Development Info Avadon - Less Healing, Less Walking, & Lower Difficulty

[Jason]

Tags: Avadon: The Black Fortress; Spiderweb Software

<p>Jeff Vogel threw out another <a href="http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2010/09/avadon-developer-diary-3-character.html" target="_blank">developer diary</a> on the changes in store for <a href="http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/avadon/index.html" target="_blank"><strong>Avadon: The Black Fortress</strong></a>.</p>
<blockquote>So in Avadon, you will need to return to town far less often. After battles, your health will return quickly. There are no "mana" or "spell points." Abilities will have cooldowns. When you use an ability, you won't be able to use it again for a certain number of turns.<br /><br />However, as you use more demanding spells and abilities, your fatigue will slowly increase, and when it gets too high you can't use those abilities. However, fatigue really does increase slowly, and there are items that will revive you. The result: Far fewer trips back to town and more time having fun.</blockquote>
<p>Please note the admirable restraint shown in not using the word "popamole" in any part of this newspost.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/">The Bottom Feeder</a></p>

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Please note the admirable restraint shown in not using the word "popamole" in any part of this newspost.

You have a very strong will.
So, Avadon will be Dragon Age with Spiderweb graphics, good to know.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Re: Avadon - Less Healing, Less Walking, & Lower Difficu

The result: Far fewer trips back to town and more time having fun.

more time having fun.

fun.

 

[soggie]

It's official. WoW mechanic sells.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Please note the admirable restraint shown in not using the word "popamole" in any part of this newspost.

You have a very strong will.
So, Avadon will be Dragon Age with Spiderweb graphics, good to know.

 

[Konjad]

I don't think Dragon Age would sell so well with not AAA graphic. He's doing it wrong!

 

[Zeus]

There's a way to refresh the party without potions or return trips to town and still keep the hardcore happy.

 

[desocupado]

As a result, every battle will be the same, because you don't need to save mana for the big guys.

What's next, only 2 types of enemies, like DA, too?

 

[BLOBERT]

POPAMOLE IN YOUR CONSOLETARD FACE VOGEL LOLLOLOLOL BROS

 

[Azrael the cat]

I really don't see how this is an issue in a Vogel type game. Firstly, my impression was that this was more of a Geneforge than an Avernum followup - I'm certainly hoping so - so that means 'huge sprawling C+C-fest' rather than 'huge tactical dungeon-crawl'. The guy makes both, so both camps can like/hate him to the same extent.

But mainly, it doesn't seem an issue because: (1) turn-based means that you can't just wait out a few seconds to recharge, but must still manage your levels for each part of the combat, (2) Vogel has never used respawning enemies outside of specific summoning monsters, and so it has always been possible to just zip back and recharge at an essence pool.

Now, the way that Vogel has traditionally avoided essence-pool-grinding is through heavy use of wandering/patrolling mobs (in later Geneforge games this becomes almost standard - mobs almost always wander within a certain range, and most militarised areas have strategic patrols doing tours, acting as scouts for other groups to flank you, etc). I can't see how that tactic wouldn't work in exactly the same way with turn-based recharging fatigue. Waiting and recharging between each fight would get you pwned if that mechanic was used in the later Geneforge games, as you'd be repeatedly mobbed by wandering monsters, and that's if a patrol doesn't raise an alarm and bring the whole place down on your immobile ass.

If we're just skipping the trip to the essence pool and back, with no other effect, then I don't have a problem with it. The difference with cool-down in real-time games is that it's possible to hide+recharge either during combat, or within a trivial time between combats COMBINED with the fact that your enemies don't share your mobility and rechargability. Dragon Age would have been much much harder if half the monsters (and most of the intelligent monsters) were on patrol paths, and the maps were designed in a non-linear fashion allowing you to get flanked/rear-ended. Also, if recharge is linked to performing a required number of actions/turns, then how is it any different to the many mana-regen items that soon become standard gear in Wiz8?

Personally, I think the ideal is a mix of classes that work on different recharge mechanisms - (like the bard vs other casters in early Wiz8 before you gear up), but it isn't that big a deal.

Though yes, if he added in all the other retarded aspects that we're talking about (2 monster types, smaller/linear world, etc) then yes that would be a big problem.

 

[commie]

Re: Avadon - Less Healing, Less Walking, & Lower Difficu

The result: Far fewer trips back to town and more time having fun.

more time having fun.

fun.

Well I think that's a bit unfair CK. What the fuck else should generic RPG's be for except for entertainment? It's not like you'll get some insightful understanding on the nature of life or the universe from playing a run of the mill fantasy RPG. Isn't it better then to have it more 'fun' and less tedious?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I don't know who failed the Spot check here, you or me

 

[Grunker]

I don't know who failed the Spot check here, you or me

Definetely commie.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The poor kid already reached the stage where he can't tell parody from genuine codexism. BLOBERTification is just a matter of time. We can only hope he doesn't get Volournified.

This forum ruins minds, I tells ya

 

[Konjad]

No, it just draws in broken, ruined, sick minds.

 

[Ruprekt]

There is a

However

.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Great. Now an Indy game is going to use the exact same system. How long until every CRPG is the same? Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse...

From the multitudes of different CRPG types of the 80's to....

Dragon Age/Mass Effect/Oblivion mechanics for all.

Brilliant.

 

[FeelTheRads]

so that means 'huge sprawling C+C-fest'

Does it? I only played the first one, but I fail to see the fest. There are different endings, but apart from that?

LOLZERS. ME I LIEK TO HHAVE DEVELPERS TELL ME WAT IZ FUN ADN NOT. IF VOGAL SAZS ITZ FUN THEN ITZ FUN CLEARLY

 

[Archibald]

Firstly, my impression was that this was more of a Geneforge than an Avernum followup

Why?

 

[commie]

The poor kid already reached the stage where he can't tell parody from genuine codexism. BLOBERTification is just a matter of time. We can only hope he doesn't get Volournified.

This forum ruins minds, I tells ya

Well it becomes instinctive after a while to equate every 'rage' with Skywayism.

LOLZERS. ME I LIEK TO HHAVE DEVELPERS TELL ME WAT IZ FUN ADN NOT. IF VOGAL SAZS ITZ FUN THEN ITZ FUN CLEARLY

Well going back and forth into town clearly wasn't 'fun' among enough of the plebs, so Vogel decided to get rid of that I guess and that's what he was meaning. I know it wasn't Codexian of him to use the word 'fun' so glibly especially when many don't have 'fun' with his games in the first place!

 

[zeitgeist]

Great. Now an Indy game is going to use the exact same system. How long until every CRPG is the same? Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse...

How is this surprising? If indie developers can cater to the masses, they'll jump at the chance to do so. You were never really their audience out of anything else but necessity, if there's a chance that they can capture a bigger, dumber slice of the market, they'll almost always do it.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Great. Now an Indy game is going to use the exact same system. How long until every CRPG is the same? Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse...

How is this surprising? If indie developers can cater to the masses, they'll jump at the chance to do so. You were never really their audience out of anything else but necessity, if there's a chance that they can capture a bigger, dumber slice of the market, they'll almost always do it.

Graphics and Real Time combat is what he needs if this is the objective.

 

[Sick Bum]

Weren't a bunch of people calling me an indie hating asshole for saying Vogel just doesn't care any more earlier?

 

[zeitgeist]

Graphics and Real Time combat is what he needs if this is the objective.

That's not within the realm of feasible though. This is the next best thing - providing a "classic cRPG experience" or whatever the marketing term will be, to people who really really don't want to play an actual classic cRPG (because of varying reasons or excuses I won't get into at length), but want to be able to say they did.

 

[Sick Bum]

Graphics and Real Time combat is what he needs if this is the objective.

That's not within the realm of feasible though. This is the next best thing - providing a "classic cRPG experience" or whatever the marketing term will be, to people who really really don't want to play an actual classic cRPG (because of varying reasons or excuses I won't get into at length), but want to be able to say they did.

To be honest I'd say this is more like incompetence in this case.

In spite of the "superb gameplay" of vogel's games, according to Vault Dweller, he really sucks at making an kind of interesting combat.

He probably even thinks this makes him more hardcore or something stupid like that. He is good about some stuff but a lot of times I feel like he just has no clue about RPGs. At least this one is a new setting but it sounds like about what I'd expect from 35th vogel game.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

LOLZERS. ME I LIEK TO HHAVE DEVELPERS TELL ME WAT IZ FUN ADN NOT. IF VOGAL SAZS ITZ FUN THEN ITZ FUN CLEARLY

Well going back and forth into town clearly wasn't 'fun' among enough of the plebs, so Vogel decided to get rid of that I guess and that's what he was meaning. I know it wasn't Codexian of him to use the word 'fun' so glibly especially when many don't have 'fun' with his games in the first place!

Yeah. While it's entertaining to think of all developers as

, I imagine that was a common complaint among fans, otherwise he wouldn't be bothered to change it.

 

[Vagiel]

Actually cool down in an turn based RPG could work much better than in real time. Correct me if i am wrong but this should be a first in the genre. Having a plethora of abilities with a cool down period could make calculating turns and making plans for further rounds very interesting. For example since you will not be able to spam the same area effect spell for consecutive rounds you will have to be able to calculate your and the enemies position in X rounds of the cool down and plan accordingly. I think or better hope this can work quite well.