Redacted

[Kalin]

Redacted

 

[ElectricOtter]

Dammit, I was going to make this thread. Oh well.

Back on topic, I voted Trakovites (militant). IMO, they were the only faction in the entire series that could actually solve the problems of Shaping in the long term.

 

[Micmu]

Radical Shapers, no doubt.
Eradicate rogue servile SCUM - who the hell they think they are - kill everyone who doesn't agree with you or acts disrespectful.

 

[Von Paulus]

Pragmatic.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Nice...and difficult. Do we go with the faction's early ideals, or with where they end up. The Trakovites start off looking pretty nutty, and for me the Shapers in general went from bad (G1) to 2nd-best-after-serviles (G2), to evil (G4), and then by G5 the world is so fucked that you know that they're early guys had a point, except now they're doing all the same stuff as the other side/s.

Most games I went with the servile end of the revolution, and then maybe the batshit-crazy-evil (Barzites etc) or the Drayks-pwn-everyone ending for some lulz. But hard choices, hard choices. Especially because in the early games some of the loyalist options are actually genuinely hard with their ultra-low cannister-use tolerance caps for the good endings.

Ended up going with the 'Trakovites (militant' but that's clearly a late-entry (G5) inspired option, as wiping out the shaping tech that the world depends upon for agriculture, buildings, medicine and freaken everything seems absurd until things really get screwed up.

If I could cast a 2nd vote, it would be for the Rebels, for those early idealistic days when it was all about freeing the serviles, before the drayk alliance became necessary and when 'shaping tech leakage / arms-race' was just an idle possibility:-(.

Third would be a tie between the traditionalist (in the early games) and reformist/pragmatic (late games) Shapers.

 

[racofer]

The Kings of Kameradens.

 

[Xor]

I haven't played the Geneforge games. Where's the kingcomrade option?

 

[Azrael the cat]

The Geneforge series features many different factions the player can join, cooperate with or fight against. Some factions are fairly similar while others are quite unique. I thought it would be interesting to see some discussion on them and hear about your personal favourites.

Presented above are the major factions I could think of from the five games. The Shaper sect in particular is represented by several different options, so as to better reflect its various ideological elements. Below are some brief explanations on each:

Pragmatic shapers would be those who are relatively unconcerned with tradition and are open to new ideas. A good example would be Astoria. The term radical, while also applicable, is here chiefly reserved for zealous shapers who are imaginative and unorthodox in their pursuit of enforcing Shaper supremacy, i.e. Taygen. Reactionary shapers would be the good old-fashioned and uncompromising zealots, such as Alwan. The traditionalists would be the typical conservative shapers, generally opposed to change, but much less suicidal and/or extremist than their reactionary and radical counterparts.

If you're going to have the Shapers in their multi-faceted, split, form, from the later games (which is good), you should do the same for the rebels. There definitely needs to be a rebels (serviles/humanoids), rebels (drayks/drakkons) and rebels (just lets kill the Shapers). Or a rebels (moderates), rebels (radicals), rebels (drayks). From memory, the Drayk faction are the Takers in G2, but in later games they're part of the rebel alliance, albeit a part that can very easily splinter off and surprise-sodomise everyone depending on what you do. The Drakkons are...odd. From memory, the serviles actually invent them in G2, and if you follow their path in G2, the servile's plan to start a plausible rebellion is based around stockpiling drakkons and then using them for a sudden massive defensive air superiority (stockpiling a race seems weird if you haven't played the game, but it's basically a summoning/creation system that's the technology at the centre of the setting). Somewhere along the line the drakkons end up drifting over to their 'natural' cousins, the drayks.

 

[Azael]

I only just started Geneforge 5, don't know why I haven't played it earlier since I like the previous game (well, maybe not 3 so much...) a lot.

In the first game, I'd definitely say I liked the Awakened the most, but in the sequel they aren't exactly saints either. The Barzhites were fun for the whole "Power, unlimited power!" thing they had going on though.

Although they are a late faction, I'm a fan of the Trakovites. Especially since their goals are so far from Trajkov himself "preached". Also, siding with Trajkov probably produced the "best" ending in Geneforge 1. I understand that they feature a lot more in the last game, so won't vote until I've finished it at least once.

 

[SCO]

You too could be playing this instead of Dragon Age 2.


Think about it.


I certainly do

 

[Commissar Draco]

Seeing devastation the Unbound brought and meeting Rebellion new jewish Reptilian Overlords cured all the sympathy for creation cause. You can't call Astoria a Shaper anymore as she do nothing to help the Shaper cause, same as the dick who retreated to savescum the power and put control rod into your ass. Trakowites are just Luddites and very disillusioned ex Rebels ex Shapers, good for them to see the error of Rebellion but their solution is herp derp. So it only leave Alvan ad Taygen... which ending is better for someone using carnisters a lot?

 

[Nim]

Taygens solution is worse than all the others, killing of your whole economy just so you can kill most enemy creations too (except the most dangerous ones ofc) is just derp. Alwan -> Taygen by a longshot. And don't take the ending texts too serious, they were afaik not written by the same person who wrote the game text. There are some things in there that don't make a lot of sense given ingame characterization like Alwan being merciful

 

[Gondolin]

I prefer the moderates of both sides. The people have the right to dump the Shapers and organize themselves as they see fit. Naturally, both sides should keep an eye on shaping.The drakkons are a different matter. As a human supremacist, I think they should be removed from positions of power and their numbers should be thinned to keep them from causing trouble.

Dammit, I was going to make this thread. Oh well.

Back on topic, I voted Trakovites (militant). IMO, they were the only faction in the entire series that could actually solve the problems of Shaping in the long term.

The only problem with shaping is that it ended up in the hands of humans, same as technology and same as magic, if it existed. And you can't "solve" that.

 

[Dayyālu]

Traditional Shapers.
They kept the world in good order, created a nice multikultural empire (yer free to believe in what you want, as long as you do not even think of treachery) and in most cases used the power with wisdom, and cared about their creations.
I do not see much difference from Alwan and the Traditional view.

It's depressing to realize that Vogel created almost good settings in the past.

And don't take the ending texts too serious, they were afaik not written by the same person who wrote the game text.

Who wrote them?

 

[Nim]

And don't take the ending texts too serious, they were afaik not written by the same person who wrote the game text.

Who wrote them?

Iirc Linda Strout did but as I can't find where I read it atm better take it as speculation.

 

[TOME]

What is the Sholai view of world? I might go with them since the rest ended up batshit crazy.

 

[Pope Amole II]

And don't take the ending texts too serious, they were afaik not written by the same person who wrote the game text. There are some things in there that don't make a lot of sense given ingame characterization like Alwan being merciful

It's especially retarded in the pure rebel ending.

Spoiler

I mean, you've been dumbfuck enough to let drakons win and the world is obviously fucked - they never showed much appreciation for smaller races, even for drayks, so now that everyone else has outlived their usefulness... But no, you and your spunky teams of rebels have learned how to defeat shapers so it's a piece of cake to repeat it once again, easily! Except that you've only survived against shapers only due to support of drakons and, specifically, Unbound Ones (which is now turned against you) and significant part of shaper kills was made through stealth and covert attacks, but that doesn't work as well against hulking armored brute made of magic as it works against some puny humans. Not to mention that shapers lost so much to the rebels because they've played by the rules while drakons are bound by no such limitations.

TL;DR version - in that ending drakons should've fucked everyone else, but no, all endings need to be happy (except for Taygen's because he's a nazi; not that I'm pro-nazi or smth, but that reference was too plain and too obvious and too irritating in the otherwise not-so-black-and-white Geneforge setting).

As for myself, I'm probably with radical shapers, though not with Taygen. His solution is not that horrible, tbh (like, yeah, the whole economy is destroyed, but if drakons win, there won't be anyone to care about that shit), but he was too badly done to feel good about siding with him. Nah, I was more of a hypocritical zealot type, meaning that I believed in the system and instilled it as hard as I could for the greater good (because rebels range from retarded terrorists to dumbfuck liberals with their "oh, let's give everyone weapons of mass destruction and everything will turn out just fine - it fucking won't", while serviles have clearly shown that they're not capable of living decent lives under themselves), however, if that aforementioned greater good demanded a usage of canister or two to promote it, I was never against it. Can't win a war without a sacrifice or two, y'know. Not to mention that the six canister limit is actually huge and most geneforge games don't have more useful canisters than that.

 

[Nim]

And don't take the ending texts too serious, they were afaik not written by the same person who wrote the game text. There are some things in there that don't make a lot of sense given ingame characterization like Alwan being merciful

It's especially retarded in the pure rebel ending.

Spoiler

I mean, you've been dumbfuck enough to let drakons win and the world is obviously fucked - they never showed much appreciation for smaller races, even for drayks, so now that everyone else has outlived their usefulness... But no, you and your spunky teams of rebels have learned how to defeat shapers so it's a piece of cake to repeat it once again, easily! Except that you've only survived against shapers only due to support of drakons and, specifically, Unbound Ones (which is now turned against you) and significant part of shaper kills was made through stealth and covert attacks, but that doesn't work as well against hulking armored brute made of magic as it works against some puny humans. Not to mention that shapers lost so much to the rebels because they've played by the rules while drakons are bound by no such limitations.

TL;DR version - in that ending drakons should've fucked everyone else, but no, all endings need to be happy (except for Taygen's because he's a nazi; not that I'm pro-nazi or smth, but that reference was too plain and too obvious and too irritating in the otherwise not-so-black-and-white Geneforge setting).

G4 rebel ending was fitting, you kind of knew what was going to happen, but I was still hoping it wouldn't be too bad.

Spoiler

drakons release the unbound, shapers can't beat them so they say fuck it and use the same unrestricted shaping the rebels do, still lose, massive destruction everywhere

That's how you do it, not with some lame deus ex machina just so that the players get their happy end.

As for myself, I'm probably with radical shapers, though not with Taygen. His solution is not that horrible, tbh (like, yeah, the whole economy is destroyed, but if drakons win, there won't be anyone to care about that shit), but he was too badly done to feel good about siding with him.

His final solution would have been fine if the shapers were with the back at the wall. They weren't though, Alwan was holding the rebels back despite Astoria being traitor scum, Taygen ineffective and Rawal being Rawal. And yeah, the Taygen=Hitler thing is really obvious.

, while serviles have clearly shown that they're not capable of living decent lives under themselves),

Have to disagree completely here, G1 & 2 serviles did fine on their own.

Not to mention that the six canister limit is actually huge and most geneforge games don't have more useful canisters than that.

Most of them have no consequences for canister use anway (1,2 & 5), only 4 and 3 have some.

 

[Dayyālu]

Most of them have no consequences for canister use anway (1,2 & 5), only 4 and 3 have some.

I dimly remember that in G2, if you sided with the 'Traditional Shapers' (those in the hidden camp) you were imprisoned or stuff like that if you used too many canisters.

What is the Sholai view of world? I might go with them since the rest ended up batshit crazy.

None,I think. The other Sholai were the 'merry band of explorers' from their far away Not!Russia that casually landed on Sucia Island. It was not even possible to side with them, always if I remember right.

 

[Pope Amole II]

His final solution would have been fine if the shapers were with the back at the wall.

Yeah, if Vogel wasn't so bent on this stupid, out of place anti-fascism bent, he could've played it smarter.

Spoiler

Like, Taygen could've completed the formula with your help, but wouldn't use it immediately, saving it as an intimidation/last resort thing. Like an atomic bomb, practically. Even if he released it later (in lieu of desperate creations attack, for example), at least it would've been justlified. Not to mention that extreme shaper butthurt, caused by its use, and poetic justice via killed consort looked extremely silly and out of place.

Have to disagree completely here, G1 & 2 serviles did fine on their own.

TBH, G1 and G2 are great games because their moral is extremely gray, thus making everything arguable. There are some serious justifications about serviles being incapable of building their own country.

Spoiler

First and foremost, psychological problems. I'm not even talking about Takers & their bloody retarded cults - even amongst your civilized servile cities you still see plenty of not so mentally capable serviles. Sure, there are some normals there, but are they enough to make a nation?

Second, serviles don't give a damn about restrictions in magic & shaping and that will hurt them. Just look at the awakened in G2 - they're overshaping their land to be fertile (and it's plainly said to you during the game that it will bite them in the ass several years later), they're not picky about whom they deal with (I'm meaning the clearly less than sane head of their shaping facility or the fact that they're summoning demons and crap like that), their best defense plan is breeding drakons like shit (sure, magically controlled drakons, but yeah, there ain't a thing that couldn't go wrong with a plan like that).

Third, shapers have managed to achieve a pretty peaceful world with only occasional wars (an astounding achievement from the real-world perspective, really), while we see serviles as being in state of constant civil war against each other (and then, shapers).

Of course, all of that is kinda subjective, yet I've never found any kind of servile being more or less sympathetic.

Most of them have no consequences for canister use anway (1,2 & 5), only 4 and 3 have some.

Yeah, canister consequences should've been harsher. Well, maybe not in 1 (as the whole idea of canister making you barmy wasn't fully developed there yet, besides, playing that game without canisters is a freaking chore), but in later games - definitely.

 

[Nim]

Most of them have no consequences for canister use anway (1,2 & 5), only 4 and 3 have some.

I dimly remember that in G2, if you sided with the 'Traditional Shapers' (those in the hidden camp) you were imprisoned or stuff like that if you used too many canisters.

http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=218118 Last post says otherwise. Could you be thinking of G4 ? If you help the shapers while using too many canisters you will be under house arrest later iirc.

Nice post Pope, I can mostly agree with that, just going to clarify

Spoiler

the Awakened not being picky who they deal with is unfair as Tuldaric was a normal shaper when he began helping them. But he started using the canisters and since then mostly ignores the Awakened and spends his days summoning demons and crap. Not the serviles fault really. And I'm pretty sure they weren't gonna control the winged drakons

Though I like the Awakened so I may be biased, I'll try to remember to look at these next time I play it.

 

[TOME]

I remember that the awakened had a couple skeleton in their closet too. They had bloodstains in their dungeons and they were keeping the population of the other two camps under control.

I dimly remember that in G2, if you sided with the 'Traditional Shapers' (those in the hidden camp) you were imprisoned or stuff like that if you used too many canisters.

I too remember this.

 

[Nim]

I remember that the awakened had a couple skeleton in their closet too. They had bloodstains in their dungeons and they were keeping the population of the other two camps under control.

The Obeyers were keeping the Awakened and Takers in G1 under control, neither are the Awakened controlling anybody in G2. And if you blame them for killing servant minds that were trying to get them back under control then

I dimly remember that in G2, if you sided with the 'Traditional Shapers' (those in the hidden camp) you were imprisoned or stuff like that if you used too many canisters.

I too remember this.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4274/loyalist7wb3.png
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7444/canon7pg7.png

 

[TOME]

It seems my memory fails me. It was indeed the Obeyers I was thinking. Was the imprisonment also in G1 if you used too many canisters?

 

[Esterhaze]

If one were planning to try the Geneforge series, which one is the best one to start on?