered one of the hardest fucking games in existence, amirite, while it's all real ez you just gotta know who the game plays from start to finish and it all OK

 

[curry]

When even the hardcore masses (Neverwinter Nights, KotoR, The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol etc) think that combat is too hard and how the fuck do I reload a crossbow, I think it's safe to assume that the system is - must be - broken. Glad to see them working on it.

I'm glad Brian Vince swallowed his pride and took my advice.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

When even the hardcore masses (Neverwinter Nights, KotoR, The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol etc) think that combat is too hard and how the fuck do I reload a crossbow, I think it's safe to assume that the system is - must be - broken. Glad to see them working on it.

Well, when a merc with sensible merc stats gets pulverized by an assassin wearing leather armor that somehow soaks up more damage than leather armor sold elsewhere, and his measly bronze dagger does as much damage as some of the later big mob fights, 9 times out of 10, you gotta wonder what the fuck is going on.
Especially since if you just up your str to 10, and pump all your SP into your chosen weapon, that thing's a cakewalk.
To mention one example.

You're definetely right with the first assassin/mercenary fight. However that's one badly balanced encounter (which got beefed up shortly before release, formerly it was perfectly reasonable). I agree that this encounter forces you to spend your stat points in a manner you might not want to because otherwise you can't win. I don't like that. It was probably not the smartest thing to start the game with such a fight before you can get better or different equipment and a few more options.
However, most combats provide good challenge while still being perfectly doable.

 

[hiver]

Great stuff! Thats the way to go!

KICK IT UP A NOTCH! BAM!

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I don't think the difficulty slider is the answer.

Ever hear of the phrase - "don't reinvent the wheel"? No? Well, nevermind then...

 

[CappenVarra]

Good progress

I just remembered another thing: I would really really appreciate being able to see ally health level in fights ("healty", "wounded" etc., just like you can do with enemies).

Now, I'm greedy and would love a Fallout-style "Examine" command usable everywhere, but I can see how adding a bunch of hotspots might sound like too big of a change... but at least in combat, it would help adjust group tactics a lot (ok, player tactics in group situations, whatever).

 

[Noddy]

• We’re rounding up the single skill checks to 5 points increments, to make them more intuitive. Intermediate points still matter since they are useful for synergy checks.

Please don't do this. Turns it into a 1-20 system with 5 meaningless tiers in between

 

[Pope Amole II]

Change in THC formula - heck, it would be good if you bothered to show it. I mean, for oldschool RPG, the game is hiding its formulae too much and you can't really build your char if you don't know what the stats mean exactly. One of the reasons that people are baffled by your game so much is that you haven't even bothered to produce a decent manual (and your skimpy FAQ in the game and on the ITS forums doesn't count - good oldschool manual shows mechanics of the game, not brief description).

Change in CON - too small. CON is a dump stat not because hit points are useless, I dunno how it goes for block build, never tried one, but for dodge build HPs are pretty useful, it's just that the game demands so much that you can't spare any points for it, you really need the elsewhere.

Nerf of perception - extreme retardation. EXTREME RETARDATION, I say. PER already contested with INT heavily (extra skill points compensate for missing +% to hit), but now, outside of some quest usage, it probably became useless. Well done, well done. As for the STR, it shouldnt've been buffed, a simple multiplier to the regular buff (depending on the weight of the weapon, obviously) would've been enough.

Lovering the damage techniques - erm, why? They're hardly overpowered.

Reworked INT - looks much better than it is now.

Combined checks are nice and it would be great if more checks became combined, that would lessen metagaming requirement.

Remowing tags is stupid, though - yay to extra reloads!

 

[hiver]

I certainly like this, overall.
I dont think having a difficulty slider is really needed, although it wouldnt bother me since i would play it - the way its meant to be anyway-.

The rest is really great. Especially expanding options for different builds and adding more optional solutions (and consequences) to quests where appropriate.

Naturally, im all for removing tags from skill checks, both in opening lines and answers you get. As i explained in that post.
I wasnt sure should i even suggest removing them from player dialogue options ... thats why i suggested a kind of other type of measure in just showing several options rather than just those attributed by skills we chose.

However im really glad to see this is being thought about.

Now, dont forget to add appropriately difficult combat encounters for those that were proficient even in this public beta first release, so they dont feel nerfed.
But i generally see how combat plays better and more fluid even now - judging by those reports posted.

maybe i should add a caveat or two here, not to be misunderstood.
1. i dont think my suggestions are amazing
2. i dont expect that they are all considered, not to mention implemented
3. i just add and say what i see and leave it in the threads to be considered or not, without any special requirements, expectations or premeditation or any silly motives


Feels great to see you guys are firmly on the ball and actually thinking ahead most of posters.

- I see money on the end of this rainbow now, i really do. Keep going.

 

[Grimlorn]

In squad based games when my character fails a roll, then tough luck - maybe another char will succeed. In AoD one bad roll can make your single character a mincemeat - so you have no area to make up for bad luck or tactical errors. This encourages powergaming and reusing tactics.

My thoughts as well when it comes to this kind of combat. If one of your party members fail then you can adapt your tactics to that and have your other members fill in for that gap.

Perhaps if there were more viable tactics options it would be better. I'm not sure. Also maybe I'm getting some bad rolls, but AOO seems to go off way too much. I've gotten hit 3 or 4 times from the same person while moving away. Not sure if some kind of stat affects that. I think it'd be better if it were limited to once per character in range personally.

 

[Kaol]

I'm liking most of these changes, the only thing that concerns me is making STR more powerful.

All my best combat builds are currently 10STR and thats with the curent system. That said in reality strength is perhaps the most important attribute for a fighter.

I like the changes to dialogues, checking the combined scores of skills in multi-skill checks is an improvement as is removing the stupid tags.

I like the idea of more intermediate outcomes of skill checks and changing the dialogue option depending on your skill level would be superb as you could guage how

 

[felipepepe]

We're removing the tags; I believe they contributed to “metagaming” a lot.

I like this change, great way to remove "skillpoint hoarding" and boost replayability, as you will create a new char to see all his options, not just reroll a streetwise bro to choose option X that your previous character didn't have enough streetwise to follow.

The biggest problem, however, was the way checks are presented. Most checks are always shown. You always "say" the same line, but if you're short a single point, you fail and sometimes die. Thus the focus is not on the line, but on the points. Now, we're considering something like this:
on appear:
aod.etiquette < 32 - "I'm sure he can testify..."
aod.etiquette >= 32 - "My Lord, I don’t presume to advise you, but perhaps, my perspective on the situation, no matter how flawed, could be of value to you?"

Fantastic addition, I just hope the massive work this will cause don't delay the game much...keep the good work bros!

 

[Emily]

Oh damn, i only worry that this will delay it even more... : ((

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Well combat was the more exciting part to test i guess, but no word about tech?
Me and some other dude strongly suggested to use screen short cuts to also close them. Also allow to jump to other screen immediately.

ex. i -> inventory, c -> jump to character, c - close character screen. It's lighting fast and clean, bringing joy to browsing your specs/gear/quest/map.

Allow saving between major events (i guess it will be possible when you stop teleport directly from the dialog).

Performance is also not that good, i am on low settings and it still runs slow. Moving the camera drags and scrolling lags. Laptop with Geforce M105, Intel T6600 CPU, 3GB RAM.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

Why should Vince "swallow his pride" if he listens to feedback? Is he making this game solely to boost his own ego, for you? Maybe he does it, y'know, to bring a fucking game liked by the """"hivemind"""".

I don't want Wasteland 2/ArmA III to be the only things to brood over. I want to love AoD and say, in 2022 "You fucking kids don't know anything! AoD was the shit"!.




...but seriously, yes, the feedback is being treated with intelligence, not leniency. I hope you'll reach the golden formula soon, VD & co.

 

[curry]

Why should Vince "swallow his pride" if he listens to feedback?

Because when the demo public beta was released, he at first kept insisting that nothing needs to be fixed and people are just noobs if they can't appreciate his "masterpiece". I guess he eventually realized I was right all along.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

Why should Vince "swallow his pride" if he listens to feedback?

Because when the demo public beta was released, he at first kept insisting that nothing needs to be fixed and people are just noobs if they can't appreciate his "masterpiece". I guess he eventually realized I was right all along.

Where did he say that? In the release thread? I didn't read it much, I wanted to play right away. I'd love to read the very words - or words that can be paraphrased as such.

 

[deuxhero]

Yeah, default equipment was a big problem. Make sure you can craft in this screen though.

 

[Tigranes]

Curry's just being curry. What Vince did say was that Day 1 immediate "game too hard" feedback is worthless; more nuanced feedback coming from subsequent playthroughs are listened to. I don't agree the former is worthless and it was one of those times where him being confrontational had no real benefit, but hey, random forumites getting butthurt and thinking AOD patching is some sort of war is even more idiotic.

I think initial +5 and equipment shop itself will reduce a lot of complaints, and I'm eager to see whether the revamped skillcheck system makes big changes to the experience or not.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

Curry's just being curry. What Vince did say was that Day 1 immediate "game too hard" feedback is worthless; more nuanced feedback coming from subsequent playthroughs are listened to

As I thought.