Company News Bioware redefines dialogue system

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: BioWare

Take a look at this <a href=http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3150698&did=1>1Up's Mass Effect preview</a>:
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<blockquote>The dialogue system is a refined, more dynamic version of what you've seen in previous Bioware games. You'll no longer read the lines and select which one you want to say; now you use a dialogue wheel to choose the approach you want to take (bully, bribe, or be nice, for example), and your character takes it from there.</blockquote>
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Refined? I hope Bethesda will sue.
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Thanks, Twinfalls

 

[Rivo]

I'm speechless.

Really.

 

[Balor]

Well, hmm. If you will choose the type of responce, and then the character will WORD the reply based on your choice - it's not that bad. In fact, it's pretty much the same as it was before, only you will not be able to see actual text before you select... and it's not that bad.
However, if our character will remain speechless, only the replies from the guy you are talking to will vary... well, Bethesday should indeed sue.

 

[Vault Dweller]

http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox-360/biowar ... 726p1.html

Although the game has a ton of promising elements, nothing impressed us as much as the innovative conversation system, which essentially allows characters to carry on discussion with NPCs in real time. You'll be able to interact with any character you meet in the game, but rather than simply selecting a phrase from a standard menu (like you did in Jade Empire and KotOR), you'll be able to use the analog stick to point to any one of several phrases around a wheel. If that sounds confusing, it's because, at first, it's hard to get your head around the concept. However, while previous games made you wait until the other character finished speaking, you'll be able to select your response at any time, allowing you to carry on a full conversation in real time. A moving camera will focus on whichever character is speaking, and you'll actually be able to hear your character's voice and see him talk, which is another departure from BioWare's other games.

 

[Rivo]

Well, hmm. If you will choose the type of responce, and then the character will WORD the reply based on your choice - it's not that bad. In fact, it's pretty much the same as it was before, only you will not be able to see actual text before you select... and it's not that bad.
However, if our character will remain speechless, only the replies from the guy you are talking to will vary... well, Bethesday should indeed sue.

Can't even imagine why Bioware would steal the most shittiest idea from Oblivion.

This pile of shit is probably implemented because some tardfuck couldn't make up which of the 3 sentences are good/bad/neutral. Example:

1. Embrace your death, lowlife.
2. Hi, how's your day?
3. I rather not talk to you.

OMG YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION OM11!!fz1

Morons.

 

[Zomg]

Although the game has a ton of promising elements, nothing impressed us as much as the innovative conversation system, which essentially allows characters to carry on discussion with NPCs in real time. You'll be able to interact with any character you meet in the game, but rather than simply selecting a phrase from a standard menu (like you did in Jade Empire and KotOR), you'll be able to use the analog stick to point to any one of several phrases around a wheel. If that sounds confusing, it's because, at first, it's hard to get your head around the concept. However, while previous games made you wait until the other character finished speaking, you'll be able to select your response at any time, allowing you to carry on a full conversation in real time. A moving camera will focus on whichever character is speaking, and you'll actually be able to hear your character's voice and see him talk, which is another departure from BioWare's other games.

That sounds damned weird. I'd like to see it in action - I guess I'm a terrible optimist for interpreting that as tentatively interesting.

 

[Hamster]

http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox-360/bioware-rpg-unnanounced/707726p1.html

Although the game has a ton of promising elements, nothing impressed us as much as the innovative conversation system, which essentially allows characters to carry on discussion with NPCs in real time. You'll be able to interact with any character you meet in the game, but rather than simply selecting a phrase from a standard menu (like you did in Jade Empire and KotOR), you'll be able to use the analog stick to point to any one of several phrases around a wheel. If that sounds confusing, it's because, at first, it's hard to get your head around the concept. However, while previous games made you wait until the other character finished speaking, you'll be able to select your response at any time, allowing you to carry on a full conversation in real time. A moving camera will focus on whichever character is speaking, and you'll actually be able to hear your character's voice and see him talk, which is another departure from BioWare's other games.

Well, sounds interesting for action/rpg. As long as they will keep this feature xbox360 exclusive i see nothing bad in it...

 

[Futurist]

Meh... The game is 360 exclusive right? So long as that system doesn’t make it into Dragon Age, I could care less. I would like to see how its works though because all I get right now is flashes from Oblivion.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

It is a clear rip-off of the dialogue system Perfect Assassin used. There you could choose from being friendly, neutral, less than friendly and sticking a gun in their face.

Grolier Interactive should sue.

 

[Slylandro]

Actually, with the exception of the part where Bioware just totally leeches off of Bethsheba, it does sound pretty interesting. If the conversation takes place in real time, that can add a sense of urgency to dialogue. Say nothing, and the person you're speaking to may change his/her disposition, or make up his/her own mind. Being able to interrupt a character could have potentially interesting implications; for example this would presumably be a breach of etiquette if you bluntly interrupt someone higher ranking than you in Mass Effect. Of course, it's not exactly hard to do stuff like this within a conventional system either, eg when you interrupt Virgil at the beginning of Arcanum when he's dealing with an assassin wannabe. Overall, it sounds interesting, maybe even innovative if it weren't for the step backwards by ripping off of Bethsheba, but I don't really think the system adds functionality that wouldn't be supported in a normal system. I guess it's a sign of the times when even dialogue isn't turn-based anymore. Next step: RTwP dialogue FTW!!1!!1

 

[VasikkA]

My dialogue wheel says "This is retarded".

But yeah, as long as what happens in the consoles stays in the consoles, it doesn't bother me. Although I'm a bit worried now that Bethesda introduced the system on PC as well. Could this mean a new era of dialogue-free commercial 'RPGs'? Will dialogue be labeled as boring and archaic like turn-based combat? There's certainly a lot of people who'd rather skip the dialogue part.

 

[Balor]

Well, come to think of it, it's not a real RPG, right?
Not more then, say, Ja2, right?
Now, remember the 'dialogue' system in ja2? .

 

[Jack_Deth]

Fucking hell

 

[obediah]

I'll have to wait for more info on this one. It certainly sounds much better than the Oblivion, and a system like this could have a lot of potential.

It could be combined with a radianter AI system to make for very interesting conversations. You pick the mood and your stats and skills are rolled together to see how well you pull it off.

My fear is it is the last nail in the bioware => rpg coffin. Hopefully they'll continue to make a real crpg every 10 years or so with the fat cash they haul in from console games. It seems the goal of the system is to get teh readin out of their x-box games, rather than trying to improve their thang.

 

[sabishii]

I doubt it's in actual real-time. Probably it's just that you can bypass listening to the other character speak and zip through the conversation faster. And that's not an innovation either, since you can just use the [Esc] key in most games. I just don't think it's actual real-time because what about the impatient ADD kiddies who can't sit through the whole conversation?

 

[Section8]

It is a clear rip-off of the dialogue system Perfect Assassin used. There you could choose from being friendly, neutral, less than friendly and sticking a gun in their face.

Grolier Interactive should sue.

Kingpin: Life of Crime used a similar system. I think there was positive/negative/special, and likewise there were reaction modifiers if you pointed weapons at people.

It could be combined with a radianter AI system to make for very interesting conversations. You pick the mood and your stats and skills are rolled together to see how well you pull it off.

It's interesting that they're trying "new" things, but I can't help but think that this sort of step is just going to completely homogenise the social interactions of the game. How long before developers start doing away with dialogue altogether in favour of Sims babble?

That sounds damned weird. I'd like to see it in action - I guess I'm a terrible optimist for interpreting that as tentatively interesting.

Because it's fucking Gamespy, they do a really bad job of explaining it. For instance, let's examine the following passage.

You'll be able to interact with any character you meet in the game, but rather than simply selecting a phrase from a standard menu (like you did in Jade Empire and KotOR), you'll be able to use the analog stick to point to any one of several phrases around a wheel.

So, from that explanation, it's a radial menu with phrases, instead of a standard menu with phrases. Fucking top notch reporting there, guys!

If that sounds confusing, it's because, at first, it's hard to get your head around the concept.

I'm sure it takes even the lowest form of sentient life form about half a second to grasp it. Is there any chance of showing it to, like, a primate of some kind, and getting them to explain it?

However, while previous games made you wait until the other character finished speaking, you'll be able to select your response at any time, allowing you to carry on a full conversation in real time.

Wait, wait, wait. So like Fallout, and countless other games where you can override the VO by selecting a dialogue option at any time, except it queues it instead of interrupting? OMFG THE INNOVBATSHUN@!!1@!!

A moving camera will focus on whichever character is speaking, and you'll actually be able to hear your character's voice and see him talk, which is another departure from BioWare's other games.

OMFG THE INNOVBATSHUN@!!1@!!

Cunts.

I'd been forgetting how much I loathe Bioware, and funnily enough, Gamespy too. Let's hope Bethesda decide to detonate a nuclear weapon at next E3 as a Fallout 3 promotion.

[edit]

Will BioWare's unprecedented hot streak continue with the release of this epic sci-fi RPG?

I'm not a violent man, but if I heard someone voice this out loud, or witnessed them write it, I'd probably snap.

 

[Elwro]

You could turn on a similar dialogue system in Blade Runner. How is this innovative?

 

[Ratty]

Again BioWare try to claim an innovation that was first introduced decades ago. I seem to recall that Under a Killing Moon used topic shorthands in place of full-length responses to create more cinematic conversations. That was... when? Oh, right, in 1994.

Not to mention that I have seen the same concept at least a dozen times since, the most recent instance being the very dynamic conversation system in Fahrenheit / Indigo Prophecy.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You could turn on a similar dialogue system in Blade Runner.

Star Command way, way back in the 1980s used something like this for ship to ship hailing. You know, back when disk space, memory, etc. were all really limited.

How is this innovative?

Because BioWare dug it up.

 

[Spazmo]

This could be alright if you still have full dialog written for each NPC (or at least each NPC important enough to have dialog), but it could be horrible if they go too far towards the Morrowind model.

 

[NOVD]

http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox-360/bioware-rpg-unnanounced/707726p1.html

Although the game has a ton of promising elements, nothing impressed us as much as the innovative conversation system, which essentially allows characters to carry on discussion with NPCs in real time. You'll be able to interact with any character you meet in the game, but rather than simply selecting a phrase from a standard menu (like you did in Jade Empire and KotOR), you'll be able to use the analog stick to point to any one of several phrases around a wheel. If that sounds confusing, it's because, at first, it's hard to get your head around the concept. However, while previous games made you wait until the other character finished speaking, you'll be able to select your response at any time, allowing you to carry on a full conversation in real time. A moving camera will focus on whichever character is speaking, and you'll actually be able to hear your character's voice and see him talk, which is another departure from BioWare's other games.

Does that mean you get to interrupt people? I never really had a problem with speaking completely in turns, but the ability to interrupt people would be cool.

 

[Deacdo]

How can it be "innovative" if it has been done so many times before? The fact that you use an analog stick rather than a mouse doesn't make it "innovative".

 

[Twinfalls]

This is a horrible, horrible trend.

Note the key phrase:

You'll no longer read the lines and

Why is it that everything else has bigger and bigger budgets - graphics, sound, size of world, etc are bigger, shinier, better, more more MORE!!!

- yet dialogue keeps shrinking? This may be a console game, but its touted as an RPG, by the people touted as the 'premier RPG developers'.

These developers and their fucktard audiences almost deserve each other. One thinks 'I don't want to have to read and make decisions', the other thinks 'I don't want to have to waste money (that could be spent on graphics) on writers, because I'm not interested in aspiring any higher than sales with what I do'

Bethesda and their retarded beyond belief persuasion mini-game - so blatantly an "anything, ANYTHING to get out of writing actual dialogue" kludge.

I wonder what David the Bonoware Writer thinks of this development, given it points to his eventual redundancy...

 

[RAG]

I have to see it in actions but if you have all the dialogue spoken (with subtitles preferably) I see no problem with what they are trying. It might be interesting not to be able to see the full text and wait to see how your character phrases your stated intentions. It might keep your interest on the ongoing conversation and give you an incentive to actually read your characters response, instead of just selecting a phrase, thus making it more usefull for the immersion and the flow of the conversation.

Most cases in games you just select the text and immediately receive the answer since there is no need for you to hear what you just read and chose
What they are trying and if it is executed as I imagine probably is alot more work for them since the responses of the PC must be recorded and played. If that is the case It could be an indication that they might use predefined character for the game if they must have voice overs for every response


if you can have a real conversation and decent dialogue with the NPCs using this system I really cannot see any similarity other than the shape and descriptions with the ridiculous Oblivion minigame.

Also being able to interrupt them sounds cool if it really is the case. If it just queues the answers then its simply retarded

 

[Volourn]

Unlike the Elder Scroll games there is still dialogue lines, people.

"BioWare chose to play through with the stock bald headed guy, and demonstrated a tense conversation with a bartender. Sheperd walked up and engaged the drink distributor politely at first, inquiring where a certain diplomat might be found. When the barkeep bristled and clammed up, Sheperd was given a few conversation options. In the bottom right hand corner of the screen was displayed red circle, split into six sections. Each section described a basic emotional reaction like "I'm not going to go along with this," but not the exact statement that would be uttered. Picking the more forceful, negative reaction of the bunch two times, Sheperd eventually pulled out a gun and aimed it directly at the bartender's face, and subsequently go the location of the diplomat"


I asked on the BIO baords, and they said there were. That said, for me, I'd rather wait to see the dialogue system at work before making final judgement. None of the previews make it clear.

There's supposed to be a10-15 minute video on Gamespot that might show it. I ahven't seen it, because the video doesn't seem to load for me. LOL


btw, Morons, why is the Codex covering a console game in the news section?

Talk about moronicy. You can't even honour your own rules.