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Game News Copper Dreams Kickstarter Update #2: Combat Demonstration Video

Infinitron

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Tags: Copper Dreams; Whalenought Studios

Five days after launch, the Copper Dreams Kickstarter campaign is over halfway towards its funding goal. Today, it received its first substantial update, which offers a detailed look at the game's unique combat system. The update features a ten minute combat video, which demonstrates an ambush scenario on a lone guard which turns into a rather brutal firefight, followed by a textual explanation of the various mechanics shown. It's a simulationist system, relying heavily on physics and environmental modelling rather than on abstract character attributes to determine success or failure. Here's the video and an excerpt:



The core of the combat system is the combat bar, as pictured below. The combat bar shows you the players in combat and their place on the timeline.

Upon joining combat, everyone rolls initiative to see where they are placed on the timeline, and then progress downward. The timeline is moving until one of your characters hits the Turn Bar. The actions of enemies are instantaneously chosen and the timeline continues without a break.

When one of your characters land on the Turn Bar, the timeline stops and they can choose an action. Once selected, that action plays out and the combat bar timeline continues.

During the execution wait time, the length of which is dependent on your action, your character is prepping their action: aiming, re-balancing for a swing, or preparing to use an item. At the Execute Bar they fire off the action, and return to the top of the timeline and resume traveling down again. If more than one action is required (like multi-shot or suppressing fire), the character is held at the action bar until complete.

Any character on the timeline can be interrupted or stalled by suppressing fire, being hit, or even by getting bio-hacked. With simultaneous actions, there can be weapon draws to see who can get their shot off first, determined by speed and a weapon's action time.

When NPCs die, they leave behind a big flesh pile that's sure to raise suspicion. To diffuse this situation it's recommended you pick up up the body and throw it somewhere. A body can also be used as a good decoy, or a perfectly acceptable d8 blunt damage roll by heaving it into enemies.

According to the update, there's going to be some sort of interview with more details about the combat system later on, as well as an additional combat video demonstrating a more elaborate party-based scenario. So stay tuned.
 

Fenix

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The graphic honestly is much better then I expect it to be.
I have not slept for 24 hours, so I need to sleep before I can say something profound or abstruse.
 

Sensuki

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Oh, it will be different in the full game. The wound system and hit chance modifiers are not properly implemented yet. I posted about that in the other thread. My understanding is the video was more to demonstrate how the time-based execution and combat mechanics work. I agree that that particular encounter looks very sloggy and possibly gives the wrong impression (Joe got some very bad die rolls :lol:). In the tech demo I've killed a guy in 2-3 hits, but I got better dice rolls and I had two characters shooting at him.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-kickstarter-live.103709/page-19#post-4541896

I'm sure they'll tweak something and have more party members/enemies so it looks more fun and lethal in the next video.
 
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On paper, it seemed more lethal than the 5 shots to kill a bloke thing here.

Really?

nUQVp7f.png


These ailments are the result of D8 die rolls that vary based on weapons used. The ailments fall into three categories, lesser, greater and mortal, each with its own cap that is increased or decreased by character creation stats. These ailments don't just inch you closer to death’s doorway, but also decrease your stats until you heal, simulating the weakness that your player should feel if they are fighting with a few bullets in their legs, a broken kneecap and a minor concussion.

"road to death", "accruing wounds", "inch you closer to death's doorway" - all those phrases seem to signal a slower paced combat system where mid-term resource management (minimizing wounds) takes precedence over dealing killshots.
 

ArchAngel

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That is OK but some situations should be able to move the combat towards more deadly. Exchanging shots while standing in open should deal more damage and so should doing first attack vs unsuspecting enemy.
 
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"road to death", "accruing wounds", "inch you closer to death's doorway" - all those phrases seem to signal a slower paced combat system where mid-term resource management (minimizing wounds) takes precedence over dealing killshots.
I don't think that excludes kill shots, just that various variables can minimize the wounds you get. But someone caught out of position with a headshot should get fucked.
 

Jaesun

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The lack of utilizing cover seems odd, but I like the combat so far (selecting different actions/skills) depending on the weapon you have equipped.
 
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The lack of utilizing cover seems odd, but I like the combat so far (selecting different actions/skills) depending on the weapon you have equipped.
The scenario he used to showcase combat structure is just p. terrible. Doesn't look any different from typical stand around and i-hit-you-you-hit-me RPG combat.

But it does seem to have have cover since it's one of the challenge roll modifiers.
 

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The question is, will there be a TACTICOOL mole popping stance when you're in cover?

rp_city8_district90000.jpg


rp_city8_district90001.jpg


rp_city8_district90004.jpg


rp_city8_district90005.jpg
 

Athelas

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Will it be possible to dodge projectiles if they're headed towards you when your turn comes up? I would think so, but there seems to be a 'wait' phase between choosing your command and it being executed.
 
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Will it be possible to dodge projectiles if they're headed towards you when your turn comes up? I would think so, but there seems to be a 'wait' phase between choosing your command and it being executed.
Update says

There are two ways characters can dynamically roll against an attack to be added to the CR, and that's for melee combatants using block and dodge (extensive XP training and stat numbers would be needed for dodging projectiles).
 
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Will it be possible to dodge projectiles if they're headed towards you when your turn comes up? I would think so, but there seems to be a 'wait' phase between choosing your command and it being executed.

Well, they deliberately designed the system so that bullets or "laser projectiles" cannot be evaded through the dodge stat, which is presumably part of a strategy to say "no, you can't dodge bullets". It would be really weird if they circumvented that by allowing you to issue a move order to jump away from a mid-air bullet.

It's strange that you can give any sort of deliberate order at all while a "laser projectile" is hanging in the air in front of you, but I interpret that simply as a natural consequence of their "turn based in real time" system - I don't think it's meant to be a signal that you can do anything about that projectile.
 

Fenix

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Oh, it will be different in the full game. The wound system and hit chance modifiers are not properly implemented yet. I posted about that in the other thread. My understanding is the video was more to demonstrate how the time-based execution and combat mechanics work. I agree that that particular encounter looks very sloggy and possibly gives the wrong impression (Joe got some very bad die rolls :lol:). In the tech demo I've killed a guy in 2-3 hits, but I got better dice rolls and I had two characters shooting at him.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-kickstarter-live.103709/page-19#post-4541896

I'm sure they'll tweak something and have more party members/enemies so it looks more fun and lethal in the next video.
Thanks for pointing this out, because it is important.
Also, I feel myself silly, didn't think\know there is dedicated tread about game lol.
 

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Yes you can currently move out of the way of an enemy aiming at you. If they can't see you when it reaches their execution turn, they can't shoot at you.

The lack of utilizing cover seems odd, but I like the combat so far (selecting different actions/skills) depending on the weapon you have equipped.

At the moment there is a wall-hug animation implemented but it's not currently hooked up to combat. I believe there is an intention to have partial vertical cover, and a lean feature (popamole). Not exactly sure how it will work mechanically, I suppose it's a matter of testing/playing around but the idea is both of those things will be somewhat related to the time aspect of the combat system. In the brainstorming phase I suggested an overwatch action as a countermove to a lean/poke.

I also suggested that it be more difficult to hit units that are moving.
 

Whalenought_Joe

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Will it be possible to dodge projectiles if they're headed towards you when your turn comes up? I would think so, but there seems to be a 'wait' phase between choosing your command and it being executed.

Right now we have two different types of projectiles:

1. Anything with an arc is self sufficient (loosely defined as that at least). When tossed/shot they create a portrait on the timeline at the Turn Bar that Executes on its own, traveling down at the calculated speed until it hits the destination tile chosen. These would be things like arrows, thrown items, missiles, and some poorly constructed raygun types. Characters can move away from these.

2. Projectiles unique to things like ballistics/handguns we just show with a tracer, and those can't be dodged from contacting. If miss via the roll a random point around the target location is chosen instead, and that can still hit other NPCs/background objects in collateral damage.

I think Sensuki explained the rest, but it's a system that's going to continue being tweaked and polished, this is just in an alpha phase but it is translating well into an open battlefield with more tactical enemy AI which was the initial goal. There is a damage roll bonus for hitting a target who hasn't noticed you, but we just wanted to show the flow of combat over a few volleys for folks to get a look at how the timeline worked. We'll be showing a more practical situation later with a full team, the party control options and turn based movement outside of combat.
 

Whalenought_Joe

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2. Projectiles unique to things like ballistics/handguns we just show with a tracer, and those can't be dodged from contacting.

So would the tracer visually curve ever so slightly if the target was moving?

When we have that animate yes, but right now the line is drawn completed from the gun to the target and it just stays for a moment. Unlike the other kind of projectile it's just a visual reflection of rolls behind the scenes, it isn't reactive to it actually reaching the destination.
 

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