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Editorial RPG Mechanics Improved : ME2

VentilatorOfDoom

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Tags: BioWare; Mass Effect 2

Learn how Mass Effect 2 managed to <a href="http://bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed/mass-effect-2-as-rpg-new-and-improved.html">improve on outdated RPG mechanics.</a>
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<p style="margin-left:50px;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;border-top-color:#ffffff;padding:5px;border-right-color:#bbbbbb;border-left-color:#ffffff;border-bottom-color:#bbbbbb;">I've heard some complaints from players that the system is too simplistic, but is that really the case? Let's do the numbers.
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In ME2, each power that Shepard can learn can be upgraded to 4 different levels. Acquiring a power requires one squad point, upgrading a power to level 2 requires 2 squad points, and so on, up through level 4.
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Contrast that to the original Mass Effect, where each talent had 12 ranks which granted incremental improvements. All of your combat talents had three tiers (Basic, Advanced, and Master), and achieving each new tier gave extra bonuses.
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For a specific example, consider Throw, a biotic power common to both games whose mechanics were largely unchanged. When you hit an enemy with Throw, you apply a certain number of Newtons of force, which causes damage upon initial impact and then further damage if the enemy hits something after being thrown.
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I crunched the numbers on the statistics between the two games, and I found that in ME1, a 1 point increase in Throw produced a 7% average increase in force, whereas in ME2, upgrading Throw produced a 33% average increase. However, if you only consider the three tiers in ME1, you have a 45% average increase per tier - and a 33% increase over four tiers is roughly equivalent to a 45% increase over three.
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So what's my point here? Well, let me ask you this: In the heat of battle, when that krogan is charging and you need to knock him on his ass to buy yourself some time, are you really going to notice that 7% and say to yourself "Man, I'm glad I spent that 1 extra point in Throw last level?" Honestly, a level 2 Throw (which cost 3 squad points) in ME2 does 700 Newtons, while a level 5 Throw in ME1 (which cost 5) does 800. Who in the world is going to be able to tell the difference?
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That's what I've been trying to explain. I don't think that ME2's skill system is too simplified, I think that the typical leveling systems used in other RPGs are overly complicated!
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Let's face it, just about every RPG with a more complex leveling system has introduced tiers in some way. Oblivion did it, Fallout 3 did it, Dragon Age did it...it's necessary for the developers to tell their players, "Yes, there really is a concrete difference between a Science score of 47 and 50!" Otherwise, progression would be so abstract and subtle that no one would be able to tell they were progressing, and where's the fun in that?
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I think he has a point here dudes, just look at the numbas.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/96824-mass-effect-2-as-an-rpg-new-and-improved.html">The Banshee</A>
 

Volourn

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"Learn how Mass Effect 2 managed to improve on outdated RPG mechanics."

Bullshit.
 

Grunker

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So, he's using ME1, a BAD example of an RPG, as an example of why ME2 is - not just a better RPG than ME1 - but a better RPG than other RPGs. On top of that, he's not using it in any way to show the strength of the system itself - he is simply comparing it to one other inefficient system. Furthermore, he uses the 7% not mattering as an example of ME2's superiority - what he should be doing is moaning about the inherent failure of a system in which don't notice an increase of 1 level out of ten.

Finally, he concludes, not that ME1's character system is inferior because you don't notice this increase, but that ME2's is surperior because it does away with minor increases alltogether.

What the fuck kindda reasoning is that? Guy should be shot, or at least condemned to never write an article again in his life.
 

GarfunkeL

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The concentrated stupidity. Oh and the irony of "I'm a real number cruncher - I can't remember how many times I put the rubber band over my XBOX360 controller to"

HOLY COW BATMAN! RUBBERBAND OVER CONSOLE CONTROLLER = Complicated numbercrunching RPG-goodness
 

Brother None

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GarfunkeL said:
HOLY COW BATMAN! RUBBERBAND OVER CONSOLE CONTROLLER = Complicated numbercrunching RPG-goodness

Tsssk

"I even pulled the "escape the Vault, set difficulty to Very Easy, run down to Rivet City and grab the Intelligence bobblehead at Level 2" trick"

That's it, I'm sorry guys, you can't doubt the RPG credentials of someone with such expert knowledge.
 

Xor

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I bet ME3 skills will only have one rank.

BEST RPG SYSTEM EVER.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
That's what I've been trying to explain. I don't think that ME2's skill system is too simplified, I think that the typical leveling systems used in other RPGs are overly complicated!

Haha. :lol:
 

dragonfk

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Even if he's wrong about RPG mechanics being too complex, he's certainly right about meager difference that every invested point made to your skill in ME. I prefer less levels of a skill but with a bigger difference between the levels.
 

fastpunk

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I can't believe journos are actually defending the obvious dumbing down going on in ME2. And with arguments like 'ME2 is not dumbed down, the others are too complex!'. I really don't blame big devs/publishers for not trying anymore, these gobble-cock journalists will always be there to sing their praise and proclaim every bit of dumbing down as an evolution. Fucking doublethink!

edit: Shit, I sounded like skyway there. Might have channeled a bit too much nerd rage I think. :oops:
 
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With ME2 getting 9/10 or 10/10 almost on every major site, I think there's a chance Bioware might reconsider making DA a trilogy. ME2 sells way way better than DA:O.
 

Grunker

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Droog White Smile said:
With ME2 getting 9/10 or 10/10 almost on every major site, I think there's a chance Bioware might reconsider making DA a trilogy. ME2 sells way way better than DA:O.

Yeah, but they sell to different demographics mostly, so scratching one won't improve the sales of the other much.

Both make tons of cash all things considered.
 
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Shannow said:
Droog White Smile said:
ME2 sells way way better than DA:O.
Proof?
I'm seriously interested. Although, I'm quite sure you're pulling that out of your ass.
Get stuffed!

[url=http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1043079#1043079:2izpojce]Brother None[/url] said:
Volourn said:
Proof please. I kallz bullshitz on youz.

DA:O shipped 3.2 mil copies by Feb 9, 3 months after release.

Mass Effect two sold 2 million copies in its first week.
 

Volourn

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"Yeah, but they sell to different demographics mostly, so scratching one won't improve the sales of the other much. "

Bullset. In fact, I'd bet their audiences largely over lap. Afterall, BIO agmes tend to sell between 2.5mil-3mil no matter what (JE being an exception with 1.5mil-2mil). The same people who bought DA will likely but ME2. FFS If anything, DA is probablya subset of the ME2 pruchasders since BIO managed to hoodwink shooter fans into buying their Action RPG with shooter elements. R00fles!


"DA:O shipped 3.2 mil copies by Feb 9, 3 months after release.

Mass Effect two sold 2 million copies in its first week."

3.2 > 2.0

Do some fuckin' math, and don't count your copies shipped/sold until they are. FFS

ME2 will possibly otusell DA but not there yet.
 

Shannow

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Droog White Smile said:
Bullshit.

FFS
*g*
Beaten by Volly, simply because you're so full of yourself you won't put a "probably" into your statements.

Nice to see there is still some "give them enough rope to hang themselves with" going on on the codex.
 

Kashrlyyk

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Volourn said:
....

"DA:O shipped 3.2 mil copies by Feb 9, 3 months after release.

Mass Effect two sold 2 million copies in its first week."

3.2 > 2.0

Do some fuckin' math, and don't count your copies shipped/sold until they are. FFS

ME2 will possibly otusell DA but not there yet.
You should be able to understand the difference between those two words. The time frames are different too.
 

denizsi

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Don't be a semanticstard. Numbers don't lie.
 

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