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Editorial More of Avellone's Morals: What is evil?

DarkUnderlord

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Tags: Chris Avellone

<a href="http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=1&showentry=116">Chris Avellone's epic digest of morals continues with part 2</a>.
<br>
<blockquote><b>What do you personally consider to be a typically evil character?</b>
<br>
An evil character puts their self before all others, and lets others die or suffer if there is something to gain by it. They are the ones who kill anyone who blocks their progress, steal from others, lie to gain trust, and do anything to get ahead.
<br>
<br>
<b>Would you say that it is ok in a game to have human characters that the player can kill without any form of penalty?</b>
<br>
Yes. I think there should be consequences for it, but not always a penalty. If that's how the player wishes to play the game, they should be allowed to do so. Arbitrary invulnerability for townspeople or non-player characters isn’t something that caters to evil characters.
<br>
<br>
These types of characters could be placed anywhere, the important thing is that their deaths have consequences that fit the context of their placement (murder in towns should affect reputation, should affect guard presence, and if the player is seen hurting or attacking anyone, then the town should turn against him).
<br>
<br>
Again, the important thing is that there is some consequence, but such a consequence is not only a penalty.</blockquote>
<br>
So evil people "let" others die (as opposed to, you know, deliberately disembowling them) and do evil things like think of themselves. There you have it, evil people are capitalists.
<br>
<br>
Spotted @ <a href="http://rpgwatch.com/">RPGWatch</a>
 

Kos_Koa

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Avellone said:
but I think one of the most interesting aspects of moral choices is actually in massively multiplayer online games

OH NOES!!! :shock:
 

Shoelip

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Come on guys, just imagine how Todd Howard would answer that question.
 

easychord

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Moral choices in Mass Effect were so hard. Is it the top dialog option if I want to be Captain Kirk or the bottom one? I can never remember.
 

Depressinator

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Evil is when you laugh a diabolic laugh as you complete the same quests you would as a good guy.
 

Shoelip

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Depressinator said:
Evil is when you laugh a diabolic laugh as you complete the same quests you would as a good guy.

And ask for a reward.
 

Shoelip

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-Pavlos- said:
You guys don't happen to work for BioWare do you?

Has any Bioware game that allowed you to laugh maniacally in order to prove you're evil? I don't remember it if it did.
 

Shannow

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RPGs are full of evil peasants who ask adventurers to risk their lives for them.
And if it is a Bioware game they'll slag the idiot adventurers behind their backs if they dared to ask for a reward.

Thankfully good and evil are easily definable and comprehendable concepts that work in every situation and every cultural backround.
 

easychord

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Shoelip said:
Has any Bioware game that allowed you to laugh maniacally in order to prove you're evil? I don't remember it if it did.

Don't listen to them. The right way to play a Bioware game is to don a moustache and monocle. At appropriate points in the game you either twirl the moustache or act so surprised that the monocle drops. This greatly enhances the roll playing.
 

Mareus

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easychord said:
Shoelip said:
Has any Bioware game that allowed you to laugh maniacally in order to prove you're evil? I don't remember it if it did.

Don't listen to them. The right way to play a Bioware game is to don a moustache and monocle. At appropriate points in the game you either twirl the moustache or act so surprised that the monocle drops. This greatly enhances the roll playing.

Yeah and NWN2 and Kotor 2 made by Obsidian are much better than Bioware games. It doesn't matter they fall apart in the end, and it doesn't matter they are buggy, as long as you have a dwarf who wants to become a monk and an old witch who can kill 3 jedi masters in one second. Obsidian rules, because of deep and original characters they can make. I mean where else could you see something so original as a dwarf trying to become a kung fu master.
 

Gragt

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
Mareus said:
Yeah and NWN2 and Kotor 2 made by Obsidian are much better than Bioware games. It doesn't matter they fall apart in the end, and it doesn't matter they are buggy, as long as you have a dwarf who wants to become a monk and an old witch who can kill 3 jedi masters in one second. Obsidian rules, because of deep and original characters they can make. I mean where else could you see something so original as a dwarf trying to become a kung fu master.

Certainly beats an elf whining after her wings all the time or an emo flower girl who gets emo-gutted by an emo ninja in an over-emo scene reeking of emonism.
 

Suicidal

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I sometimes wonder if Mareus is really Andhaira. Are you really Andhaira, Mareus?
 

Mareus

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Suicidal said:
I sometimes wonder if Mareus is really Andhaira. Are you really Andhaira, Mareus?

Nope, I only know he is not liked here on the Codex, but the last time I heard Andhaira was supposed to be at least funny while I am all serious which makes me a bit more annoying. I swear I am not Andhaira. I really am not. Cross my heart and hope to die. Nope sirre.

But I never understood why Andhaira is hated around here. Just as i don't understand why people don't like Volly pretty princess. And I sure don't understand why some people spit shit on Bioware around here, when Bioware is one of the rare companies that still produces decent games.
 

Lumpy

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Mareus said:
easychord said:
Shoelip said:
Has any Bioware game that allowed you to laugh maniacally in order to prove you're evil? I don't remember it if it did.

Don't listen to them. The right way to play a Bioware game is to don a moustache and monocle. At appropriate points in the game you either twirl the moustache or act so surprised that the monocle drops. This greatly enhances the roll playing.

Yeah and NWN2 and Kotor 2 made by Obsidian are much better than Bioware games. It doesn't matter they fall apart in the end, and it doesn't matter they are buggy, as long as you have a dwarf who wants to become a monk and an old witch who can kill 3 jedi masters in one second. Obsidian rules, because of deep and original characters they can make. I mean where else could you see something so original as a dwarf trying to become a kung fu master.
Funny how you avoid mentioning MotB. Obsidian made at least one brilliant RPG (don't know yet about K2). Bioware made... what?
 

Mareus

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Gragt said:
Mareus said:
Yeah and NWN2 and Kotor 2 made by Obsidian are much better than Bioware games. It doesn't matter they fall apart in the end, and it doesn't matter they are buggy, as long as you have a dwarf who wants to become a monk and an old witch who can kill 3 jedi masters in one second. Obsidian rules, because of deep and original characters they can make. I mean where else could you see something so original as a dwarf trying to become a kung fu master.

Certainly beats an elf whining after her wings all the time or an emo flower girl who gets emo-gutted by an emo ninja in an over-emo scene reeking of emonism.

You can't compare Arie and Arieth with Kreia and Khelgar. :roll:
 

Mareus

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Lumpy said:
Funny how you avoid mentioning MotB. Obsidian made at least one brilliant RPG (don't know yet about K2). Bioware made... what?

Bioware made BG trilogy, which is 2 awsome games and 1 awsome expansion. Motb is just one awsome, awsome, awsome expansion.
 

easychord

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This won't be a serious discussion until someone mentions that Troika games also had flaws.
 

Rhett Butler

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Mareus said:
You can't compare Arie and Arieth with Kreia and Khelgar. :roll:

You also can't mention Khelgar in the same sentance as Kreia unless you are sayng "I don't understand how the same company that prodced fantastic characters like Kreia can then throw half assed, one dimensional cliches like Khelgar in our faces.", or something similar.
 

Mareus

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Suicidal said:

Because BG has other characters that could actually be compared with Khelgar more accurately like Minsc (a ranger that loves to kick ass with wisdom of 8 if I am not mistaken). If he wanted to metion FF7, then he should have chosen Barret and not Aerith. Furthermore Kreia is pretty unique character which I can only compare to PST's Ravel. When I mentioned Kreia killing 3 jedi masters in one second, I mearly wanted to remind people how Obsidian has a tendency of publishing unfinished products, which can be seen both in NWN2 and especialy in Kotor 2 when Kreia fries 3 jedi masters in one second, and then you kick ass of two sith lords in 30 minutes, only to face Kreia in the end who could utterly destroy 3 jedi masters, but couldn't kill you even with 6 swords.
 

Mareus

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Rhett Butler said:
Mareus said:
You can't compare Arie and Arieth with Kreia and Khelgar. :roll:

You also can't mention Khelgar in the same sentance as Kreia unless you are sayng "I don't understand how the same company that prodced fantastic characters like Kreia can then throw half assed, one dimensional cliches like Khelgar in our faces.", or something similar.

Read the post above.
 

Lumpy

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Mareus said:
Lumpy said:
Funny how you avoid mentioning MotB. Obsidian made at least one brilliant RPG (don't know yet about K2). Bioware made... what?

Bioware made BG trilogy, which is 2 awsome games and 1 awsome expansion.
Except it isn't.
 

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