Preview Choices in Oblivion

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Another <a href=http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.htm>Oblivion</a> <a href=http://www.gamesradar.com/previews/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=37746&subsectionid=1594>preview</a>, courtesy of <a href=http://www.gamesradar.com>Games Radar</a>:
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<blockquote>As is typical, you can join a guild from the off to improve your skills and exploit the perks of such an allegiance. Four of them are available: Mages, Fighter, Thieves and The Dark Brotherhood.
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Unlike Morrowind, however, the interests and quests of these factions do not overlap, meaning that it's now possible to rise through the ranks of all four independently.
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The first two are a force for good, while thieves are less morally stringent, but still honourable.
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The Dark Brotherhood, however, only offers invitations to those people who have killed an innocent; once you've committed such a murder, you'll be invited to a Brotherhood domicile, a place patrolled by undead guards and draped with paintings of the Nightmother, the matriarch who slays all of her children in the night. </blockquote>Some questions that beg to be asked: Why Mages & Fighters are "a force for good"? What's good about a mercenary organization? If they are good, how can you become the leader of both good and evil factions? What's the logical explanation? They are teh stupid?
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<blockquote>If someone is, say, carrying a diamond that you need, but refuses to hand it over, you can avoid confrontation by stealing all the food from their home, and then offering to buy it once hunger kicks in.</blockquote>This example has been mentioned often, but if you think about, assuming you know how, where is the logic? Wouldn't it make more sense for the diamond guy to go out and look for some herbs and mushrooms, and sell them to shopkeepers than to sell "the precious" right away?
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Bethesda: dumbing games down since we've discovered the console market!
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[FrancoTAU]

I'm not so hot on the idea of being able to join all the guilds. Kind of negates the whole idea of roleplaying your character a certain way if you can do everything.

RE: Robbing a guys' food so he'll go hungry and sell you the diamond. Eh, that's a bit stupid specifically, but i like the general outside the box thinking they're trying to implement.

 

[Micmu]

They don't overlap?
A new name for equator: oblivion.

 

[Twinfalls]

'They don't overlap' is a nice way of saying 'they couldn't be bothered to implement any faction mechanics, or present any meaningful decisions to the player, even when it completely defies logic'.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Wow, Twinfalls, I'm amazed that you know so much about the guild questlines. That's incredible! You must've played Llamagod's leaked copy!

 

[AZ]

Bethesda: dumbing games down since we've discovered the console market!

hehe :mrgreen:

 

[Twinfalls]

Hey MSFD - didn't you read that thread - I've even got the downloadable content already.

I'm looking forward to my Chief-Assassin-cum-Thief-Leader stepping up to the 'Force for GOOD' Mages Guild and getting elected Head Mage.

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ MSFD:

Are you saying that you can't become a leader of all 4 guilds (no matter how difficult it may be)? Because if you can, that tells me right there that there are no meaningful decisons to make (other than "Do I kill this person or Let him live, not that anyone cares" type decisions)

 

[Rulion]

Every time I exit this thread, somebody else makes a new comment. Damn you all.

The fact that the quests don't overlap makes me go "meh". On one hand, it detracts for the character playing aspect of the game. On the other, I hated how some of the quests crossed over one another in MW, forcing me to pick and choose.

Personally, news I don't really know how to react to. Saying "damn!" would make me too much of a hypocrite, since just yesterday I had to make a decision between the Thieves and Fighters Guild. In the end I went for the FG and it pissed me off.

Whatever, though. It's still going to be one of the most enjoyable games this year.

 

[Twinfalls]

The question has to be asked Rulion - was there ever a real choice you had to make in a game which didn't piss you off?

 

[Sol Invictus]

*sigh*

Yet another boring post.

 

[Twinfalls]

From you? Yes, true.

 

[Fodel]

The Dark Brotherhood, however, only offers invitations to those people who have killed an innocent;

Perfect. :D

 

[bryce777]

@ MSFD:

Are you saying that you can't become a leader of all 4 guilds (no matter how difficult it may be)? Because if you can, that tells me right there that there are no meaningful decisons to make (other than "Do I kill this person or Let him live, not that anyone cares" type decisions)

I, for one, look forward to racially cleansing the gameworld. That's the kind of roleplay few games offer!


As for the stealing food thing, that has to be about the silliest thing I have ever heard.

 

[Screaming_life]

The Dark Brotherhood, however, only offers invitations to those people who have killed an innocent;

Perfect. :D

:D i wonder if you're allowed in for "accidental" death? then maybe you could make make use of that totally hawt physics engine and nudge them down some stairs or a particulary erroded cliff top

 

[crpgnut]

I've never thought of the Fighters and Mages guilds being a force for good. I think this was just the reviewer's opinion, not a fact. In Morrowind you could do evil mage quests for the chick in Balmora, or less evil mage quests for the chick in Alderaan This was a choice by the way, VD. Same sort of choices in some of the fighter's guild quests too. The thing is, it didn't make any difference in the end, which I thought it should. I don't mind that if you are playing an evil Battlemage that you can rise to the head of all guilds. If you play a good mage or fighter though, it should be impossible to rise very high in the Dark Brotherhood without being penalized by the good mages and fighter.

Imaginary Scenario-

Say I have several quest givers in Oblivion in each of the four guilds. If I do good deeds for Mage and Fighter quest givers and they raise my rank in the guild, those ranks should be lost if I get caught by a good aligned character. I can still raise ranks in the mages guild but now I have to find an evil sponser to support me. If I choose the route of evil but keep doing good quests/deeds, I should either be hunted down and/or kicked out of the DB.

 

[Fodel]

Funny , but this is a nice feature for a crpg as Oblivion :D , even with "accidental death" :twisted:

 

[Twinfalls]

In Morrowind you could do evil mage quests for the chick in Balmora, or less evil mage quests for the chick in Alderaan This was a choice by the way, VD.

This was a choice?!!! Do I fetch mushrooms for the mad cat-woman, or fetch dwarf trinkets for the other one?

Hahaha ha

ahhh. Cracks me up.

 

[Anoik]

If someone is, say, carrying a diamond that you need, but refuses to hand it over, you can avoid confrontation by stealing all the food from their home, and then offering to buy it once hunger kicks in.

This example has been mentioned often, but if you think about, assuming you know how, where is the logic? Wouldn't it make more sense for the diamond guy to go out and look for some herbs and mushrooms, and sell them to shopkeepers than to sell "the precious" right away?

Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

Maybe he can go out and hunt a deer, if he is good hunting, but maybe he is not a good hunter.

If we steal his diamond, and he don't have money, he will have to do something to get food, but something that he is good at.

 

[Anoik]

If someone is, say, carrying a diamond that you need, but refuses to hand it over, you can avoid confrontation by stealing all the food from their home, and then offering to buy it once hunger kicks in.

This example has been mentioned often, but if you think about, assuming you know how, where is the logic? Wouldn't it make more sense for the diamond guy to go out and look for some herbs and mushrooms, and sell them to shopkeepers than to sell "the precious" right away?

Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

Maybe he can go out and hunt a deer, if he is good hunting, but maybe he is not a good hunter.

If we steal his diamond, and he don't have money, he will have to do something to get food, but something that he is good at.

 

[geminito]

"From the off", this article seems to be nothing but wind out of the Games Radar ass. 4 guilds? In addition to the 4 listed, there is the Arena Guild. And another I can't remember being talked about in other previews.

Or did Bethesda axe all but 4 guilds?

And I'm sure the preview is wrong that the fighter's guild and mage guild are "good". They certainly weren't good or evil in Morrowind.

Why post such shit articles on Codex? Isn't there enough Oblivion "news" here already?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

Do you need to have any skills to collect ingredients? No. Do you need to have some kinda book? No. Why place such restrictions on NPCs then?

Or did Bethesda axe all but 4 guilds?

Looks that way. Many previews mentioned only 4 guilds.

Why post such shit articles on Codex? Isn't there enough Oblivion "news" here already?

We post most RPG related articles, we are the daily news site, after all.

 

[HardCode]

The Dark Brotherhood, however, only offers invitations to those people who have killed an innocent; once you've committed such a murder, you'll be invited to a Brotherhood domicile, a place patrolled by undead guards and draped with paintings of the Nightmother, the matriarch who slays all of her children in the night.

It's shit like this that fucking PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF about the asshole PR department. This bit of information should DEFINITELY be left for the player to figure out. But Tardthesda PR's department would rather not OFFICIALLY CONFIRM if spears, or Mark & Recall, etc are in the game or not. They'd rather, in the RARE event they give squat about the game, reveal shit that has no business in a review - rather best left to the players to find out about.

 

[Anoik]

Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

Do you need to have any skills to collect ingredients? No. Do you need to have some kinda book? No. Why place such restrictions on NPCs then?

Yes, you can collet ingredients without skill, but you don't know if that mushroom is useful or not for something. Will you collect all mushrooms and herbs you can find in the forest? will you go tho the shopkeeper with a lot of bags full of herbs and mushrooms?.

The npcs have similar restrictions than you. And we have choices, we don't have only one way of make a quest. We need the diamond. How to get it?. We can bribe him, we can steal it, we can kill him and take the diamond, we can steal his food and money and then pay him for the diamond, because he is hungry and he need the money for food. But he can go out and hunt a deer, or he can steal food or money, all based in his AI. Before we have some choices, and some ways of make something. Now, with that new AI, we have more ways of make something.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

Do you need to have any skills to collect ingredients? No. Do you need to have some kinda book? No. Why place such restrictions on NPCs then?

Yes, you can collet ingredients without skill, but you don't know if that mushroom is useful or not for something. Will you collect all mushrooms and herbs you can find in the forest? will you go tho the shopkeeper with a lot of bags full of herbs and mushrooms?.

We aren't talking about realism here as selling a diamond to buy a sandwich is much more stupid. The point is what the acceptable and most logical behavior in the gameworld is. If you need quick cash, you can run and collect some herbs and mushrooms, and sell them to most merchants. If your character can do, NPCs should be able to do that too. Simple as that and no other explanation is required.

The npcs have similar restrictions than you. And we have choices, we don't have only one way of make a quest. We need the diamond. How to get it?. We can bribe him, we can steal it, we can kill him and take the diamond, we can steal his food and money and then pay him for the diamond, because he is hungry and he need the money for food. But he can go out and hunt a deer, or he can steal food or money, all based in his AI. Before we have some choices, and some ways of make something. Now, with that new AI, we have more ways of make something.

More ways are good. Retarded ways that only an idiot can enjoy are bad.