X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[Galdred]

Overbloated with HP aliens and promoting timer shit, good old Firaxis. Because putting more pressure on player for the sake of putting pressure is SO FUN!

Pressure creates tension and tension and worry adds to the reward. Why would I want to play a game that is so challengless that I feel no pressure to perform well during combat? I'm just wasting my time if there is no constant pressure of losing. If winning is a foregone conclusion there is no pressure and it really isn't winning.

Gambling with big money is exciting because of the pressure. Big risk = pressure. Big reward equals the reason to subject yourself to the pressure.

Thing is, you don't need timers for pressure.
None of the old games had that, and the risk and pressure was still there. IMO, the pressure to need to advance on the strategy layer is more than enough. You can't really play it safe there and need to take riskier missions (that are risky without timers). Hell, BB doesn't have timers and I'd say there's quite a bit of pressure going on anyway.
Having timers every now and then isn't bad as it is a mechanic that spices things up when used sometimes. But in XCom 2, I cannot even remember missions without one. It's just the same, always. And always the same just becomes annoying as hell.

Actually, the lack of lose condition in BB could be a slight problem in earlier versions (when you started further away from the opponent):
If both sides decide to camp a hill, then what? The player would have to attack because he would get bored?
Almost every wargame has a time limit to force the attacker to take action.
The problem with XCOM 2 timer, if any, is that they feel forced, and are too central to the gameplay (even if you had 20 turns more, you would have to take the offensive and not wait forever for a patrol to enter into your overwatch ambush).
The problem with the way timers are implemented in XCOM2 is that removing them also makes the missions trivially easy.

There are timers too in Total War, and nobody complains about them, so I think it is a matter of implementation (not having enough time to position your sniper can get odd indeed), not that timers are bad by themselves.

 

[thesheeep]

qed
Didn't even remember the non-timer ones because the timed ones were so annoying.

 

[MediantSamuel]

Would you recommend any specific larger overhaul mods, oasis789 or do you find a bunch of smaller mods works better?

I'm hoping WotC addresses my complaints but I'm kinda keen on a replay before it releases.

 

[YES!]

Overbloated with HP aliens and promoting timer shit, good old Firaxis. Because putting more pressure on player for the sake of putting pressure is SO FUN!

Pressure creates tension and tension and worry adds to the reward. Why would I want to play a game that is so challengless that I feel no pressure to perform well during combat? I'm just wasting my time if there is no constant pressure of losing. If winning is a foregone conclusion there is no pressure and it really isn't winning.

Gambling with big money is exciting because of the pressure. Big risk = pressure. Big reward equals the reason to subject yourself to the pressure.

Thing is, you don't need timers for pressure.
None of the old games had that, and the risk and pressure was still there. IMO, the pressure to need to advance on the strategy layer is more than enough. You can't really play it safe there and need to take riskier missions (that are risky without timers). Hell, BB doesn't have timers and I'd say there's quite a bit of pressure going on anyway.
Having timers every now and then isn't bad as it is a mechanic that spices things up when used sometimes. But in XCom 2, I cannot even remember missions without one. It's just the same, always. And always the same just becomes annoying as hell.

I disagree. One of the Buck Rogers, early on, had a mission in which your party members would get a brain disease or something. You had to explore the whole ship with a constant pressure of it getting worse, spreading, and who knows what. You had to find a medical station to remove it and it really wasn't that clear what was going on. This part is burned into my mind and solidified my love of the Buck Rogers games. Also, the first QfG had various timers, all hidden for the most part. If I am remembering right so did Dark Suns with certain events, like times into the gladiator pit before shit happens, etc. I have never beat FO1 and FO2 because of the timers on both. I have an OCD need to clear everything and the game makes it impossible with the time limits given. All the RoA games had certain timers if I am remembering right. All these examples are pre-internet (or pre-internet for the vast majority of all people) so there was no guides to check or easy solutions. Most games had a hint line you could call for money, and would be expensive even in today's dollars.

 

[thesheeep]

Thing is, you don't need timers for pressure.
None of the old games had that, and the risk and pressure was still there. IMO, the pressure to need to advance on the strategy layer is more than enough. You can't really play it safe there and need to take riskier missions (that are risky without timers). Hell, BB doesn't have timers and I'd say there's quite a bit of pressure going on anyway.
Having timers every now and then isn't bad as it is a mechanic that spices things up when used sometimes. But in XCom 2, I cannot even remember missions without one. It's just the same, always. And always the same just becomes annoying as hell.

I disagree. One of the Buck Rogers, early on, had a mission in which your party members would get a brain disease or something. You had to explore the whole ship with a constant pressure of it getting worse, spreading, and who knows what. You had to find a medical station to remove it and it really wasn't that clear what was going on. This part is burned into my mind and solidified my love of the Buck Rogers games. Also, the first QfG had various timers, all hidden for the most part. If I am remembering right so did Dark Suns with certain events, like times into the gladiator pit before shit happens, etc. I have never beat FO1 and FO2 because of the timers on both.

That's nice. But we're talking about XCom and comparable games here (that's what I meant with old games, the old X-Com ones). A game where losing a few missions (or even one) can cost you too much to be able to continue, timers or not.
Hence, timers are simply not needed. And if they are only there to make missions hard enough to be challenging, there's something seriously wrong with the mission and game design. As proven by all similar games not requiring timers.

Besides, the FO1 timer was patched out (and for good reason, timers like that simply don't work for games that demand exploration) and... FO2 never had a timer to begin with. Or did it? I certainly cannot remember one.

 

[Luka-boy]

All the RoA games had certain timers if I am remembering right.

The first one had a global time limit of two in-game years. The other games only had a few timed quests, though I can't remember if any of them was part of the main quest.

FO2 never had a timer to begin with. Or did it? I certainly cannot remember one.

Thirteen in-game years due to technical limitations that made the game crash after that date. It is pretty much impossible to ever reach it even if you're a completionist who also dicks around way too much, but I'm pretty sure that time limit can be removed via mods.

 

[Mazisky]

In the expansion there are many options to customize the campaign, one of those is "doubling timers"

 

[mastroego]

So guys, I'm having a dilemma here.
I'm playing Long War I but I also just bought XCom 2, AND I've installed Long War 2 already.

Honestly, I wanted to finish the first before trying the second. But holy shit it's LONG. Yeah I know it's the point but holy shit. I wasn't prepared for this.
I restarted the LW 1 campaign once and then went on from there. I must have at least 150 hours on this campaign alone.
UFO 141 just appeared (my first Overseer) and it's March 2017 in game.
I thought for sure I was reaching the end, since I have practically exhausted all the available research and met every possible kind of alien. I thought I could do one last effort, finish this thing (as amazing as it is, it's been a LONG struggle, did I say that?) and move on to the next, but... I've started to harbor a suspicion... tried a google search and it seems like... total mission count to actually finish LW1 would be around 300 or more?!?!?!?!


Come on this cannot be true, right? Right?
I mean I love the mod, absolutely, one of the most amazing games ever, but still AS MANY MISSIONS TO GO as I went though already? They seemed too many already, maps being recycled countless times as it is, and all. What kind of stamina does it take to actually finish this mod? It's starting to feel like I'm wasting time doing the same things over and over, and that is a bad sign even though the missions manage to still be fun most of the time.
Should I call it quits? I'd hate to leave it unfinished after all the effort I put in the campaign, damn it. This is insane.

Is Long War 2 similarly endless? What do you guys suggest, try that one instead?
Thanks for any insight

 

[Jaedar]

Come on this cannot be true, right? Right?
I mean I love the mod, absolutely, one of the most amazing games ever, but still AS MANY MISSIONS TO GO as I went though already? They seemed too many already, maps being recycled countless times as it is, and all. What kind of stamina does it take to actually finish this mod? It's starting to feel like I'm wasting time doing the same things over and over, and that is a bad sign even though the missions manage to still be fun most of the time.
Should I call it quits? I'd hate to leave it unfinished after all the effort I put in the campaign, damn it. This is insane.

Depends on how you're doing. Remember, to finish the game you have to get a high level psionic soldier, and do enough research to build the shadow chamber + have enough firestorms to shoot down the overseer ufo. You could have that ready by August 2017, or march 2018.

And yeah, long war is waaaay too long. Even with the special option to make it shorter, and that also unbalances the game.

 

[Alienman]

It's in the name

 

[mastroego]

Ok, thanks. But what about LW2? Same lenght?

 

[TC Jr]

Sorry for shitting the thread up a bit but is this game worth it? I enjoyed ew but I can't replay it, it's too repetitive at this point (feel like I'm doing the same shit in the same maps), is xcom2 varied enough? I haven't tried the long war mod so I'll have to give that a go.

 

[Zombra]

So guys, I'm having a dilemma here.
Total mission count to actually finish LW1 would be around 300 or more?!?!?!?!
Come on this cannot be true, right? Right?
Is Long War 2 similarly endless? What do you guys suggest, try that one instead?

It's true. Long War was not designed to be finished. That was stated outright by the team that created it. I don't know whether they cleaned up their act for LW2.

Sorry for shitting the thread up a bit but is this game worth it? I enjoyed ew but I can't replay it, it's too repetitive at this point (feel like I'm doing the same shit in the same maps), is xcom2 varied enough? I haven't tried the long war mod so I'll have to give that a go.

If you enjoyed EW, you should enjoy XCOM 2. Note that Long War made XCOM 1 a very different game. I suggest you try it, see which parts you like and which you don't, and then try to find individual mods to tailor your game. LW has a ton of revolutionary ideas, some of which are better than others, sucks that you have to install "all or nothing".

 

[Jaedar]

Ok, thanks. But what about LW2? Same lenght?

From what I played of it, it seemed quite long too. Not as long perhaps, but there is less mission and enemy variety that I could see.

It's true. Long War was not designed to be finished. That was stated outright by the team that created it. I don't know whether they cleaned up their act for LW2.

This is probably true. And to be fair, if you've played for one in game year, you've probably seen all the enemies, including the really nasty lategame pod leaders(thin men with squadsight for example). It's likely a good time to quit, because the endgame grind for plasma, power armor and firestorms in LW is insane.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

the problem is that most of the time you're just fighting hp bloats instead of real enemies, you see only red dots and that gets repetitive fast, and the only challenge is in not to awaken more than a pod because if you do you lose. a bad problem which is the base lw2 has been built on.

 

[Space Satan]

I almost never advance fast because then I will activate some random pod, which will REPOSITION to th best possible current cover. Which menas that next turn my frontliners will soak up all skills, some of which will instantly disable them, like sneks do. So nuXcom2 wanted to promore more agressive gameplay but succeded only in promoting passive-agressive gameplay, where players try their best to negate degeneracy of this crappy pod activation system.

 

[mastroego]

I never finished LW1, though I must have rolled new campaigns dozens of times. You can try the "not so long war" option, not sure how balanced that is though. I find your perspective hard to understand - the point of LW1 is that you've already finished EW and want More Missions, More Classes, More Everything. If you don't actually enjoy the More then just stop playing. Same with LW2, I just can't play vanilla any more.

Uhm, I must have poorly worded my feelings about the mod.
I think it's amazing and I agree there's no turning back to vanilla.
It's just that at some point one wants to actually end the damn campaign, "reach the end of the story" so to speak - and it's becoming evident that it's going to take an amount of grinding I wasn't expecting... especially when you feel like you've "beaten it" already: everything researched or almost so, rooster full of max-level soldiers and so on.

I did try the Dynamic War option: first time with the mod actually, but it did feel severely unbalanced (several soldiers got to max level when my research was still in its infancy stages). So I restarted with the default speed (and the easy setting, as I wanted to complete it once before trying a more taxing experience, knowing how to properly prepare for the endgame and et cetera).

In other words it sucks if the only reasonable way to end the campaign is by losing early or by just dropping it when you have enough: it should be a practical possibility to actually reach the end in less than a thousand hours, especially for those playing on the easy setting.

 

[Jaedar]

It's just that at some point one wants to actually end the damn campaign, "reach the end of the story" so to speak - and it's becoming evident that it's going to take an amount of grinding I wasn't expecting... especially when you feel like you've "beaten it" already: everything researched or almost so, rooster full of max-level soldiers and so on.

If you're at this point you're not far from finishing, assuming you have some decent resources stockpiled.

 

[ArchAngel]

Although I didn't get far in LW1 (and played the Not So Long War version) I feel LW2 is made to be shorter.

 

[mastroego]

Ok guys thanks. I've decided to try and go on another bit.
But it seems like LW2 might be better for a completionist...

 

[Nirvash]

So guys, I'm having a dilemma here.
I'm playing Long War I but I also just bought XCom 2, AND I've installed Long War 2 already.

Honestly, I wanted to finish the first before trying the second. But holy shit it's LONG. Yeah I know it's the point but holy shit. I wasn't prepared for this.
I restarted the LW 1 campaign once and then went on from there. I must have at least 150 hours on this campaign alone.
UFO 141 just appeared (my first Overseer) and it's March 2017 in game.
I thought for sure I was reaching the end, since I have practically exhausted all the available research and met every possible kind of alien. I thought I could do one last effort, finish this thing (as amazing as it is, it's been a LONG struggle, did I say that?) and move on to the next, but... I've started to harbor a suspicion... tried a google search and it seems like... total mission count to actually finish LW1 would be around 300 or more?!?!?!?!


Come on this cannot be true, right? Right?
I mean I love the mod, absolutely, one of the most amazing games ever, but still AS MANY MISSIONS TO GO as I went though already? They seemed too many already, maps being recycled countless times as it is, and all. What kind of stamina does it take to actually finish this mod? It's starting to feel like I'm wasting time doing the same things over and over, and that is a bad sign even though the missions manage to still be fun most of the time.
Should I call it quits? I'd hate to leave it unfinished after all the effort I put in the campaign, damn it. This is insane.

Is Long War 2 similarly endless? What do you guys suggest, try that one instead?
Thanks for any insight

I unlocked the final mission at ufo 237...

Not really in a hurry but savescummed hard for the esper upgrade to not fail.

Now i'm stuck at the final boss, the bastard tanked 23 damage from my best sniper after debuff rocket. (wait, do that work only on robots? Tell me yes)

Gonna try savescumming/baiting out of that room and go for the poison, i hope my ultramarine (mech gunner) can do real damage.

 

[Mazisky]

the most informative video since announce





Very interesting to know that we can play the campaign with a combo option enabled:

Double timers cd and beta strike (more hp for both xcom and aliens for longer firefights)

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Thane Solus]

fucking degenerates. WTf is this POS, Marvel invasion? Meh, i miss x-com

XCOM 2 sucks balls btw, beside some improvements in the tactical combat, its soulless...

 

[Mazisky]

Totally not Marvel invasion