Game News Will Jeff Vogel Pay You to Play His Games?

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Jeff Vogel; Spiderweb Software

<p>For the time being Jeff Vogel decided to make his games cheaper and <a href="http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/10/why-all-our-games-are-now-cheaper.html" target="_blank">explain why</a>, but one day it could come thus far.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>People Who Write Niche Games Can't Charge a Dollar</strong></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>If you're making a pretty, shiny, highly casual game with cartoon squirrels and you think you can find a million fans for it, go ahead. Charge a dollar. You'll have to.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>But if you write games like mine? Low budget, old school, hardcore RPGs with lots of content? If I charged a dollar for it, I'd have to sell a copy to pretty much every interested human everywhere to have a chance of making money.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>So I still charge an actual price, an amount of money that still feels like money. Maybe I should have taken everything down to $15. Maybe I'm being too timid in the price drop. But, in a sense, that difference doesn't matter.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>There are two sorts of prices you can pay for a game: An amount that is so small you don't care, and an amount high enough that you do. Our newest game, Avadon: The Black Fortress, is $20 on our site and $10 on Steam. That's a big difference, but, in a very real sense, they have the same price: an amount of money that actually feels like spending money. We will always charge actual money, as opposed to pocket change. All I have done is slightly tinkered with the level.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><em>Thanks, Davaris.</em></p>

 

[Achilles]

Avadon was on sale recently but I skipped it. I kind of regret it, I feel like I should be supporting the guy since I did enjoy some of his earlier games.

 

[Metro]

Not sure what the topic is meant to infer. He's just waking up to the reality that is today's market -- wouldn't call that desperation.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Avadon was on sale recently but I skipped it. I kind of regret it, I feel like I should be supporting the guy since I did enjoy some of his earlier games.

I bought it when it was on sale for like 3.50€. Don't know if selling his games on Steam for such prices really works out in the end but maybe the numbers make up for it.

 

[Davaris]

Not sure what the topic is meant to infer. He's just waking up to the reality that is today's market -- wouldn't call that desperation.

The most interesting part for me was this:

The shift to free games is arguably the most stunning development in the games biz in a very long time. My prediction: Within five years, there will be a successful game that pays you a small amount to play it and makes their cash selling better swords or whatever.

Casual game makers have been racing each other to the $$$ bottom, ever since portals came into being, but now they are thinking about paying people to play? And I know Jeff isn't coming up with these ideas on his own. He is taking advice from a professional.

IMO free to play will change the way games are designed from the outset. The design will be focused on getting as many people as possible, to buy in game content as a seamless component of game play. Ka-ching!

If the makers get it right, it will be as profitable for them as gambling machines.

 

[Spectacle]

I don't mind free2play game makers milking their customers for all they're worth, I just hope there will still be a room for traditional buy2play games. Chess has coexisted with Poker with no problem for centuries, I hope it will be the same for our kind of games.

 

[curry]

Vogel has jumped on the bandwagon and is DUMBING DOWN his games. Fuck everyone who gives him ANY money

 

[Achilles]

Don't know if selling his games on Steam for such prices really works out in the end but maybe the numbers make up for it.

The main advantage in a sale, at least judging by the way it influences my buying habits, is the extra visibility it gives to the game. For instance, I have Avadon on my wishlist but I had all but forgotten about it until I saw it again in the sale. I think that a very low price helps when you're trying to attract new customers, ie have the game be bought by people who wouldn't normally do so.

 

[Mastermind]

Not sure what the topic is meant to infer. He's just waking up to the reality that is today's market -- wouldn't call that desperation.

The most interesting part for me was this:

The shift to free games is arguably the most stunning development in the games biz in a very long time. My prediction: Within five years, there will be a successful game that pays you a small amount to play it and makes their cash selling better swords or whatever.

Casual game makers have been racing each other to the $$$ bottom, ever since portals came into being, but now they are thinking about paying people to play? And I know Jeff isn't coming up with these ideas on his own. He is taking advice from a professional.

IMO free to play will change the way games are designed from the outset. The design will be focused on getting as many people as possible, to buy in game content as a seamless component of game play. Ka-ching!

If the makers get it right, it will be as profitable for them as gambling machines.

Will change? That pretty much sums up every facebook game out there mang, and they have pretty big audiences at that. Particularly the girly ones who are swarming with middle aged women.

 

[sea]

Obviously, Jeff Vogal has never heard of the glorious thing we call "microtransactions".

 

[Dorf]

Charging two radically different prices for your product is a quick way to piss off your customers, at least the ones that pay 20 dollars.

I could understand a small price difference because of distribution and retailers. You sell your product for X amount of dollars to Walmart, or Target, and they turn around and sell if for X+Y amount of money. We all understand the reasoning behind paying 1-5 dollars more, or less, of a product because of maybe when, or where, we buy it.

Now in Vogel's situation he is knowingly selling his product for two different prices just because of where you buy them, and the ONLY reason anyone would pay more is because they just didn't know they could get it cheaper. His reasoning of why people would voluntarily pay more is so nonsensical it doesn't deserve to be argued away as moronic. On the internet there is no concept of place, or location. You can be anywhere on the internet with a few keystrokes. You don't have to drive across town and accept to pay more at one location because they have a bigger selection and in the end it saves you time by paying a little more. What time is saved paying 10 dollars more because you were too lazy to type in a different web address?

Okay, this is like pricing the same product in your store at 10 dollars and 20 dollars, and then putting the 10 dollar item on the left side of the store and the 20 dollar item on the right side of the store. If the customer happens to get lucky they get a cheaper price. If they are too lazy to walk around your whole store and only look at the right side they pay more. It is arbitrary and dumb.

In the end you are just ripping off your customers because they are ignorant or too lazy to do a google search. What a dumb idea.

 

[tindrli]

i think that he talks too much

 

[ortucis]

I think F2P is great. I have been playing LOTR Online for some time now and as a free player I have been tempted a LOT of times to reach for my credit card and purchase a thing or twenty.

Too bad for Turbine that I am a cheap bastard who has a patience of a fucking rock tied to a dead T-Rex burried under a mountain. I keep picking those precious Turbine Points to purchase stuff instead. :D

Oh and I see so many impatient people join in and ask for this and that feature (F2P players) and they just end up paying for them making Turbine the precious moolah. These people keep developers in business and it's a good thing. F2P is a win-win for everyone when done right.

 

[shihonage]

I usually like Vogel... mostly. But this rant of his didn't seem to be very focused.

Sure, if you make the same retarded indie shovelware as everyone else (behold, quirky humorous dude jumping over quirky humorous bunnies until he reaches edge of the screen!), your catfood will come from the same disgusting bowl everyone else is slobbering it from.

But if the product has quality... if it offers something appealing and fresh... then people will pay. This will never change.

 

[Metro]

The guy needs to realize his games aren't worth over $20 no matter how much he thinks they are. The justification people like him whip up is that 'oh hey, these AAA games are selling for $50/$60,' well, they aren't worth anywhere near that either.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

mr vogel isn't thinking out of the box enough

surely the industry can think of some way for gamers to pay NOT to play certain games

ah but meltdown sir, I hear you bleat, convenience bonus and queue jumping microtransactions exist already mr meltdown sir

that would be paying not to play so that you can play more of the bits you want to play, cretin

what I'm talking about is to forgo the experience of entire games completely

it would probably entail mandatory gaming quotas which would in itself necessitate the intervention of corporations over personal liberty, but I never said this was going to be easy

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The guy needs to realize his games aren't worth over $20 no matter how much he thinks they are. The justification people like him whip up is that 'oh hey, these AAA games are selling for $50/$60,' well, they aren't worth anywhere near that either.

Seems to me that the point of the post is that he does realize it, but he can't really charge "pocket money" because it's a niche product. He either charges "real money" or he begins making Diner Dash style games.

Not sure what the topic is meant to infer. He's just waking up to the reality that is today's market -- wouldn't call that desperation.

Not today's market, it was always like that. If not many people want your stuff, you have to charge more for it or it isn't worth the bother.

 

[Destroid]

I think F2P is great. I have been playing LOTR Online for some time now and as a free player I have been tempted a LOT of times to reach for my credit card and purchase a thing or twenty.

Too bad for Turbine that I am a cheap bastard who has a patience of a fucking rock tied to a dead T-Rex burried under a mountain. I keep picking those precious Turbine Points to purchase stuff instead. :D

Oh and I see so many impatient people join in and ask for this and that feature (F2P players) and they just end up paying for them making Turbine the precious moolah. These people keep developers in business and it's a good thing. F2P is a win-win for everyone when done right.

F2P is a plague upon game design, as is any other business model that relies on post-purchase transactions. The objective is no longer 'make the best game we can' but becomes 'make the game that sells the most hats'. Likewise with MMOs they are designed to stretch their content for as long as possible in a giant time sink.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

F2P is a plague upon game design, as is any other business model that relies on post-purchase transactions. The objective is no longer 'make the best game we can' but becomes 'make the game that sells the most hats'. Likewise with MMOs they are designed to stretch their content for as long as possible in a giant time sink.

it may be a plague on game design but parting people with their currency in the name of transient subjective pleasure is an evergreen industry, and designs there are improving all the time

try seeing the bright side of human endeavour eh

 

[Davaris]

surely the industry can think of some way for gamers to pay NOT to play certain games

You, Sir, are a genius.

The mark of genius is not following the ball around, it is getting in front of the ball and being there to meet it. We should suggest your brilliant idea to Mr Vogel and his adviser.

 

[ortucis]

F2P is a plague upon game design..

No it isn't.

The objective is no longer 'make the best game we can' but becomes 'make the game that sells the most hats'. Likewise with MMOs they are designed to stretch their content for as long as possible in a giant time sink.

MMORPG's are all designed this way but the content isn't forced on you. Like I love the crafting part in LOTR but ignore hobbies (stuff like fishing) unlike other players who love to spend time with them. Content is there for all kind of players. It is all meant to be a time sink else we would all be playing a SP RPG with 20hrs gameplay then moving on. Lets not forget that unlike SP games MMOs have updates which add content to the older areas even. Being a time sink is a good thing about MMO. I don't know what you are expecting out of them (people pay for them for a reason).

While we're at it Turbine just released a large expansion (Isengard) and the items which I have purchased so far are actually adding more to gameplay. People paying for even new clothes to full blown quest packs doesn't break the game anyway. Developers are have already added hundreds of hours worth of quests in the game and even the basic fetch quests in LOTR have been surpringly less annoying than other RPGs I have played.

 

[Azrael the cat]

F2P is a plague upon game design..

No it isn't.

The objective is no longer 'make the best game we can' but becomes 'make the game that sells the most hats'. Likewise with MMOs they are designed to stretch their content for as long as possible in a giant time sink.

MMORPG's are all designed this way but the content isn't forced on you. Like I love the crafting part in LOTR but ignore hobbies (stuff like fishing) unlike other players who love to spend time with them. Content is there for all kind of players. It is all meant to be a time sink else we would all be playing a SP RPG with 20hrs gameplay then moving on. Lets not forget that unlike SP games MMOs have updates which add content to the older areas even. Being a time sink is a good thing about MMO. I don't know what you are expecting out of them (people pay for them for a reason).

While we're at it Turbine just released a large expansion (Isengard) and the items which I have purchased so far are actually adding more to gameplay. People paying for even new clothes to full blown quest packs doesn't break the game anyway. Developers are have already added hundreds of hours worth of quests in the game and even the basic fetch quests in LOTR have been surpringly less annoying than other RPGs I have played.

Anyone feeling like betting whether 2 yrs from now Orticus is saying 'FUCK, why did I spend so much time on that fucking MMORPG!!! I dropped out of college for that fucker@! Why did I think it was a good idea to quit my job because it conflicted with my guild's raiding schedule!!!'

 

[ortucis]

Anyone feeling like betting whether 2 yrs from now Orticus is saying 'FUCK, why did I spend so much time on that fucking MMORPG!!! I dropped out of college for that fucker@! Why did I think it was a good idea to quit my job because it conflicted with my guild's raiding schedule!!!'

Haha, actually I already got bored of it (95% generic quests, I just focus on the main quests which forward story). I just go back to craft new items and auction stuff after skirmishing with my kinships every now and then for an hour or two.

Still, I at least now know why people like MMOs and what the hell is this F2P thingy all about. Going to give that City of Heroes a go as well.

 

[Morkar Left]

It's a big difference if I have a free2play mmorpg or singleplayer games that are designed to play by buying content. And there is a big difference if a formerly monthly fee based mmo turns to f2p or if it's designed as f2p right from the start. The later one will have inherently derp gamedesign that focuses only on moneygrabbing. I don't know how this will make games better. Here is the latest example: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=64942

 

[Shadi]

wait... Why DOESNT he sell on steam/gamersgate ?