X-COM (1994) vs XCom (2012) - KKK?

[Jools]

In one of my very few forays into this wondrous land of awe and sheer terror that is the strategy subforum, I wondered where the KKK stands on one of the few strategy games I actually ever played and enjoyed, and on its newfag remake.

Which is better and why? Discuss! Or is it too much of a rethorical question?

Truth be told, I can't remember how playing the original "felt" like, and playing the new one these days turned out to be entertaining enough. I think some of you guys still play the old one (or its opensource port), so maybe you guys know better. I have a fancy of picking it up again (triggered, obviously, by my current engaging with the new one), and well I just wondered...

A couple of posts from the interwebz that I checked out, to little avail:

http://jasonlefkowitz.net/2012/10/x-com-vs-xcom/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/11j97h/rosetinted_glasses_off_a_comparison_of_old_vs_new/

 

[Volrath]

Are you serious?

 

[Darth Roxor]

ban jools

 

[eklektyk]

burn those who insult true x-com!!!!

 

[Zeriel]

In one of my very few forays into this wondrous land of awe and sheer terror that is the strategy subforum, I wondered where the KKK stands on one of the few strategy games I actually ever played and enjoyed, and on its newfag remake.

Which is better and why? Discuss! Or is it too much of a rethorical question?

Truth be told, I can't remember how playing the original "felt" like, and playing the new one these days turned out to be entertaining enough. I think some of you guys still play the old one (or its opensource port), so maybe you guys know better. I have a fancy of picking it up again (triggered, obviously, by my current engaging with the new one), and well I just wondered...

A couple of posts from the interwebz that I checked out, to little avail:

http://jasonlefkowitz.net/2012/10/x-com-vs-xcom/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/11j97h/rosetinted_glasses_off_a_comparison_of_old_vs_new/

I still play both (1994 and 2012) and am one of the few who ended up liking the 2012 one with some caveats. Most of Codexia seems to loathe it, though.

 

[Dayyālu]

Which is better and why? Discuss! Or is it too much of a rethorical question?

It is, of course, a rethorical question. NeuXcom, at least in his baseline form, is shit. Utter crap. As I said once, it's a game built on what you can't do, on what you can't choose, on what you can't see, on what you can't plan. Most of the mechanics are kinda weird, and the "pod" structure of the encounters is a sin against humanity.

OldXcom is one of the best games ever made, and it still holds up well. The thing is, that, despite a lot of optimal approaches, I can play the old Xcom as I like: ignoring psi, throwing grenades against everything, going for rushes of newbies and stun batons, or the proven spotter/sniper strategy. I can employ the fighters as mobile radars, trying to catch the UFOs in the countries I don't cover with my bases. I can choose the tempo of my expansion, or build skeleton bases just with radars.

Most of these options are not "optimal", but I can do such things. My feeling of playing NeuXcom was to be chained to a model of game where the only optimal thing to do is to build a squad, reload every time one of 'em gets killed due to the fact that it's all abilities spam and little else. Hell, even grenades are an ability! And you get punished for using 'em, even.

I've tried to enjoy baseline NeuXcom, and truth be told, it's inferior to pretty much everything I've tried in the genre: the Altair UFOs, Xenonauts, UFO Alien Invasion and in recent times Templar Battleforce (that's more similar to not!Space Hulk, but it's a great little gem with tons of typos).

I have friends that swear that the modded expansion is gold, but I did not have the strength left to try it.

 

[Nevill]

The thing is, that, despite a lot of optimal approaches, I can play the old Xcom as I like:
[...]
going for rushes of newbies and stun batons

Wait, that's not optimal!?

Seriously, though, New X-Com is just not very fun. Too limited in everything. The combat system is solid, but variability of the gameplay is lacking.

 

[Jools]

In one of my very few forays into this wondrous land of awe and sheer terror that is the strategy subforum, I wondered where the KKK stands on one of the few strategy games I actually ever played and enjoyed, and on its newfag remake.

Which is better and why? Discuss! Or is it too much of a rethorical question?

Truth be told, I can't remember how playing the original "felt" like, and playing the new one these days turned out to be entertaining enough. I think some of you guys still play the old one (or its opensource port), so maybe you guys know better. I have a fancy of picking it up again (triggered, obviously, by my current engaging with the new one), and well I just wondered...

A couple of posts from the interwebz that I checked out, to little avail:

http://jasonlefkowitz.net/2012/10/x-com-vs-xcom/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/11j97h/rosetinted_glasses_off_a_comparison_of_old_vs_new/

I still play both (1994 and 2012) and am one of the few who ended up liking the 2012 one with some caveats. Most of Codexia seems to loathe it, though.

Yeah, some of the previous comments to the thread were pretty much indicative of that, as obvious and expected as they were.

 

[Jools]

All in all, I think I gathered anough elements to declare that I guess I'll definitively re-play OldXCom, then.

BTW, haters gonna hate, but combat in NewXCom feels a lot like a streamlined/simplified verions of Shadowrun Returns.

 

[baturinsky]

Long War > X-Com > XCom

 

[Nevill]

BTW, haters gonna hate, but combat in NewXCom feels a lot like a streamlined/simplified verions of Shadowrun Returns.

It's the other way around. Harebrained have ripped the combat model almost unchanged from the Nu-XCOM (and it didn't make the game better, not until they rehauled the whole system in DF: DC). There is nothing inherently wrong with it, though.

Also, you can try Open X-Com instead of replaying the old one. The game is more stable and definitely more moddable (and some mods are very sweet). Be sure to grab the latest nightly, though.

 

[Jools]

BTW, haters gonna hate, but combat in NewXCom feels a lot like a streamlined/simplified verions of Shadowrun Returns.

It's the other way around. Harebrained have ripped the combat model almost unchanged from the Nu-XCOM (and it didn't make the game better, not until they rehauled the whole system in DF: DC). There is nothing inherently wrong with it, though.

Hmmm good point. I played SR first and NXC later, which made my mind stick with that order when associating the games with their release dates. Obviously I didn't bother check, nor remember. Furthermore:

1.I didn't say there's anything wrong. In fact, I've enjoyed combat in both games, although SR's felt more refined and complex (probably because it came later). I think this is my favourite style of TB combat.
2.I simplymentioned SR because that's a game that has gotten an great amount of love and fapping-to from the Codex, whereas NXC only seems to get/have gotten griefing, despite the fact that the two games featuring very similar combat mechanics.

Also, you can try Open X-Com instead of replaying the old one. The game is more stable and definitely more moddable (and some mods are very sweet). Be sure to grab the latest nightly, though.

I will, thanks for the protip.

 

[Zeriel]

XCOM 2012's combat is much, much better than Shadowrun. I'm struggling to understand how anyone could entertain the opposite notion. It's bizarre to me--like Decado's metaphor about someone filling a car's tank with water instead of gasoline, and then the car accelerates.

 

[Nevill]

I didn't say there's anything wrong. In fact, I've enjoyed combat in both games, although SR's felt more refined and complex (probably because it came later). I think this is my favourite style of TB combat.

I must have mistaken your 'haters gonna hate', then. I don't think many here hate that style of combat per se.

Its implementations, though... SRR and DF were atrocious in this regard. DF: DC and HK were much better. Still, I think X-COM has more complexity.

I simplymentioned SR because that's a game that has gotten an great amount of love and fapping-to from the Codex, whereas NXC only seems to get/have gotten griefing, despite the fact that the two games featuring very similar combat mechanics.

One is an RPG, and one is tactical strategy. There is a different set of criteria when people talk about them. Probably different people, too.

 

[pippin]

New XCOM can only be truly enjoyed with its expansion. The game plays way better and you have more options.
Don't know about Long War though, it's like made of autism. Play Xenonauts instead.
X-COM is of course perfect and you have openxcom now.

 

[Zeriel]

New XCOM can only be truly enjoyed with its expansion. The game plays way better and you have more options.
Don't know about Long War though, it's like made of autism. Play Xenonauts instead.
X-COM is of course perfect and you have openxcom now.

Xenonauts has its fair share of autism, it tries its hardest to sap the fun out of 1994 X-COM.

 

[Average Manatee]

Long War is basically required for nuXcom to be playable, but it messes up other things and it really should be named Way Too Long War. Vanilla early game is 90% about luck where you get hit by a single 10% shot while hunkering behind cover, lose a soldier and the rest panic and die, then mid/late game sees the difficulty curve hit terminal velocity on its way to become as easy as Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

Make sure you play TFTD/Apocalypse/UFO series. They tend to be dismissed for not living up to the original but in reality they lived up better than nuXcom did and simply never had the marketing budget to convince the general public of this fact.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

All in all, I think I gathered anough elements to declare that I guess I'll definitively re-play OldXCom, then.

open x-com.
http://openxcom.org/
+ final mod + something else you think you might enjoy (like the retaliator, alien armoury and luke's extra ufos)

burn xcom. burn the heretic!

 

[kyrub]

Openxcom + hobbes' Terrain pack + extra UFOs = no contest

XCOM is a solid and innovative game, I think it's obvious. It's sadly formulaic and limitted, but could still become a classic in some next iteration.

 

[Mustawd]

Openxcom + hobbes' Terrain pack + extra UFOs = no contest

*Googles hobbe's Terrain pack*

Sweet baby jesus...

Spoiler

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Can I get that with the Final Mod Pack somehow? I mean, nigga, that's sweet...

 

[kyrub]

Can I get that with the Final Mod Pack somehow? I mean, nigga, that's sweet...

Seems it was added already! ;-)

Final mod Changelog

Added Healing Spray, Stims and Painkillers (all sprites stolen from jackstraw2323's War of Shadows mod, though the first one was heavily altered, and floorobs were added). Updated Hobbes' terrains to the latest versions and added Slums.

 

[Beowulf]

How can anyone call NuXcom a remake?

You get 4 soldiers, 6 when you buy drpship upgrade, ffs.
And those Aliens that appear from thin air, yeah...

I've played it along with the expansion and finished it, but really struggled with my will to continue towards the end, I can't imagine what a chore the Long War must be.

But it's not that bad game per se, if you want some tactics-lite.
On the plus side, the graphics provide a detailed view of visceral and dynamic nature of combat on the battlefields of tomorrow, but thankfuly you can mod the camera to have useful levels of zoom.

 

[Ebonsword]

I really enjoyed Nu-Xcom, personally.

Yes, it doesn't have the depth or replayability of the original, but I found its much faster pace quite enjoyable.

 

[ZoddGuts]

Speaking of Long War. The mod team that made that is formed a new studio 'LongWarStduios' is making a game called Terra Invicta:

Terra Invicta is a grand strategy game in which the player leads the defense of Earth during an alien invasion.

An alien force has arrived in the far reaches of Solar System and begun probing Earth's defenses and building an invasion fleet. The player must assemble a council of scientists, politicians, military leaders and operatives who can unite Earth's squabbling nations with the ultimate goal of taking the fight to the aliens in the high ground of outer space.

Status: In pre-Kickstarter development

http://www.longwarstudios.com/news.htm