Company News ToEE was Atari's best selling PC CRPG last year

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Atari; Temple of Elemental Evil

<A href="Http://www.atari.com">Atari</a> has released their <A href="http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=66845&p=irol-sec">10-K report</a> for their fiscal year that ended in <i>March 2004</i>. Interestingly enough, <A href="http://www.greyhawkgame.com">Temple of Elemental Evil</a> was their <i>numero uno</i> PC CRPG during that year. The two expansion packs to <A href="Http://nwn.bioware.com">Neverwinter Nights</a> fell somewhat below that. The only strictly PC platform game to beat out <A href="Http://www.greyhawkgame.com">ToEE</a> in terms of sales was <A href="http://www.unrealtournament.com/">UT2004</a>. It was the <i>numero tres</i> seller of all <A href="Http://www.atari.com">Atari</a>'s PC releases total.
<br>
<br>
Not bad for a cranked out, <u>niche</u> CRPG, eh? (Yeah, that was just to piss off Volourn)
<br>
<br>
Thanks for the info, <b>butsomuch</b>, who spotted it at <A href="Http://www.rpgdot.com">RPGDot</a>.
<br>

 

[Whipporowill]

I never thought of posting this as news. Boy, do I feel somewhat silly... hehe.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Well, I enjoyed the game.

 

[Kamaz]

Kewl, man, kewl. That is real success for them because ToEE was not that good to win undoubtly. My guess is that the game was bought by DnD freaks because they had no worthy alternatives really.

 

[Shevek]

Kamaz:

Im not sure what 'good to win' means but Im not a DnD freak and I liked ToEE. Ive found that most people who got enjoyment from the title name the enganging turn-based combat as the core plus. I know Spazmo has professed enjoyment of the game and he seems to dislike the entire fantasy genre.

 

[taks]

of course, the report doesn't mention any numbers so calling it a niche may still apply. i.e. maybe they ALL sold poorly. my guess is in the 200k range...

taks

 

[Kamaz]

I am kinda against fantasy as genre, that was the reason I could not play BaldursGate1/2, Torment, Morrowind and, yes, ToEE. I tried, oh, hell, I tried sweating from concentration and..da pain..da PAIN...but I could not linger any longer in that world of cursed wizards and goblins with hairy foots..

That would be mainly the reason I did not enjoy the game. However, that is obvious, that ToEE did not feature stroy interesting enough in my humble opinion. Combat I liked because it was real chellange and made me think twice before getting into fight or taking some combat-quest as I usually do. This was the thing I did not experienced even in Fallouts. Though, the price was that level limit and party I had to carry around. [More than fantasy I cannot stand classic tRPG style parties...ok..maybe they are as bad as fantasy itself] Actually, starting to think, party was not obligatory but forced decision because otherwise I could not live through any fight. And that kinda makes sense .. oh well, forget the party, the story line was annoying and did not catch me up.

 

[Volourn]

YAY! TOEE barely beat out two expansions. I'm proud for this 'niche' game that has a base customer base of 2 million people. Woo hoo! Yeah, really a niche.

cranked out? if a game with a 2 year development cycle can outsell expansions that had maybe a year or so tops by who knows how little of a margiun, way to go.

Bottom line, TOEE was no more a niche game than any D&D game is.

 

[taks]

anybody got any NPD data on sales figures? inquiring minds and all that... last year in general wasn't good for rpgs from a sales standpoint...

taks

 

[Jung]

I have a hard time playing anything but fantasy. I am trying to play KOTR, but Star Wars SciFi is so lame. I got sidetracked playing Blades of Avernum demo. Maybe one day I will have to finish Fallout(braces for heat) too. I still got the disks and everything.

 

[Volourn]

SW is fantasy..

 

[Jung]

SW is fantasy..

Really? By my definition,SW is science fiction, and D&D type games with elves, dragons and whatnot are fantasy.

 

[Volourn]

SW has its elven type races, has it's "dragons", and msot definitely has magic otherwise known as the force. the Force alone is what makes it fantasy since the force is not 'real".

 

[Transcendent One]

SW is fantasy but it has its sci-fi elements too. Spaceships, aliens, computers and really advanced technology is the kind of stuff I'd expect in a sci-fi scenario.

 

[taks]

hehe... might and magic. sci-fi fantasy crossover, too?

taks

 

[Jung]

I suppose I just find a lovely brick and stone dungeon more cozy than the cold metal bowels of a spaceship :D

 

[Kamaz]

What makes sci-fi sci-fi? RObots? AI? Space? Spaceships? Aliens?Nope.

It is the science, that makes science-fiction science-fiction. The genre tends to something that is possible not yet byut might be and has rational explanation. Of course, you can allways say that magic is something scientific actually and so purely technically there would be no differenece.

It is not so, actually, magic was far before science. As we can see in the finest magic-not-magic implementing game nowadays, Teudogar, magic is something that is based on believe. Science, however, today is mostly based on facts. Otherwise it is not called magic. As soon as any player in any game cannot explain rationally something he encounters - would it be fire-ball or space-ship, it starts to be a magic. If wizard can cast fire out of his hands, it is very difficult to explain it with pure facts and logical conclusions - you end up into unknown. Space-ship, however, is something that can be explained even with minor education. What more, nowadays we can see space-ships and they are real, so it is less of a wonder theyare encountered in a game. They are explainable. Magic, however, we can only believe or not into. As soon as it is cleared out fith facts, it ends up being magic and starts brand new life as a scientific phenomena.

In these terms speaking StarWars, MightAndMagic, Wizardry are definetly fantasy. Real sci-fi are Fallouts, SystemShocks,DeusEx[the first, second sucks the big one].

The another thing - if any game features at least one non-scientifically explainable thing [clear manifestation of magic], it is sci-fi no more and is fantasy by default.

 

[Jed]

Among purist fans of SF, the correct term for SW and its ilk is space opera. That is to say, "adventures in a spacey or futuristic setting that have nothing to do with SCIENCE! or extrapolations thereof."

 

[Sol Invictus]

When technology is sufficiently advanced enough people will call it magic.

 

[taks]

exactly, ex. at least, when it's sufficiently advanced beyond current accepted technology. realistically, it's all fantasy. we just like to say fantasy = medieval, sci-fi = technology and then... space opera? i think i have heard SW referred to that way before.

taks

 

[Jed]

When technology is sufficiently advanced enough people will call it magic.

No, they'll understand how it works and call it a quantum toaster or hover-sled. An Ipod would be "magic" to someone from 2 or 3 centuries ago, but even to someone versed in the science of the turn of the century, it could be made relatively understandable. Even though you probably don't understand how a lot of your computer works, you don't call it magic.

BTW, change the goddamn forum colors!

 

[Voss]

Kamaz-

No, sorry. Many systems of magic are logical and fact based (in games/stories). Within the context of the setting, they make sense, in the same way that hyperdrives and lasers make sense in a sci-fi context. Whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant, but as far as the setting goes, theres usually a good reason why someone can conjure up a ball of fire. Someone could just as easily believe that magic gnomes run their spaceships. And science today is based as much on belief as facts. You believe what you're teachers tell you is true. You believe them when they say that the facts (or, more accurately, their explanations for the phenomenon they have observed) justify their theories. Sure, you can by and large replicate experiments, but the theories and explanations (and even some of the observations) are the product of a personal and social world view rather than irrefutable fact.
Science, at the core, is simply a matter of 'this is the best explanation we can come up with at the current time and with current tools'. In 10, 15, 30 years, a better explanation comes along, and gets used until it gets invalidated by something else.


By the by, Fallout, system shock, and Deus Ex aren't anymore science-fiction by the purist definition than D&D. Fluff pseudo science justifies all. Intentionally so in Fallouts case.

But in terms of marketing genres, of course, sci-fi is (or rather, has become) just robots/spaceships/lasers, and what not. In a lot of ways, sci-fi has become easier. 'Everybody' (i.e. the audience) knows enough about spaceships that they can just be there, with no explanation. Systems of magic still have to be justified and explained.

 

[taks]

Even though you probably don't understand how a lot of your computer works, you don't call it magic.

hehe...

what then, by all current definitions, would qualify as sci-fi? perhaps an x-files rpg (that might be cool). war of the worlds... l. ron hubbard stuff (gag).

taks

 

[Jed]

Y'know SF exists outside of TV & Movies. Try a book. Stephenson, Sterling, & Gibson have quite a bit of pretty well-thought out shit in most of their respective cyberpunk and steampunk. Stanislaw Lem has some really interesting hard science work; also has a lot of non-fiction writings on SF. Kim Stanley Robinson has some interesting stuff, including alternative histories. SF doesn't have to be about technology per se, it can be about any new idea that one can construct a believable story around, like society or gender or culture, etc. Le Guin has a lot of interesting stuff in this way, though also a lot of fantasy shit as well. Don't forget old masters such as PKD, Herbert, Ellison, Clarke, Bradbury, or Asimov.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I think this is an unfair comparison. Temple of Elemental Evil is a full-blown game; SoU and HoTU are expansions. It's almost impossible it would sell less. Not only that, expansion packs, by default, sell less than full blown games.

This is hardly something that would make ToEE shine under a new light.