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Yet another Piracy: Good or Bad? discussion

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by fantadomat, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    I don't expect any such thing. But consider: Mozart created all of his great works in a time when copyrights simply didn't exist at all. Yet somehow, he still managed to get paid and live and die like a rockstar. Are you saying that the crud people turn out today is somehow better than Mozart? How did stuff ever get created at all back then?
     
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  2. the_shadow Arcane

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    You previously stated that you wouldn't pay people who monitored your security cameras and notified the police. So yeah, you do expect people to give up their time (watching the security footage) and expertise (distinguishing what it suspicious activity vs. what is not, which would require some experience to do well) for free.

    Mozart was hired to compose and perform for the benefit of aristocrats and royalty. CDs and digital distribution didn't exist back in those days, so he didn't need to worry about freeloaders recording his performances and sharing them on some sort of 18th century internet.

    Who cares? Obviously the 'crud' that is being turned out has some value if software pirates are willing to spend their finite time consuming it.

    Artists had creative skills that were hard to replicate, and rich sponsors who were willing to pay for those creative skills.
     
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  3. Mengsk Unwanted

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    If you make good products, then you got nothing to worry about, piracy will be a total non-issue for you, because people will actually buy your good product.

    If you make shit products, then what do you expect? People who make shit products, are often also the ones who chase pirates the most, kind of ironic isn't it? ;)

    No, becuse they know, killing away pirates, is the best way to get innocent people to buy-in to their crappy shit, before its too late.

    You don't deserve money if you cant create something that's worth something to other people.

    If you can't do that, then being creative isn't for you. Go work a desk office job for the rest of your life like the rest of us and shut the fuck up about piracy.
     
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  4. Parabalus Arcane

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    Honestly pirating stuff today is at its most pointless point yet, since games are getting updates more frequently than ever and Denuvo mostly insures that you need to buy them to get them, I reckon it'll only get "worse".



    Location: San Diego

    You might wanna consider that game costs are mostly constant across the globe - supporting a gaming hobby is much more unfeasible on a third world salary than a first world one.
     
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  5. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    It's a gambling scheme because becoming a rockstar requires equal measures of luck and skill. How many dogshit games have won the lottery because some pewdiepie equivalent took a look at it on a total lark? Some of the dishonest bullshit it encourages is bribing people like that, but also misrepresenting the game through marketing (how many times have you seen trailers that don't even show gameplay?) and intentionally crippling a product to reap more sales (recent dynasty warriors scandal is a good example.)

    An ideal commission based system would be something centrally funded where creators were paid based on popularity of previous work and approval for the concept while access to everything were free. So for example, Fromsoft goes to the kickstarter bank and requests funding to make a new Armored Core game. Crowd goes wild, and they have an excellent reputation, so the kickstarter bank gives them a big pile of cash to make an awesome game without pulling a bunch of strings the way publishers do. OTOH, Koei tries to do the same thing and get a pittance because they've fucked their fanbase over by making a shit game.

    And since everyone has access to as many games as they care to try here, their tastes will be far, far better than some asshat who's only ever played 5 games and thinks 3 of them were each successively the best games ever made.
     
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  6. the_shadow Arcane

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    Except for the freeloaders who pirate it because they claim to not have the money (usually nonsense) or don't see the point of paying for something when they can break the law with impunity (usually the honest answer). Such logic is just as absurd as claiming that a retail store that is turning a profit shouldn't attempt to take measures to minimize losses due to shrinkage.

    To have a low pricing point and few sales. Not for people to breach copyright law and steal my intellectual property, peruse it, and then complain about how terrible it is. It's no different from stealing a gourmet meal that smells terrible and tastes bad after a few bites, but then you continue to eat it all and complain about how terrible the meal was. So software pirates aren't just lazy freeloaders, they also tend to be either pretty stupid, or masochists. Little wonder they haven't produced any creative works that can command a price on the free market.

    I don't agree with this. Very successful and profitable games tend to have complex DRM to protect their product, and movies that made a healthy profit still have the rights holders monitoring torrents for illegal sharing.

    Boy, how ever did consumers receive feedback on a particular product without oodles of people stealing it and then whining about how terrible the product was?

    Agreed. That's why software pirates rarely have made a profit from anything artistic that they have created. If they had, you might get a little upset at people breaching intellectual property laws that deny them the money that are legally entitled to when someone acquires their product.
     
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  7. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    You've got nothing but baseless accusations, pet theories, and ad hominems. I've spent thousands of dollars on this hobby over the years, the idea that I could have just quintupled my budget to also buy all the things I didn't feel were worth buying is as absurd as the idea that I've harmed the industry.
    Sheet music, dumbass.
    They didn't, you moron. Hucksters rode into town, sold snake oil, and got the fuck out before they could be lynched for scamming everyone.
    Actually, it's like refusing the meal after getting a smell, leaving, and having the restaurant demand you pay for their plate of feces you enjoyed the smell of while their paying customers get made at you for telling people to avoid the place.
     
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  8. the_shadow Arcane

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    Nope.

    Nope.

    Nope.

    So?

    You're arguing against strawmen. I don't have a problem with someone not buying a computer game, I have a problem with them breaching copyright law.


    Because they used to photocopy sheet music back in those days, and everyone could reproduce the music from the sheets with Mozart's level of skill? If it were so easy to copy and reproduce Mozart's work, there would have been no need for the aristocrats and royalty to pay him outrageous fees to be their court musician. They could have just hired any random villager, handed them a copy of Mozart's symphonies, and paid them peanuts.

    Haha, good stuff. I think you've been watching too many Westerns. In the real world most businesses survive or fail based on the feedback of paying customers.


    If you play the game, you've consumed it, and I strongly suspect most software pirates don't stop at a nibble. The claim that software pirates are doing other consumers a 'favour' by breaching intellectual property rights and then nobly providing feedback on the product they stole is dubious at best, and I suspect it's used in most cases to justify an immoral action by a lazy and entitled individual who has never contributed anything significant to society creativity-wise. Indeed, I'd argue that paying customers would be far better off without the phenomenon of digital piracy, as that would remove the incentive for software developers to put intrusive DRM in their games.
     
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  9. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Your whinging about pirates not being creative rings a little hollow considering most artists on the internet are using pirated software to create their work. Your crusade against victimless crime is rather hypocritical considering you don't give a rats ass about other, similar crimes and likely commit many of them yourself.

    The rest of your argument is old hat; we've already gone over why you can't consume an idea.
     
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  10. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. taxalot I request a spice shipment immediately. Patron

    taxalot
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    This debate really is moving things forwards on the piracy issue.

    For me, a grown up, the choice is made, and it is shameless : money spent on games is money not spent on family needs and activities, it's money not spent on saving up for the future. Ultimately, buying a game is a selfish choice if, on the other hand I can get it for free.
    My gaming money is limited to an absolute minimum ; I'm saving on a separate personal account to upgrade my hardware when I need, and that's about it.

    Last game I think I actually bought was Grimoire. Did not even play it. I think that brings closure.

    I have less guilt in filling my library with quality prints/editions of good books and spending good money there. Ultimately, even if that loses value, it still has a physical, decorative quality, and it will be passed on. It will endure. An additional line on my Steam list ? LOL.
     
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  12. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

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    Yup,between buying some decline shlock or buying food for the family for a week....yeah it is not even a choice.
     
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  13. taxalot I request a spice shipment immediately. Patron

    taxalot
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    Conversations that never happen :

    "Darling I'm spending 60$ on the Steam sales."
    "Can't you have all those games for free ?"
    "I NEED TO SUPPORT VIDEO GAME DEVELOPERS !!§1§1§"
     
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  14. the_shadow Arcane

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    Which supports my suspicion that most software pirates *can* afford the games, they just won't pay if they can obtain it for free by breaking the law. It's rather ironic that leftists are branded as entitled when they demand free healthcare or education (which arguably aren't luxuries), but software pirates aren't when they expect someone to give them their time, expertise and money in the form of a luxury good. Essentially, software pirates expect creators to be their part time slave, and are far more entitled that your average leftist.
     
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  15. Norfleet Moderator

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    No, that's the thing, you missed my point: I don't expect them to do anything at ALL, because I'm not paying for a service. I'm just not STOPPING them from doing so. It is your choice whether or not to watch, and then to do so.

    Except Music Piracy was TOTALLY a thing back then. In fact, Mozart invented music piracy!
     
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  16. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Hahahaha a conversasion that happens
    "Bitch stop downloading because i am downloading some shit netflix tv series "
    "Fuck off cunt! I am downloading some european drama that we will watch before fucking!!!!"
    "Ok dear,as long as there is a sweaty fucking with a lot of dirty shit! Now i will go and get drunk as a respectable Slav "
     
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  17. the_shadow Arcane

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    If they said they would monitor your security cameras for a fee, then you had them do so and refused to pay, that would unethical. And that's analogous to what is happening when intellectual property laws are broken. The owner of the intellectual property will allow you to peruse their software that they developed using their time, expertise, and money, if you pay them the specified amount of money. If you peruse their software and then feel that you shouldn't have to pay, that's entitlement and theft.


    Your article notes that even back then sheet music was kept under lock and key, and the Catholic Church threatened to *excommunicate* individuals who copied their music. So intellectual property was indeed a thing even back in Mozart's day, and there were restrictions in place to prevent it. It's also worth noting that the article you posted makes clear that the music Mozart allegedly pirated was done mostly from memory and by attending church when the music was playing to remedy any inaccuracies, which is far trickier than your average freeloading software pirate just torrenting a game, again supporting my argument that developers of intellectual property in Mozart's day weren't so susceptible to theft of their creative content. So, yeah, thanks for providing me with a source that supports my own position.
     
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  18. Norfleet Moderator

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    You wouldn't remember a car!
     
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  19. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

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    Actually yes, people do that.

    You are clearly clueless about people who can't really afford to throw money away on impulses.

    "You would buy immediately". Day 1 purchase everything!!!! :lol: :lol:
    Yeah, sure thing bro, anyone can afford to buy anything they want at all times, they just choose not to. :lol:
    What a dumbfuck.

    And if you complain about buying during sales, then how about complaining about sales in the first place?
    Surely people who wait for 50% or 75% sales or worse, humble bundles, are at least as bad as pirates since they clearly have money to spend, they just don't want to spend too much of them.
    Why don't you blame those kind of sales for the devaluation of games to the point that it become a standard to wait for sales and thus the maximum people are willing to pay goes lower and lower.

    It's funny seeing those or even key-beggers taking a higher moral stance against pirates. :lol:

    But sure, those who buy on sales are helping the developers and PC gaming... except if they pirated the game before! Then they're evil because clearly they avoided to pay the universal God given price of the game!


    Why not? Because a demo might make you not want to buy the game? Guess why they stopped doing demos?

    And what do you subscribe to? Buying anything blindly with no possibility of returning it? Don't give me the steam 2 hours bullshit. For a long time that was not available and they only did that so their support doesn't have to deal with so many technical issues since in 2 hours you can see if the game won't even fucking start on your computer.
    But 2 hours is hardly enough to tell if many games are worth throwing away your money on them. At least in the games I'm interested in, not the 5-hour average walking sims and corridor shooters of today.
     
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  20. the_shadow Arcane

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    Haha, yeah, software pirates usually pirate games so that they can just 'sample' them and see if they are worth spending money on.

     
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  21. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

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    Haha lolol haha yeah, everyone has money to buy any game they want all times without even checking if it's worth it! Haha lolo yeah!

    I don't know if it's "usually", but it is a thing people do.

    However, I realize it's irrelevant for a dumbfuck retard like you , because even if they delete the game after deciding it's not worth it or actually buy it after they still broke copyright law, and shouldn't have done it.
     
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  22. the_shadow Arcane

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    Hahah, yeah, I'm sure most software pirates are just 'sampling' a small portion of the game, like how people used to eat a grape before deciding if they wanted to buy a whole bunch :roll:. And yes, if you illegally download a game, play some of it, and then delete it, you *have* broken copyright law and stolen someone's time and expertise. The incentive to pay the requested price for a service/good drops drastically if the service/good has already been consumed.
     
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  23. Viata Arcane

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    Nice thread guys, will keep downloading pirate versions of games, may buy some of them. :mixedemotions:
     
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  24. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Well that depends on the quality of the thing in question. If it's of high enough quality that I now have more respect for the developers, my incentive to buy the game goes up.
     
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  25. Zer0wing Learned

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    To be honest, slavs have better internet than yurop and united states.
     
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