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Trash reviews Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem

Jason

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<strong>[ Review ]</strong>

<div align="left">Trash gets some train tickets to Arnhem and reviews Matrix Games' <a href="http://www.matrixgames.com/products/386/details/Close.Combat.-.Last.Stand.Arnhem">Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem. </a></div><div align="justify"><blockquote>Combat takes into account the individual and entire force morale of your troops, as well as training. Your troops will be equipped with different armaments and supplies for these weapons. Alongside infantry you'll have tanks, APCs, mortar teams and field artillery. You'll see soldiers rout, surrender, go berserk, scavenge for weapons and ammo and perform brave deeds. The more experience they have, the better they fight and the less likely they are to break under pressure. To help your troops along you'll have units containing commanding officers which usually boost the performance of the troops around them. It's quite fun to see a battalion grow from a group of soldiers with some basic training to hardened and decorated veterans and makes losing them to enemy fire all the more painful</blockquote><a href="http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=69">Read on for the full review.</a> </div><br/><br/><strong>Read: </strong><a href="http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=69">Trash reviews Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem</a>
 

Luigi

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Reviews for experienced players are a waste of time but for newbies this one does not include the mechanics of the game.

Omits shitty view range finding which didnt change since day the milking machine started running.
Also that the lack of usable pause to give commands is according to them a feature.
Dont know about Arnhem and how the speedup fares compared to the maps size.
Same horrible engine from day1 that does not do collision detection and as always half your squad can be inside the house and the other half sticking through the wall.
Same horrible engine cant even remotely suggest elevation. No way no how. So you have to stick with the manual, literally line! of sight.

I would rather give Kotick money for free than buy Close Combat Nr 27.

Considering the hate Total War gets for being the same shitty game that it is, this review can be rightfully declared as cocksucking.
 
In My Safe Space
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Luigi said:
Reviews for experienced players are a waste of time but for newbies this one does not include the mechanics of the game.

Omits shitty view range finding which didnt change since day the milking machine started running.
Also that the lack of usable pause to give commands is according to them a feature.
Dont know about Arnhem and how the speedup fares compared to the maps size.
Same horrible engine from day1 that does not do collision detection and as always half your squad can be inside the house and the other half sticking through the wall.
Same horrible engine cant even remotely suggest elevation. No way no how. So you have to stick with the manual, literally line! of sight.

I would rather give Kotick money for free than buy Close Combat Nr 27.

Considering the hate Total War gets for being the same shitty game that it is, this review can be rightfully declared as cocksucking.
I agree with everything except the usable pause thing. If anything, it should be harder to give orders (with delays and stuff like that) in RTSims than easier.
 

Luigi

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But they provide the "really slow running time" feature. I dont have problems giving orders in that one. But I usually play on the setting one step lower than the max and would like to pause and give orders instead of slowing down the time because my vague memory suggest that there is no "jump to lowest speed" hotkey, you have to hit the "slowdown" hotkey multiply times.
 
In My Safe Space
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Take in account that Close Combat is practically a multiplayer-only series. Time manipulation wouldn't be practical.

Anyway, what's the point of slowing down time? Soldiers have their own AI and it's not like the AI isn't retarded.
 

Trash

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Reviews for experienced players are a waste of time but for newbies this one does not include the mechanics of the game.

It does.

Omits shitty view range finding which didnt change since day the milking machine started running.

What?

Also that the lack of usable pause to give commands is according to them a feature.

A design decision. Teh horror.

Dont know about Arnhem and how the speedup fares compared to the maps size.

What?

Same horrible engine from day1 that does not do collision detection and as always half your squad can be inside the house and the other half sticking through the wall.

Bull.

Same horrible engine cant even remotely suggest elevation. No way no how. So you have to stick with the manual, literally line! of sight.

What?

I would rather give Kotick money for free than buy Close Combat Nr 27.

Sure.

Considering the hate Total War gets for being the same shitty game that it is, this review can be rightfully declared as cocksucking.

Gobble gobble.

Thanks for the valuable insight.
 

MetalCraze

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Luigi said:
Considering the hate Total War gets for being the same shitty game that it is
No my dear stupid friend. TW gets the flak for becoming shittier than it was.

I couldn't care less about Close Combat, just clarifying.
 
In My Safe Space
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Trash said:
Omits shitty view range finding which didnt change since day the milking machine started running.

What?

Trash said:
Same horrible engine cant even remotely suggest elevation. No way no how. So you have to stick with the manual, literally line! of sight.

What?
No grid, no heighmap, no los tool in a 2D game where height of terrain isn't clearly shown. All that stuff was complained about by players and reviewers since a decade ago.
 

Trash

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The maps in the remakes are clear enough on what's elevated and what's not due to the improved graphics and art production. This is especially the case in LSA which plays in the Netherlands. A flat country where the only differences in elevation come from dikes, canals, buildings and the like. When in doubt on the LOS remember that troops cannot look through obstacles like heavy woods and buildings. Easy. When still in doubt check the LOS through the attack pointer.

It's a remake, not a reinvention of the genre and indeed not groundbreaking. It does however offer a solid Close Combat game with an interesting campaign, lots of diverse units and some nice overall improvements.
 

Luigi

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Mechanics
Cover, visual cover, morale, ammunition, penetration values, armor, range. Half of them mentioned in a sentence that could as well be a fluffy description.

Your troops will be equipped with different armaments and supplies for these weapons. Alongside infantry you'll have tanks, APCs, mortar teams and field artillery. You'll see soldiers rout, surrender, go berserk, scavenge for weapons and ammo and perform brave deeds.

Thats it? Could have at least mentioned how they are represented in the game, how they work. Maybe a fucking screen or two?

View range
is only checkable by using the los line! and moving your fucking mouse all around the lost (haha pathfinding) panzer to find out what he can see and where he cant shoot. This didnt change since fucking 1995! Neither the pathing nor the los tool.
People have complained about it since the dawn of time! But they keep selling this turd for 50 bucks. Its a fucking skinjob on CC1.

Pause
First of all, shitty design decision. Second of all, its not in the review! Not even the speed control.

Speedup
Huge maps require big speedups. CC does not provide that. Max setting is too slow.

Soldier collision detection with walls
If I find out that it is possible for a soldiers squad to stick through the wall of a building in Arnhem and be attackable, will you suck my dick if I drive over to Amsterdam? Cause if not, I am not downloading it, since in CC4 and 5 they do walk through walls and take cover outside...

My bet is, this is the same issue they have with pathing for armor. The walls are somehow badly represented internally as is the armor.

Elevation and LOS
Again, only cock gobbling fanboy would defend this usability failure as a-ok. Especially since the games are sold at full price since 1996 but I am repeating myself. Only manboons never learn.

The review is bad. Deal with it.



No my dear stupid friend. TW gets the flak for becoming shittier than it was.
Taking a break from Kotor, huh?
 

Luigi

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Not hard to do in 15 years.

commandos2mocps2_004-large.jpg
 

Trash

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Ah, you want pretty 3d graphics and for the game to run faster to suit your add needs. That's nice.

Unit and armor pathfinding has been working just dandy since Cross of Iron btw. If you want to talk shit at least know what the fuck you're bitching about.
 

zool

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Trash said:
Unit and armor pathfinding has been working just dandy since Cross of Iron btw.

I wouldn't say that but it seems the latest patch has finally overhauled how the engine deals with pathfinding, resulting in a much better armor behavior.

You didn't say anything about the over-accurate mortars vs AT guns problem. Didn't you find that it seriously unbalances the game (especially in multiplayer where the opponent knows how to use his mortars)?
 

Luigi

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Trash said:
Ah, you want pretty 3d graphics and for the game to run faster to suit your add needs. That's nice.

:facepalm:

The jury on pathing is still out.
zool here thinks, that pathfinding wasnt working as intended till the latest patch...
 

Trash

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Mortar's versus artillery is one of the balance issues that seem to come and go as they fiddle with the values in the patches. It was bad in Cross of Iron untill the last beta patch and I haven't seen it half as bad in LSA.

And pathfinding has been working fine since Cross of Iron. Doesn't mean the AI always knows how to use the units though. Again, in LSA this has improved quite a bit. As always though, get the latest patch.
 

Burning Bridges

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Hi Trash.

I think your review does not adress that the campaign in all these new games is very much different from the one in Close Combat 2 - A Bridge Too Far.

You simply brush it off that the new one is "superior" and I highly question that.

In the original Close Combat 2 the campaign was an almost perfect, tightly balanced struggle with very limited resources. You had to hold out until reinforcements would arrive. It was like that no matter if you play the Germans or the British at Arnhem. The difference was only wether you had to capture and hold the bridges, or blow them up.

All the newer games (CC4, CC5 and all the remakes I have seen) have turned this into an absolutely mindless, grindy affair. I found that so pointless that I have lost interest into the new games altogether, since they all use this system.

Finally, I think the series has only spiralled downwards since Close Combat 2 - A Bridge Too Far (1997), and should rest in peace.

Luigi said:
But they provide the "really slow running time" feature. I dont have problems giving orders in that one. But I usually play on the setting one step lower than the max and would like to pause and give orders instead of slowing down the time because my vague memory suggest that there is no "jump to lowest speed" hotkey, you have to hit the "slowdown" hotkey multiply times.

I remember I used to play Close Combat 2 - A Bridge Too Far on the slow setting. Hasn't it been there from the beginning?
 

Trash

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Do I brush it aside as superior? It's different, that is for sure but I do not recall saying that it is better. It is good though.

In CC2 you could quickly end up fighting the same battle turn after turn in which an enemy battle group would attack from the same position time after time again. Turning it into a dull grind. Mind you, that was the only drawback to it for me but it is not something you'll often see happening in this campaign.

The campaigns in the remakes apart from COI have not interested me in the least for the reasons you already gave. LSA however has a campaign in which you are constantly pressed, no matter what sides you pick and in which taking and holding key positions like the bridges over the varied canals is tantamount. The allies start out strong but as the campaign rages on the Germans get increasingly more and better troops. This together with the narrow scope of the campaign (a funnel leading to Arnhem) means that you'll be pressed constantly wether you play as Axis or Allied.
 
In My Safe Space
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I hate the CCIV-V campaigns because they keep jumping between two different levels of command. And Atomic has added a whole new game atop of the close combat part instead of improving the tactical gameplay.

Luigi said:
Pause
First of all, shitty design decision.
:retarded:

Luigi said:
Soldier collision detection with walls
If I find out that it is possible for a soldiers squad to stick through the wall of a building in Arnhem and be attackable, will you suck my dick if I drive over to Amsterdam? Cause if not, I am not downloading it, since in CC4 and 5 they do walk through walls and take cover outside...
They added impassible walls in CCMT. Half of soldiers would get lost inside of buildings, some would get stuck, so they took it out in Wacht am Rhein. Also, they wouldn't put most powerful weapons at opening, so units inside of buildings would lose a lot of firepower.

Trash said:
Unit and armor pathfinding has been working just dandy since Cross of Iron btw.
:retarded:

Trash said:
a solid Close Combat game
It's an oxymoron.
 

Trash

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It has. Try to move a tank in one click from one side of the map in any CC prior to COI. Now do it again in COI.

And if you don't like the CC games then there is nothing here for you to like. LSA is a new CC game with a good campaign and some nice improvements but still a CC game through and through. Not much else to say about that.
 

Burning Bridges

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To the comparison with the original CC2.

I used to play Eindhoven sector and remember the initial battles were very challenging. For example to defend the Son bridge with a 88 and three or four squads, against a full stack.

Another important thing in CC2 was that you never got any tanks most of the time. So losing a tank was a major blow. On the other hand, knocking one out was pure happiness.

So the question that matters most to me is the battlegroups. Are they usually full complements of 15 (or whatever the limit is), or more usually unbalanced e.g. 5 vs 15 like in the Son example above?

But I agree with you that the battles in the original got repetitive. Like the landing zones that had to be defended time and time again. Perhaps the remake has really improved on that issue.
 

Trash

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Many important sectors like bridges and towns have small compliments of 'frozen' Axis units that you cannot move and that are only removed after being destroyed. Usually they consist of some conscripts and some AA like an 88. Using them to try and stem the allied tide is quite a fun challenge. The moveable battlegroups are usually more balanced but on the whole heavy armor is quite rare (only one tiger in the game as far as I've seen.) and as I said in the review, the battlegroups themselves are rather varied.
 
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Trash said:
It has. Try to move a tank in one click from one side of the map in any CC prior to COI. Now do it again in COI.
I once lost a game in CCMT because a technical got lost on an open field and couldn't find way for 5 minutes.

Also:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... %2Cfinding

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... %2Cfinding

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... %2Cfinding

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... g&#1647273

Also, did they finally allow the AI to fire at sources of enemy fire like players usually do? Did they finally prevent bodies outside the LoS of friendly units from showing up and showing the locations of enemy units? Last CC that I have played (WaR) was still full of exploits like these. This and the brain dead AI It's the main reason why I have moved Firefight despite that it has worse graphics, worse sound, not enough weapon customisation and generally lacks a lot of mechanics.
 

Trash

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At launch a lot of bugs like a tame campaign AI and pathfinding issues were present that were squashed in the first and second patch. Dunno what they did to the AI now to make it more challenging. Every patch has new parameters. It does seem to work out.

Never played CCMT due to the overwhelming concensus that it was a rushed botch job.

Firefight is fun, yeah. Not that the AI is that much better though. There are less parameters in play and most importantly, units have an utter shit viewing range. Meaning that the enemy can even walk up to you in an open field and only show up at the latest moment. Cheap shots like that kinda burned me out on the game.
 
In My Safe Space
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I stopped playing Firefight when I've realised that it will never haver have decent terrain mechanics and decent vehicle combat. And after I've read the forum back to 2004 and saw the same feature requests as now.

Still, in Firefight, when your units start shooting at enemy units, enemy units do what the player does in CC - shoot back at sources of fire which will often suppress them. In CC the enemy has to wait until it spots the units themselves - in CC the player can get several units to shoot at sources of fire, including tanks and mortars.
If preliminary artillery fires are enabled in CC, you can use them to spot enemy units. Again, it's avoided in Firefight.
Small differences like that is what made Firefight more fun than CC to me.

Now I'm playing mainly Armored Brigade - since the modding is enabled I don't have any reason to get back to Firefight (which is to simplified and doesn't give much hopes for future) and CC (which has too many exploits and limitations). It has very system of giving information to player (has a grid, height map, LoS tool, doesn't show muzzle flashes like CC but gives rough guesstimations from where fire comes from - which are usually imprecise or wrong, etc. etc. etc.), nice fire support, cool stuff like vehicle turrets sometimes falling off, variable scale (it's possible to play from a few platoons to a few regiments on map from 2km to 15km) and gets updated a lot.
 

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