David Gaider lubs us.

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: David Gaider

<b>David Gaider</b>, <a href="http://www.bioware.com">BioWare</a> guy, has publically admitted he loves us. Completely and deeply, madly loves us, as you can <A href="http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=246861&forum=77&sp=195">read right here</a>! Then he locked the thread.
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<blockquote>Of course, I'm still laughing from my jaunt over to RPG Codex. Wow. If anyone thinks Visceral is a mite indignant or pushy in his views (and needs a good laugh), they should head to the forums over there. One of my posts in this thread is posted and dissected... funny, funny stuff.</blockquote>
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We <3 j00 2, <b>David</b>! PLZ SPEND MOER TIME RITING ESCUSES 4 J00R D3SIGNZ 4 US. KTHXBYE!
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Thanks to <b>Volourn</b> and <b>Visceris</b> for the head's up.

 

[Spazmo]

I live in Montreal, and I'm a proud Canadian. I love my country and there's hardly a damn thing that could make me the least bit ashamed of Canada.

However, whenever I read about BioWare's latest collective brain fart, I feel a stab of hideous shame at these morons these twats with their over-inflated opinion of themselves and their games. I really wish the whole damn company would just move to California or something so they could remove the blemish from my beloved homeland.

 

[Volourn]

Actually, I can't take credit for the head's up. I am no spy for either side. This, however, should be taken as a good sign as it shows that at least once, and awhile Mr. Gaider checks up on RPGCodex.

Spazmo, you seem to obviously have a problem. Actually, I understand where you coming from. You can attack BIO, and Mr. Gaider; but once he even mentions this place you feel all insulted and what not? I mean look what has been written here yet he can't respond? LMAO All he said was that RPGCodexers are pushy, and idignant which is obviously true; and that he finds it funny. Really, did his comment shurt you that bad?

As far as it being a Kanadian company. Welll.. Kananda is a good country; but it really isn't that special. Anyone who refers to their country as "beloved homeland" surely has a case of the patriotic blues. However, that's a whole 'nother story.

In conclusion, chill, it's just the internet. Don't take it so personally.

Saint, LOL.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

hey

I take it personally when i buy one of their games and find out that it's half assed. Gaider openly anounced that multiple paths is alot harder then just doing a linear game, so they decide not to take the challenge. While companies with less money and time, have done it and turned out projects better then they have. Volourn you can talk about how we are all over critical and stubborn all you want, but it won't change the fact that Bioware chooses not to make their games a certain way because it's "infinitly harder".

 

[Volourn]

Yes, fine, then you are fully aware how they make their games; therefore you have the right not to buy their games. No one is forcing you to do otherwise. Bioware doesn't make games the way you want them to so get over it, and move on.

However, that isn't the issue here. My post was directed at Spazmo's indinant post about Mr. Gaider having the 'gall" to post an opinion on PGCodex when that's all we do here about him. Basically, Spazmo proved he cna dish it out; but taking it is a whole different story.

 

[DrattedTin]

Gaider didn't post a single thing on rpgcodex. I think that's what annoys me.

From the safety of his own forum he insults the whole site and then locks the thread out of hand.

 

[Volourn]

Draft, I agree with your first point. It kinda annoys me too. It'd be nice for him to post here just to see the kind of reception people would give him. :twisted:

As for him locking the thread, I think that occured because BIo has a policy to lock threads once they grow to 10+ pages and/or they go off topic which that one certainly did.

 

[Spazmo]

Spazmo, you seem to obviously have a problem. Actually, I understand where you coming from. You can attack BIO, and Mr. Gaider; but once he even mentions this place you feel all insulted and what not? I mean look what has been written here yet he can't respond? LMAO All he said was that RPGCodexers are pushy, and idignant which is obviously true; and that he finds it funny. Really, did his comment shurt you that bad?

I'm not insulted by Gaider's comments. I'm insulted by BioWare's pathetic attempts at RPG design and engine programming.

 

[Volourn]

And, what does that exactly have to do with this thead which according to SP's post is about Gaider talking about this site?

 

[Spazmo]

Because Gaider's comments on our site were the result of us criticising his half-assed RPG design, that same poor design that leads to my shame.

 

[Volourn]

Okay. Just wanted to know.

 

[Nomad]

Actually, SP - the thread continued for another page (and another hour), long before which it had started to deviate from the original poster's initial topic and had reached a size of 15 pages. BioWare typically locks threads that meet either of those criteria, not just the ones that talk about RPGCodex. From the way you tell it, David shut the thread down with that post and that's not what happened at all.

Now, do any of you actually blame David for not wanting to come here as an employee of BioWare when all one has to do to draw the wrath and full weight of just about everyone on this site is to even suggest that they _like_ a BioWare game? I've still got the scars from the flames, so I don't. As you are insulting and berating David and his work on your site, I think that gives him every right to comment on said coverage on his site. I would imagine though, that any of you are free to continue the discussion of RPGCodex on those forums without fear of retaliation by BioWare. Can the same be said here? Personally, I'm just glad to see that some BioWare people come here at all - maybe they can find something constructive in some of these discussions through all of the anti-BioWare noise.

I haven't found more than one or two isolated examples of a BioWare employee saying anything but great things about other people in the industry and their work.

Here's some things David posted in the same thread that SP referenced to start this whole thing off:

I'm sure ToEE will be a great game.

and

The multiple endings and beginnings that ToEE seems to have planned sound like they'll be quite interesting, and I'm intrigued to see in the end exactly how they've managed to pull it off.

As such, I don't really understand where people think BioWare has this "we're all that and then some" attitude. Is it because of some marketing spiel by one of their publishers? A publisher pumping up its product or its partners? There's a surprise. Is it because the owners say they have a great and talented staff? Jeez - I'd hate to hear what you expect your employers say about you: "Yeah, that Spastickoid is about the laziest, do nothingest, most worthless piece of camel dung I've ever had the misfortune of hiring. Man if I could do it all over again, I'd just shoot myself and save myself the trouble of dealing with that whining trouble maker altogether." Of course your employer isn't going to say things like that about his or her employees.

In general, I don't think being ashamed of / insulted by the work of others over which you have no direct control and that makes no reference to you personally is a healthy attitude, especially when the work in question centres around a recreational activity like playing games. One should relax and have fun with his or her hobby - unless playing games isn't your hobby at all, maybe it's perpetualy bitching about games you perceive to be low quality instead of moving on. In that case, I would suggest calling a spade a spade and cut the pretense.

On that note, I'm off to play a little DAoC or maybe some SW Galaxies. Yeah!


N.

 

[DrattedTin]

When there's not much else to do, bitching is natural.

That said, Bioware has pulled some pretty weird publicity stunts, that border of fanatic egopumping. It may not represent their employees, but there it is.

 

[Sol Invictus]

If Mr. Gaider isn't careful, his obnoxiously large ego will get the better of him. I doubt that the kind of ego-pumping that he occasionally indulges himself in and the off-cuff remarks he makes about other developers and their games manages to earn him any respect with the developer community.

The only reason, at this point (in my opinion) that anyone indulges his erratic self-centered behaviour is because of his commercial success. It's the same with the actor Ashton Kuchter - all the directors hate him, but the producers find him desirable due to the commercial success of "That 70s Show" and his popularity with young airheads. Nothing more.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Now, do any of you actually blame David for not wanting to come here as an employee of BioWare when all one has to do to draw the wrath and full weight of just about everyone on this site is to even suggest that they _like_ a BioWare game?

Naw, would just be fun is all. And who knows, maybe Dave-o can teach us whippersnappers something.

As such, I don't really understand where people think BioWare has this "we're all that and then some" attitude.

Um, have you actually read developer interviews with them? Like, ever?

 

[Sabotai]

I'm mildly surpirsed, as Volourn pointed out, that Mr Gaider sometimes visits these fora. But not completely because I've always had a nagging suspicion that the poster ljw1004 in this thread about David Gaider's game design vision is actually Mr Gaider himself. But then again, it could be someone else.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Actually, SP - the thread continued for another page (and another hour), long before which it had started to deviate from the original poster's initial topic and had reached a size of 15 pages. BioWare typically locks threads that meet either of those criteria, not just the ones that talk about RPGCodex. From the way you tell it, David shut the thread down with that post and that's not what happened at all.

I didn't say that, I just said he locked the thread after that. I didn't specify how long it took after that, which probably wasn't that long. I didn't say why he locked it either, however he even stated in that thread he locked it because he didn't want that thread to become a topic about RPG Codex. His words.

Now, do any of you actually blame David for not wanting to come here as an employee of BioWare when all one has to do to draw the wrath and full weight of just about everyone on this site is to even suggest that they _like_ a BioWare game?

We've got a few on here who liked BG/BG2/NWN, like that Volourn guy.

As you are insulting and berating David and his work on your site, I think that gives him every right to comment on said coverage on his site. I would imagine though, that any of you are free to continue the discussion of RPGCodex on those forums without fear of retaliation by BioWare. Can the same be said here? Personally, I'm just glad to see that some BioWare people come here at all - maybe they can find something constructive in some of these discussions through all of the anti-BioWare noise.

I've never once banned anyone for supporting BioWare here. Go on the BioWare forum and say you don't like NWN, and post many reasons why you didn't like it. Better yet, post about a bug in NWN on their forum, they'll ban ya for that. Hell, they even banned Volourn from the BioWare forums.

I haven't found more than one or two isolated examples of a BioWare employee saying anything but great things about other people in the industry and their work.

You mean they take a break from talking about how great they are one minute, then making an excuse or two why they didn't impliment something like cloaks in NWN?

As such, I don't really understand where people think BioWare has this "we're all that and then some" attitude. Is it because of some marketing spiel by one of their publishers? A publisher pumping up its product or its partners?

Ummmm.. Like Walks with Snails said, Have you ever read any interview with them? Hell, I've even posted clips from interviews where they talk about how they're the best RPG makers evar.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Here's some things David posted in the same thread that SP referenced to start this whole thing off:

I'm sure ToEE will be a great game.

The multiple endings and beginnings that ToEE seems to have planned sound like they'll be quite interesting, and I'm intrigued to see in the end exactly how they've managed to pull it off.

Nomad, you a blind fool if you honestly believe that Gaider's comments on ToEE are positive. It's the oldest trick in the book, to make a positive comment like "I like it, it's great" and then add "but..." to bury it. Let's look:

I'm sure ToEE will be a great game. I can also guarantee you that there's plenty of compromises that they've had to make with their design in order to accomodate such things as multiple beginnings and endings, most of which you're not aware of yet (and, by all evidence, likely never will be).

Yep, he likes it alright!

Except that a little game company like Troika hasn't actually done it yet. The funny thing about games is that they're all perfect until they're released.

What a motherfucker! I wonder how he would have liked it if somebody said the same line about NWN toolset before it was released.

Like DrattedTin said: For an executive of a public corporation, Gaider sure skips on the tact.

 

[Volourn]

Please, VD, you are lying once again. In that same same thread he mentions that it is dificult fo someone to do what Troika is doing with TOEE with multiple beginnings/endings; but after Aracnum if anyone can do it; Troika can. I think that shows he respects Troika; and likes their work. Face it; you are trying to paint a picture that both Bio, and BIS are somehow jealous of Troika's work which is baloney consideirng all they ever do is compliment onTroika's work. Then you make exsues for Cain when he ives jabs at both BIS,a nd BIo games since you think he says the gospel. LOL if anyone is a fanbo; it's you. Not one of the comments you quoted are an insult directed at Troika; but cold hard facts of the gaming industry. Seriously, get out of Cain's ass and get a breather.

SP, I was banned, and I agree it was silly that I was banned since I don't even know why yet. However, they don't ban people just becasue they diss NWN. In fact, there are many people on the BIO boards that post LOTS of negative things about the game yet they are still there. Go figure.

Yes, BIO are proud of their games, and why shouldn't they be? They are good games for the most part, and liked many to your. Also, they have never stated that their games are perfect. In fact, Gaider himself has said plenty of times he wishes that the henchmen in the OC would have been a lot better. He knows full well they weren't as good as they could be. Geez.. Sorry, BIo can be as self critical as any other gaming company.

 

[Spazmo]

Tim Cain's jibes are justified since Bio IS full of shit and BIS is diconcertingly often full of shit.

 

[Volourn]

So... You admit you are a fanboy. That is cool.

 

[Mistress]

Now, do any of you actually blame David for not wanting to come here as an employee of BioWare when all one has to do to draw the wrath and full weight of just about everyone on this site is to even suggest that they _like_ a BioWare game?

I like Baldur's Gate. Wasn't keen on BG2. I also like lots of other games that some other people here don't like. Of course, I'm not too sensitive to people posting why they disagree with my gaming choices or opinions either. Someof what you see as "wrath" is more likely to just be discussion.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In that same same thread he mentions that it is dificult fo someone to do what Troika is doing with TOEE with multiple beginnings/endings; but after Aracnum if anyone can do it; Troika can. I think that shows he respects Troika; and likes their work.

Volourn, why should I care about some other remarks that Gaider made. Yes, I saw them, yes, they were fairly positive, but I brought to your and Nomad's attention the remarks that are less then positive and unprofessional imo. So comment on them if you want assuming you have any comments. Btw, about lying, I'd prefer if we call each other's posts opinions, if it's ok with you. :wink:

Face it; you are trying to paint a picture that both Bio, and BIS are somehow jealous of Troika's work which is baloney consideirng all they ever do is compliment onTroika's work.

I am not trying to paint anything. Gaider made some comments, I draw my own conclusions and explained why. That's it. May be he is a sweet guy, may be he's a jealous prick, I don't give a fuck, but the fact is that he made several negative comments on ToEE hidden in positive content. You don't see them, get a pair of glasses.

Then you make exsues for Cain when he ives jabs at both BIS,a nd BIo games since you think he says the gospel.

Like I said many times before, he replied to a question. There is a difference.

Not one of the comments you quoted are an insult directed at Troika; but cold hard facts of the gaming industry.

Oh I see. Ok. Bio sucks, Gaider's a dick. How do you like them "cold hard facts of the gaming industry" now?

 

[Volourn]

LOL I disagree.

Let's look at his comments that you highlight in your attempt to show how much h hates Troika, and the like.

"guarantee you that there's plenty of compromises" - All this shows is that thre will eb compromises made by Troika to accomplish thier goal. That is a fact coonfirmed by Troika themselves. Yeah, that Gaider, he sure is hating on the competition.


"and, by all evidence, likely never will be" - This is directed at Visc who always talks like he knoww soemthing about game design, and knows what occurs in the inside. He doesn't; and Gaider is pointedly letting him know. How is this dissing Troika?


"a little game company" - You disputing the fact that Troika is a small company? I sure hope not as it's true. It's also not an insult espicially cosnideirng that HIO themselves were, indeed, small not that long ago.


"they're all perfect until they're released" - Another fact about games that aren't released. btw, This comment is directed at ALL games; not just TOEE, including NWN.

I think your problem is your hatred of BIo combined for your love fest with Troika makes you blind to the facts that you jump out defensively.

Yes, Cain's comments were in resposne to a question; but so was Gaider's. Visc asked if HOTU would have multiple endings, and pointed out the fact that TOEE will have it; so Gaider had every right to respond. H enever bashed Troika; in fact he complimented them on their work with Arcanum; and expressed looking forward to TOEE, and how they will design it. Geez... Yeah, he sure is dissin' them.

I couldn't care less if Dave Gaider was/is a nice guy, a jerk, a fool, or a genius. This really isn't about him to me. It's mroe about you intentionally misreading his words to 'stir the pot". The Troika guy on their baords who pointed out its the fans causing the trouble; and not the developers is right on the money.

As for lying vs. opinions; sure I'll do that; but only if you don't promise to make things up. :wink:

 

[Spazmo]

People keep saying we're Troika fanboys, but it ultimately comes down to this.

I spent ninety-three fucking dollars on Neverwinter Nights. That's ninety-three bucks I'll never see again. I'm not going to complain about the time I lost playing NWN because, hey, my time isn't worth anything anyways. But that's still a lot of money thrown down the toilet to buy a sorry excuse for an RPG. And for the record, ninety-three dollars Canadian is too damn much for a game. NWN is the single most expensive game I've ever bought.

On the other end of the spectrum, I spent maybe two thirds of that amount on Arcanum. That game didn't let me down. It had disappointing combat, rules system and interface, yes, but the setting, writing, dialog and good measure of non-linearity (not as much as Fallout, no, but still a commendable effort for such a huge game and damned better than any of BioWare's half-hearted efforts at non-linearity) made my purchase a wise decision.

That's why I think highly of Troika and I think it's the same for much of RPGCodex. I didn't mention Fallout because it is true that much of the team behind Arcanum and ToEE didn't make Fallout, even if the driving force behind both products did. But the fact of the matter is that Troika does not cause me to piss away my money. Their game didn't cost an arm and a leg and is a fine example of what an CRPG should be.