Preview Kharn's PC Peek at Avadon

[Jason]

Tags: Avadon: The Black Fortress; Spiderweb Software

<p>GameBanshee <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/previews/102399-avadon-the-black-fortress.html" target="_blank">spent some time</a> with a beta PC build of <a href="http://www.spidweb.com/avadon/index.html" target="_blank"><strong>Avadon: The Black Fortress</strong></a>.</p>
<blockquote>There are three branches for each class: battle, power, and utility. "Battle" tends to be direct damage and combat skills, "power" features a range of passive supporting skills, and "utility" sports a variety of boosts and curses. Each class has two "top" skills, which always root into the power branch, as well as either the battle or utility branch. For example, the Shaman has an earthquake skill rooting into battle and power, and a higher-level summoning skill rooting into power and utility. Specializations unlock at levels 7, 15, and 25, but rather than unlocking new skills, each one gives passive +1 bonuses to one of the three branches.</blockquote>
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[VentilatorOfDoom]

That said, with a simpler RPG system coupled with a brand new and accessible setting

The RPG system is simpler and the setting accessible? Why, it sounds wonderful. How is the enemy-exploding?

 

[laclongquan]

Heroes of Might and Magic series utilize the 3 branch of skills. And not just them but lots of other games use that. Latest is King's Bounty series with their Mind/Magic/Might skills.

 

[Azrael the cat]

That said, with a simpler RPG system coupled with a brand new and accessible setting

The RPG system is simpler and the setting accessible? Why, it sounds wonderful. How is the enemy-exploding?

I'm not too worried about the 'simplification' of the rpg system. From the details given it seems to have been 'simplified' in a sensible fashion. Fallout 1-2 is an excellent example of an exceedingly simple and welcoming rpg system (or would be if the skills were balanced), in that you make only general character commitments at the start of the game, and define your character's skills as you go, allowing players to learn the skills and perks 'on the fly' rather than having to map out their exact character path at the very start (though you still need to 'build' towards some perks - and similar requirements seem to have been implemented in Avadon as well - you don't need to commit to it at level 1 character creation).

That can be contrasted with 2nd ed AD&D as implemented in the infinity engine games. There, you need to commit to the entire character concept, skills and all, from the moment you make the character. If you want your rogue to be a bit more melee oriented, you need to decide that by selecting the appropriate kit straight up. You want a dps-oriented fighter, you better have understood the builds before you started playing. And the stats have such a 'hard relationship' to combat that you also need the right stat build before you start playing - compare to Fallout where the 'soft' stats (i.e. offset by skills) allow you to beef up or down your emphasis in different elements (combat, stealth, diplomacy etc) as the game goes on.

Not that the infinity engine was hard or anything, and I used to really enjoy the metagaming of 2nd ed on computer, for much the same reason that the system sucked as a PnP system (counter-intuitive strategy like the ability to plan out absurdly overpowered teams by dual-classing characters while others take the slack while waiting for the first class to re-activate). But I can certainly see why developers would prefer a system that you can learn as you go, and games like FO1-2 and Deus Ex show that you don't need to make the system retarded in order to do that. From the info that we have so far, Avadon seems more in the category of 'learn as you go, but not overly streamlined', rather than 'take all the choice out to make it 'welcoming''.

More worrying, in my view, is the overview given of the game's story and implied linear route. In later Spiderweb games (and even the better early ones, like Geneforge 2), one of the strength was the massive freedom given to you, and the diverse use of the map where different factional choices would have you chasing different end-game goals across different parts of the map. You'd have a very broad 'order of progression', usually by continent, but there were always multiple territories/maps that could be chained together to get through, making each one optional (if one area is decidedly unfriendly for your faction, or your build, or your companions refuse to go there, there's always a couple of other territories you could try going through instead). The preview made it sound a lot more like a Bioware 'get the 4 star maps', with freedom of progression being constrained for plot purposes. I'm fine with that if the writing is good enough (see: Planescape: Torment - and note, linear regional progression shouldn't mean linear quests or linear maps, as the better parts of that game illustrate), but I just don't think Vogel is a good enough writer for it to be worth it. Even if this is Vogel's best written game, as the reviewer seems to indicate, I'm just skeptical that 'the best possible Vogel writing' is a good trade off for 'the best possible Vogel world design' - I'm a storywhore and I certainly don't play Vogel's games for the writing (though the settings are usually pretty awesome - again, seems to be a decline in that category).

I'll still purchase it, probably on day 1 as well. Even a massively crappified Vogel game beats most on the market. But it would be a pity if some bastard has given him a loan and let him finally make that fucking awful Biowarean game of his dreams that he keeps posting about, rather than the excellent games that he makes rent with usually.

 

[Brother None]

I'm not too worried about the 'simplification' of the rpg system. From the details given it seems to have been 'simplified' in a sensible fashion.

Sort of. The idea of the system isn't the problem. But it's got too little in the way of skill and class variety, and the classes are too restricted. Add in the companions all being one of the four classes and it all starts feeling pretty damn restrictive.

More worrying, in my view, is the overview given of the game's story and implied linear route.

It is very linear. You go out from Avadon, you return, get a new quest, go out, unlock new areas, return, rince and repeat. There's a side-quests and companion quests but it's, if anything, more linear than Avernum. You can't unlock new world map areas yourself, they have to be unlocked by an NPC, almost always during the main quest.

There's a lot of choices to make, but then at the end it seems like you can pretty much about-face and suddenly switch sides. I scorned one of the options throughout my playthrough, and I think it had an impact at the end, but I could still decide I suddenly wanted to be against the other side.

And often enough, when you think you have a choice, like either egging your companion on to attack or telling him to wait...well turns out both dialog options have the same result.

In other words, Avadon is BioWare-inspired through and through.

I'm still in the process of reviewing but so far, this doesn't strike me as Vogel's best. It's still good though, but after Avernum 6 it's a bit of a letdown.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Has the combat system improved?

 

[SuicideBunny]

In other words, Avadon is BioWare-inspired through and through.

too bad. that pretty much kills it for me.

 

[Micmu]

Looks like the first spiderweb game I'll pass.

 

[quasimodo]

Has the combat system improved?

 

[Azrael the cat]

I'm not too worried about the 'simplification' of the rpg system. From the details given it seems to have been 'simplified' in a sensible fashion.

Sort of. The idea of the system isn't the problem. But it's got too little in the way of skill and class variety, and the classes are too restricted. Add in the companions all being one of the four classes and it all starts feeling pretty damn restrictive.

More worrying, in my view, is the overview given of the game's story and implied linear route.

It is very linear. You go out from Avadon, you return, get a new quest, go out, unlock new areas, return, rince and repeat. There's a side-quests and companion quests but it's, if anything, more linear than Avernum. You can't unlock new world map areas yourself, they have to be unlocked by an NPC, almost always during the main quest.

There's a lot of choices to make, but then at the end it seems like you can pretty much about-face and suddenly switch sides. I scorned one of the options throughout my playthrough, and I think it had an impact at the end, but I could still decide I suddenly wanted to be against the other side.

And often enough, when you think you have a choice, like either egging your companion on to attack or telling him to wait...well turns out both dialog options have the same result.

In other words, Avadon is BioWare-inspired through and through.

I'm still in the process of reviewing but so far, this doesn't strike me as Vogel's best. It's still good though, but after Avernum 6 it's a bit of a letdown.

Fuck. That sounds like the exact reversal of everything I loved about the Geneforge series. As in literally, if someone was trying to troll me by creating an 'anti-Geneforge 5'. I'll expect this game will sell well on the back of existing customer base alone, but I have doubts as to whether he'll maintain his success if he stays with this direction for future games. A game with C- graphics, but that creates a gameplay that is found nowhere else in current gaming could well have more market space than one with B+ graphics, but that is a close immitation of plenty of games with AAA+ graphics.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Too bad he had to go full retard. He was one of the last decent cRPG developers.

 

[Brother None]

Has the combat system improved?

It's the same as in pretty much any Spiderweb. If anything, it's a bit worse: it's easier, which is partially a result of the system: hit points are a lot easier to recover than vitality, so if you don't want to constantly trek back and for to the transportation pillars (where you recover all VI), you want to save up VI for difficult encounters. Meaning you just whack at enemies until they're dead. Works perfectly for the standard encounters.

That said, the encounter design takes on improvements from Avernum 6. Like that game, there's not a lot of filler and trash mob fighting, and a lot of interestingly designed combat encounters.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Has the combat system improved?

It's the same as in pretty much any Spiderweb. If anything, it's a bit worse: it's easier, which is partially a result of the system: hit points are a lot easier to recover than vitality, so if you don't want to constantly trek back and for to the transportation pillars (where you recover all VI), you want to save up VI for difficult encounters. Meaning you just whack at enemies until they're dead. Works perfectly for the standard encounters.

That said, the encounter design takes on improvements from Avernum 6. Like that game, there's not a lot of filler and trash mob fighting, and a lot of interestingly designed combat encounters.

 

[Mangoose]

Is the story even any good? Sounds like I might as well just play Avernum 6.

 

[Brother None]

Is the story even any good? Sounds like I might as well just play Avernum 6.

The setting is pretty standard, compared to Avernum/Geneforge, and the story somewhat straightforward, but it's meaty, lots of politicking and interesting characters. The writing is really, really good, while the story is "just good", if you know what I mean.

Avernum 6 had a fairly good story too but not this good. Otherwise it's a better game.

 

[Annonchinil]

I just completed the Avernum 6 demo, can't get into the area with the great portal unless I register.

Is the rest of the game wroth it?

So far my only real complaint is the map and my inability to orient myself, but I have always been horrible with maps.

 

[Brother None]

You can probably best answer that question yourself. Spiderweb's demos are huge and give an accurate picture of the game. It doesn't get much better or worse. The scale of fights and quests becomes bigger but otherwise it's the same. So just figure for yourself if it's a game you want to keep playing.