Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Xenich's War for Rules and Realism in D&D

Discussion in 'The Gazebo' started by Xenich, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. Xenichgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Xenich
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    It has been many years since I was gaming in PnP, I remember the early days of the Gygax (AD&D) vs Arneson (D&D) battles which were basically the STEM majors of the day vs Liberal Arts type majors. It was a constant battle of the story goers wanting to disregard rules and systems to chase some LARPing style of play which carried the hints of what we know today to be the SJW PC crowd BS. I had thought that much of this was solved when Whitewolf and more story focused systems came about where these people ran off to so they could have their complete freedom to ignore logic and reality in their play acting style of play, but apparently every element of PnP has been infected by these idiots?

    It is as I have always said. These people aren't gamers, they are intellectual void nitwits who emotionalize their play which is why they throw tantrums when anyone brings up specifics on rules, statistics, and practical conformity to world physics and play. Watching this sort of destruction over the decades really lowers ones respect for people.
     
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  2. mutonizergender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    mutonizer
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    Usually I spot these when they cannot understand that your roleplay is a consequence of the dice, not the other way around. Hate these fucks going on for hours in the "diplomatic" thinking they're so intelligent talkers only to critical fail the roll afterwards...

    In most group (included the one I described), it was just handled like: "my character does this", "k done".
    Nobody gave a fuck about the "act" itself, apart from wether it happened or not, story wise. Bit like in a cRPG (before all the cutscene bullshit) where you just clicked "kiss xxx" and then it faded to black and it was next day.

    That's my point once again, it was NOT about sex or the orgy, it was about refusing elves (and how the whole orgy was presented). Hence the "warning "talk about racism and homophobia. That's really key.
     
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  3. Xenichgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Xenich
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    Well, I guess I am just from a different era or at least those who I hung around weren't interested in such, even from a 3rd person mention. What we had to be careful in avoiding in our play sessions was a 3 hours argument over terminal velocity and its effect on a supernatural being in magical plate armor. We were all on the far side of the Gygax position, more board game focused than role playing.
     
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  4. Lhynngender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Rules are there to give the game a structure and make it coherent, not to take over.

    Logic and reality in D&D? :lol:

    I dont think youve ever played PnP. also destruction? what the fuck, 3.5 was huge and it was all number based and it still is big enough that people play PF.
     
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  5. mutonizergender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    mutonizer
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    Heh, that's cool too.

    Sadly, I've been stuck in the middle since the late 80s. I'm an avid character-player and a GURPs addict simulationist.
     
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  6. I'm With Her Mustawdgender: ⚧ for prison Self-Ejected

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    Me: "Yes, my character participates in the orgy. He has a great time"
    *rolls dice*

    DM: "Your character has contracted syphilis and two different strains of herpes"
    Me: "Sigh..."
     
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  7. Make America Great Again Tacgnolgender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Tacgnol
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    See now that's where Amber Scott's cleric would have come in handy. Xe could have advised you about safe sex.

    (Or just cast cure disease on you)
     
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  8. Doktor Bestgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    "It has dragons, therefor it is not logical" is such a shit argument, i get angry every time i hear it. ADND has a very logical setting. An altered, transformed form of logic, but nontheless inherent logical. Its one of the most important aspects of a fantasy setting that the rules which define that logic do not contradict themselves or break.
     
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  9. mutonizergender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    mutonizer
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    DM: "While the others are getting undressed and preparing for the night in the main room, the Elven queen turns to you, her mate at her side, and whispers with a smile: Why don't you join us tonight human, your companions seem to be well taken care of"
    Me: "I usually prefer my whores human, and expensive. Thank you, your majesty. <stands up, bows, and leaves>"
     
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  10. Xenichgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Xenich
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    Rules first, story second. Remember, as I said.. I was hard right of camp Gygax who believed rules were very important, but there should be balance. Camp Arneson believed rules were a formality, not important, that it was the story and play that were key.
    our games were statistically focused, about the details and interactions of character development and the restrictions that drove them.

    Ever crack open an AD&D Dungeon masters guide (first edition) and look up the details on various realism physics? The more you talk, the more I think you might be bit too young to understand what I am talking about. When the White wolf games came out, they were strongly focused on story. The entire purpose of play was that of politics, and player to player interactions. It is why the game was a favorite for LARPing. I used to see numerous people out in the parks dressed up as vampires play acting the game with the only details of systems being a "roh sham bo" game to decide conflicts.



    I was playing Chainmail back in the day kid, somehow I think your youthful arrogance and ignorance of this topic is getting in your way of understanding what I am talking about. Call it a generational conflict, but the problem with 3.5 was that even though it added "more" to the table in terms of rules features, it dismissed restrictions which are a strong component in choice and consequence play of a game. Opening up all of the classes to any direction and selection I think diminished game play, it didn't expand it.
     
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  11. Lhynngender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Rules also allow you to jump 30 feet if you have enough ranks, or to pick locks as a free action, this is what happens when rules and numbers take over. Also D&D has no "setting", its a fucking system. The settings designed for it arent all that logical, its mostly contrivances, but at the very least they are coherent. Go ahead and tell me FR is a logical place, or ravenloft, or greyhawk.
    Sure, rules are there to emulate reality, but there are plenty of compromises, and its very far from realistic, starting from HP and going all the way up to the higher abstrations concepts of the system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
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  12. Immortalgender: ⚧ Arcane

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  13. I'm With Her Mustawdgender: ⚧ for prison Self-Ejected

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    :lol:

    That looks absolutely ridiculous.
     
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  14. Murkgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Sealioning, very relevant. Never forget the duckbunny:

    [​IMG]

    fucking spider-horse lol
     
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  15. Xenichgender: ⚧ Cipher

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    I said dungeon masters guide. I was talking about things like terminal velocity and other detailed mechanics on physics and reality to which are brought to the game. Now if someone didn't DM or wasn't heavily interested in AD&D, it is possible they never saw this stuff as it is for the DMs eyes for the most part, but it does establish the point I made.

    As for the Monsters Manual, they got silly because they tried to apply quantity over quality (one of the reasons TSR folded by the way was their over loading the market with so much material in such a short amount of time that they were competing with themselves).
     
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  16. Excidium IIgender: ⚧ Self-Ejected

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    Physics is useful fluff.

    What is going on ITT by the way~
     
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  17. Delteriusgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Pretty sure Vecna altered the laws of physics at least four times by now.
     
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  18. Immortalgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Hmm so the rotational axis of Faerun is.. Roll for weather patterns.. and gravitational pull of the tides from selunes ass.. and.. OH WAIT.. We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders!!!

    :nocountryforshitposters:


    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

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    [​IMG]

    I take it by terminal velocity you're referring to the rules about falling.

    Which, it's worth pointing out, would allow a rhinoceros to survive a drop of 30 meters, but not a mouse, because damage from falling doesn't take into account mass. Yay for realism.
     
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  20. Xenichgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Xenich
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    Again, the more you talk about this, the more you act like you never GM'd an AD&D game or cracked open an old DM guide. The players hand guides do not go into these details. In fact, they really aren't supposed to know that stuff, it is for the DM to rule on the physics and interactions within the world.

    This is what bothers me about you folks. You mock us for our arguments of physics and realism within the fantasy world and as I said, you people are responsible for sucking all the intellect out of games in order to cater to "but I want it!" emotional players who love sitting around role playing jerking off with each other. You don't get it, because you are for all honest and intent purposes... a poser.
     
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  21. mutonizergender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    mutonizer
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    Not defending "horse spiders" but you're really discussing these from unnamed fantasy settings? I mean what's your brain limit? Dragon? Cockatrice? Demons? At which point too much is too much here?
     
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  22. Make America Great Again Tacgnolgender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    The art makes that horse spider particularly hilarious.
     
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  23. Immortalgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    The point is.. discussing physics and terminal velocity of a world setting is pretty pointless once you concede fucking horse spiders are flying around nayying at you and shooting webs out their ass.
    Do I really have to explain this?
     
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  24. Xenichgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Xenich
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    You only make my point.

    Not a gamer, just some poser who loves to play dress up and LARP sex with their homosexual buddies. Good job!
     
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  25. Prime Juntagender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Why would I need to LARP sex with my homosexual buddies? They're sluts man.
     
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