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KickStarter Xenonauts - XCOM-like set during the Cold War

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Ulminati

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Xnaut aliens have psi and plasma cannons that fill the same roles :M
 
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Ulminati

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Because you encounter mutons with blaster bombs right at the start of the old XCOM games...
 

34scell

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I've never seen early alien leaders or engineers carry blaster bombs. Presumably, as with heavy plasma, you have to wait for the potential alien weapon value to scale up over time. You can get Sectoid leaders in early terror missions, however.
 
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I've never seen early alien leaders or engineers carry blaster bombs. Presumably, as with heavy plasma, you have to wait for the potential alien weapon value to scale up over time. You can get Sectoid leaders in early terror missions, however.

Yeah, but it happens at what, second month? Psi takes more time to become common, through.

UFO type determines both alien ranks and what they are armed with.

Psi aliens = Sectoid leaders/commanders and all ethereals. Leaders and Commanders are in Terror Ships (1 leader) and Battleships (leaders and Commanders), along with the missions they do (Terror mission, Base Attack/Base Defense). Blaster Bombs appear on commanders, I think leaders can only get it on the Battleships and Battleship missions.

If you get an early base defense in XCOM you'll fight a commander with a Blaster Launcher.

And a fuckload of Cyberdiscs too. Enjoy the rape.

TBH the cyberdisks are pretty easy usually. The Psi-capable aliens are more deadly. Which is why I laugh at people who make "defensible" bases when those bases end up getting mind-raped while you patiently wait for the alien to come through a choke point. Better to use the default base and rush to quickly paint the hangers blood red so that everything is either dead or panicing by turn 3. Also Proximity Grenades everywhere.

I don't get the air war. Seems like you need to drop starting interceptors against anything but the smallest UFOs?
Yeah, starting interceptors are worthless crap and using them in combination with other interceptors drastically slows their movement and therefore their chance of catching the target.
 

Jaedar

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Starting interceptors are good for the two smallest kinds of ufos, anything else is too fast. They're ok against fighters too, but expect long repair times.

The second interceptor also happens to be even worse against the two smallest ufos and fighters so you don't have much choice for a while.
 

Luka-boy

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Condors can be used for a long time, but after a while it starts requiring a lot of micromanagement in the air combat minigame, then two attack waves, then outright luck when trying to catch UFOs in the Geoscape and finally savescumming.

It depends on the player's patience when they become too much of a pain in the ass to use even if they might allow you to save some money on building aircraft that can be used on other things.
 

Sergiu64

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I don't get the dogfight mini-game at all, thank god for auto-resolve. Guess I'll have to try to tech rush to 3rd interceptor next time I try playing.
 

Jaedar

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2 foxtrots and 1 corsair is enough for almost the entire game if you can play the airgame decently. And you only need the corsair for the really tough ones and fighter escorts.
 

Luka-boy

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People seem to have a lot of trouble with the interception mini-game even after all this time. I learned a lot back in the day watching these videos where the player shows many different matches between different interceptor and enemy flight group compositions through the entire game. They're a bit old, but they still apply to the final game for the most part:



Nowadays I find incerceptions almost as fun as ground combat.
 

Norfleet

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Starting interceptors are good for the two smallest kinds of ufos, anything else is too fast.
Too fast is only a problem if you're trying to catch them in a stern chase. Don't do this. Even if you DO have a slight speed advantage, you will burn so much fuel doing it. You can easily intercept faster UFOs if you attack them head-on. Being faster doesn't help them when they're flying into you!

The guy in the first video bungles the approach and takes unnecessary damage at the 6 minute mark, incidentally. If you're in a fight with two Interceptors and each escort picks one, break wide and then cross to attack the other one, so each of you is attacking the guy chasing the other one. You should easily shoot them down with no damage. If they both go after one, then have that one pull while the other one shoots them in the back or side. With few exceptions, you should fly with a wingman: Trying to solo gets a lot more hard and dangerous, although it can be done.

I have never, ever, encountered a situation in which more than two fighters is necessary to take any target, and it is generally not advised to mix types because the faster ones will be slowed down by the slow ones. If you're running into a big ship escorted by fighters, just torpedo the big ship and then run, the fighters give up when their escortee gets nuked. This guy uses way too many resources on a single intercept and they can still be of use even when they are obsolete.

Condors can be used for a long time, but after a while it starts requiring a lot of micromanagement in the air combat minigame, then two attack waves, then outright luck when trying to catch UFOs in the Geoscape and finally savescumming.
Air combat is always a lot of micromanagement, but it's always short, whereas ground can get really long when you're inching along with a squad of 8 guys trying not to burn too many TUs so you run into an alien at the end of your move. Condors go out of style once enemy fighters and scouts stop being the primary encounter and emptying all your guns into a target on both Condors doesn't kill it, but you can always use them to shoot down scouts and fighters, as a single Condor can still down 3 Interceptors, so you can use them to escort the Skyranger. But don't escort by actually including them in the flight group, as they have insufficient range: Escort by flying them together as a separate group and attacking anything that appears.
 
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someone else

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I occasionaly look at some videos but every one I see is just the guy clearing the map, with the Aliens sitting around and waiting to get slaughtered.
Are they playing on easy difficulty or is the AI still a dud?
For UFO missions, mission is completed if all aliens are killed in the UFO and the UFO is held for five turns. So aliens holding the UFO is expected and I usually move towards the UFO guarding my flanks and rear.
You are not expected to clear the map on UFO missions, just capture the UFO.
The aliens outside UFO are more aggressive than XCOM, I think they share memory and they are able to shoot at you when another one spots you.
Were you expecting them to organize an attack on the humans or take defensive positions around the UFO? I'm used to XCOM alien behaviour where you play hide and seek. If they charge you, it is easier as you can take defensive positions and mow them down when they pop up.
 
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Norfleet

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You are not expected to clear the map on UFO missions, just capture the UFO.
Actually, you are expected to clear the map. The "hold the UFO" victory condition is just to avoid the "hunt for the last alien cowering lost somewhere on the map".
 

someone else

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You are not expected to clear the map on UFO missions, just capture the UFO.
Actually, you are expected to clear the map. The "hold the UFO" victory condition is just to avoid the "hunt for the last alien cowering lost somewhere on the map".
Your comment makes no sense.
The mission is completed if you capture the UFO, so why should the player hunt down the aliens, especially if they find it tedious?
Is this some sort of developer info? It is obvious why they include the capture UFO objective and was suggested by me before.
 
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Norfleet

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Your comment makes no sense.
The mission is completed if you capture the UFO, so why should the player hunt down the aliens, especially if they find it tedious?
Is this some sort of developer info? It is obvious why they include the capture UFO objective and was suggested by me before.
You have to read the subtext: This is, essentially, an X-Com remake, with changes to the things the devs found overpowered or annoying. In more than 95% of missions, you're going to win by killing all the aliens. But just as in X-Com, every so often, one alien gets LOST somewhere out there on the map. This result was that you wound up storming the UFO, killing everyone in it, and the mission didn't end. You then spent an incredibly tedious and lengthy several minutes once again inching your way across the map in typical TU-conserving-in-case-you-find-him style, because nobody wants to find an alien just as they run out of TUs...it took forever, and you were hunting down usually one alien straggler. This is, in fact, pretty much 99.9% of the cases when you win by UFO holding: It's ONE alien that's missing.

If you're an X-Com veteran, you remember the annoying part that happens next. Xenonauts devs have removed it. Fundamentally, you're expected to kill all the aliens. The mission objective being written and worded the way it is is essentially a nod that finding that one missing alien is annoying as all hell.

But don't take my word for it: Go ahead and try to win the mission by ONLY taking the UFO, intentionally skipping the aliens not on the UFO. It won't work. You're going to kill them all.
 

someone else

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Your comment makes no sense.
The mission is completed if you capture the UFO, so why should the player hunt down the aliens, especially if they find it tedious?
Is this some sort of developer info? It is obvious why they include the capture UFO objective and was suggested by me before.
You have to read the subtext: This is, essentially, an X-Com remake, with changes to the things the devs found overpowered or annoying. In more than 95% of missions, you're going to win by killing all the aliens. But just as in X-Com, every so often, one alien gets LOST somewhere out there on the map. This result was that you wound up storming the UFO, killing everyone in it, and the mission didn't end. You then spent an incredibly tedious and lengthy several minutes once again inching your way across the map in typical TU-conserving-in-case-you-find-him style, because nobody wants to find an alien just as they run out of TUs...it took forever, and you were hunting down usually one alien straggler. This is, in fact, pretty much 99.9% of the cases when you win by UFO holding: It's ONE alien that's missing.

If you're an X-Com veteran, you remember the annoying part that happens next. Xenonauts devs have removed it. Fundamentally, you're expected to kill all the aliens. The mission objective being written and worded the way it is is essentially a nod that finding that one missing alien is annoying as all hell.
Is this some sort of developer info? It is obvious why they include the capture UFO objective and was suggested by me before.
In the past, I have suggested that to eliminate finding the last alien hiding on the map, to add a hold the UFO alternative mission objective alternative.
Why are you telling me the obvious when I explained that I know the developer reasons and even suggested it before.


But don't take my word for it: Go ahead and try to win the mission by ONLY taking the UFO, intentionally skipping the aliens not on the UFO. It won't work. You're going to kill them all.
I go for the UFO in missions and have won them without killing all the aliens. Sometimes I kill all the aliens on the way there but I have completed a few by holding the UFO for 5 turns, I never have to leave the UFO to find more aliens to kill outside.
Are you saying that the game does not allow you to complete missions if you did not kill all the aliens? Because that isn't true, you just need to hold the UFO for 5 turns.

Is this some miscommunication between us?
Or are you really saying that you need to kill all aliens? because my experience and goggle says otherwise.
 
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Norfleet

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Well, then you know the goal: It is expected that you will kill all the aliens, and your suggestion was adopted to avoid the final hunt-for-the-missing-alien. In practice, the process of securing the area generally kills all the aliens that aren't cowering in a disused corner of the map.

I have no idea what you are saying, is this some miscommunication between us?
Probably.

Or are you really saying that you need to kill all aliens?
It's not technically required, but it is expected that you do so.
 

someone else

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Burning Bridges complained that he watched videos of aliens just sitting around the map which makes it pointless to play this game with dumb AI.
I explained that he does not need to kill aliens outside the UFO and instead go for the UFO.
You are saying to kill aliens instead because the game figuratively expects you.
2 other posters brofist and apparently agree with you, I'm having difficulty understanding people on this forum.
 

Norfleet

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Those people are clearly old X-Com hands. They remember killing all the aliens. Xenonauts, being an X-Com clone, clearly EXPECTS you to kill all the aliens, but being that it cuts out the annoyances, does not require that you do so if one of them gets lost. It is certainly possible that, by sheer chance, you miss an alien, but unless you're playing sloppily and exposing yourself to risk of ambush, you're going to wind up killing them all as a process of sweeping and clearing your way to the UFO...unless one is lost somewhere, in which case you are spared the tedious annoyance of hunting him down.

Your claim that the UFO-take objective was added afterwards at your suggestion is proof that the expectation is total annihilation.
 

someone else

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I'm talking about Burning Bridges comment on poor AI and that he need not kill all aliens on the map, not developers' expectation on killing all aliens, but rather mission objective.
Your comments just makes this confusing.

Game: Kill all aliens or kill all aliens in UFO and hold UFO for 5 turns.
You: Kill all aliens.

Especially:
But don't take my word for it: Go ahead and try to win the mission by ONLY taking the UFO, intentionally skipping the aliens not on the UFO. It won't work. You're going to kill them all.
Sounds like you did not know that you can complete the mission without killing all the aliens.
Have you ever won a UFO mission by killing all aliens in the UFO, then wait 5 turns. The debrief then tells you how many aliens you did not kill?


The developer did not take my suggestion, we and others have the same idea.
 
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Norfleet

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Sounds like you did not know that you can complete the mission without killing all the aliens.
Have you ever won a UFO mission by killing all aliens in the UFO, then wait 5 turns. The debrief then tells you how many aliens you did not kill?
No, I knew this. That's how I know that the number of surviving aliens is generally 1, the guy hiding in the corner somewhere: The lone straggler. But as I pointed out, in 95% of cases, the standard means of sweeping your way to the UFO to make sure nobody is sneaking up on you tends to kill all the aliens. Not once have I ever taken a UFO and left a significant portion of the enemy population unkilled. It's always a lone straggler, or total wipe.
 

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