Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Worst Star Wars movie

Discussion in 'Codex Public Library' started by Rev, Jan 10, 2018.

?

What's the worst SW movie?

  1. Episode I: The Phantom Menace

    14.8%
  2. Episode II: Attack of the Clones

    16.2%
  3. Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

    3.5%
  4. Episode IV: A New Hope

    1.4%
  5. Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

    0.7%
  6. Episode VI: Return of the Jedi

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Episode VII: The Force Awakens

    16.2%
  8. Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

    21.1%
  9. Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

    4.2%
  10. The worst is yet to come: Solo movie, Ep IX, other spin-offs... (kingcomrade)

    21.8%
  1. TorontRaynegender: ⚧ Arbiter

    TorontRayne
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    New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are so good because they fit the classic storytelling style, use practical effects, defined the legendary sound and music so many love, and the character archetypes are easily identified with. The Phantom Menace attempted to do this with the new generation to mixed success because the main plot (trade disputes/politics/romance/fall of Ani) is shit. Just look at the scene where Ani kills the Sand People for what we should have got in the prequels.

    I won't lean on the already well quoted popular Youtube analysis too much, but look at the characters in Phantom Menace and tell me who to care about besides the two Jedi. Padme? Anakin? Aside from Qui-Gon and a few random Jedi's, that are never fully characterized aside from multi media tie ins, there is little to care about. At least little to care about that you already did not care about. People wanted to see more Palpatine of course and he is undoubtedly the high point of the series, but he is also most boring when slogging on and on about nonsense in the Prequels.

    Plus what little we do find out revelation wise is crap - Midichlorians, Virgin Birth, Count Dooku, General Grievous, Yoda flipping around like a retard, and "I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND" ; The theaters actually erupted in laughter during Revenge of the Sith when it first premiered in parts that were clearly meant to be serious. I was there. The entire prequel series is like that, but the original is not (Return of the Jedi started that direction though). In the original series when Chewie cried out after Han was frozen in carbonite it was sad. When Darth Vader cries out when Padme dies it is hilarious.
     
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  2. HeatEXTENDgender: ⚧ Learned

    HeatEXTEND
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    Far superior lightsaber sounds. Are you deaf?
     
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  3. HeatEXTENDgender: ⚧ Learned

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  4. Sizzlegender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Crap though the prequels may be, at least I can watch them (if, for example, I wanted to show them to a GF who had never seen SW before), but I can't imagine myself ever rewatching a Disney SW movie - they are that soulless, boring and derivative. In short: a cynical product through and through.
     
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  5. buru5gender: ⚧ Very Grumpy Dragon Patron

    buru5
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    Started with IV just like the rest of you brainlets -- I'm just able to form my own opinion.

    Why though?
     
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  6. HeatEXTENDgender: ⚧ Learned

    HeatEXTEND
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    oh the irony
     
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  7. TorontRaynegender: ⚧ Arbiter

    TorontRayne
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    K. Won't bother responding.
     
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  8. Dawkinsfan69gender: ⚧ Savant

    Dawkinsfan69
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    Fair enough, I guess people who were really into IV-VI wanted more of a focus on the story but instead of that the prequels focused more on spectacle.. Which is good for me because idgaf about the story all I wanna see is lightsaber fights and space battles lol
     
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  9. Daemongargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Daemongar
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    Watch the scene again. I think that Palpatine is in control the whole time. He doesn't need the stupid lightsaber and is never in real jeopardy. I may be wrong, but I didn't see him losing his face as much as droping his disguise - he doesn't need it anymore. He didn't need Anakin's help to beat SLJ, he needed Anakin to rush to his side and join him. Then, when Anakin cuts off that black guys arm, the Emperor succinctly throws him out the window and then goes about recruiting Anakin.

    I am not much of a fanboy, but I assumed the Emperor could have trashed the jedi at any time. He just set up a show for Anakins benefit to push him off the fence.

    Watch the scene again - there doesn't need to be any fight choreography. The scene starts with the Emperor reaching out to Anakin, and the Emperor falls right when Anakin runs into the room.

     
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  10. buru5gender: ⚧ Very Grumpy Dragon Patron

    buru5
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    You never gave a coherent explanation on why it's objectively shit. The paragraphs below that are just regurgitated criticism with no real reasoning for why. Are you refusing to give a real reason? Are you even capable?

    Naming things that happen in the prequels isn't an argument.
     
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  11. Revgender: ⚧ Savant

    Rev
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    I agree with this: Palpatine could defeat Windu in a heartbeat if he wanted to, but he "looses" because he wants to turn Anakin on his side, so that when he arrives on the scene he has to stop Windu and take the Emperor's side.
    But that's not why I criticized the duel, it's because it's terrible to watch. Just watch how the first three Jedi die, like complete morons instead of the skillful Masters they're supposed to be, then even the rest of the shots are just bad. And as I said before, I think giving Yoda and the Emperor a lightsaber is a mistake, they don't need one because their power come from the Force, not from being fiercesome warriors (the point of Yoda is that you wouldn't think such a little thing would be a powerful Jedi, and it's the same since he's old and phisically weak).
    Giving them a saber is already a shitty idea, but it gets even worse if then you have to make them do stupid jumps and moves in CGI just because everyone has to have a lightsaber.
     
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  12. Daemongargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Daemongar
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    Yeah, what the hell was Palpatine doing backflips for? He does 3 or so in the video. You are correct on that - it was fanservice. I think they needed to convey his ownership of the situation without making it immediately obvious. Him standing there like a dope and thrusting his lightsaber into the first jedi took about 5 seconds, which looked moronic. Other than that, I liked where the situation went. He controlled the situation, he wanted Anakin to strike down a "good" jedi, then he reveled in their downfall. Then it was followed up by shitty acting. Sigh. That's how it went, but I thought the strongest conviction/presence in the movie was Palpatine. He really showed how one would be seduced by the darkside.
     
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  13. Thane Solusgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Thane Solus
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    I hated the prequels, but now comparing them to the Disney saga, ignoring the dialogues, they are masterpieces :))))

    Disney made Star Wars the new Transformers, powered by SJW, feminism and lots of stupidity...
     
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  14. Korgoth of Barbariagender: ⚧ Erudite

    Korgoth of Barbaria
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    I guess it's because they're what I first saw in theaters, but I'll always have a soft spot for the prequels. My favorite prequel is actually the one everyone hates most - AOTC - because it just is a fun, dumb ride much like the original Star Wars. I mean, for its time, Star Wars was considered to be regressive - a simple, stupid fairy tale which harkened back to old Hollywood and shitty B movies. Compared, at the time, to the more cerebral science-fiction films of the era, Star Wars represented a massive dumbing down of the genre for the masses. It was entertainment for kids. And I guess that's why, as flawed as they are in some ways, why I've never been able to hate the prequels, because I first saw them as a kid - and that's who the market for Star Wars has always been - Even in the 1970s.

    The prequels aren't masterpieces by any means - no Star Wars film except Empire can objectively be called a cinematic masterpiece - but they're not the horrid abominations that Gen X made them out to be, either. I'm not saying every character is interesting or every scene is great - The political stuff bores the fuck out of me, too, and I skip it - but I find them enjoyable. Simple as that. I think they're a lot more intelligent than most of the movies coming out today (I mean of your summer blockbuster fare).

    The prequels could've been done better. I would've written them much differently, if I was George Lucas. But I'm not, and I genuinely respect him and his vision for not just doing the obvious. For at least trying to be different, and for the worldbuilding they offer and for the fact that, at heart, they're Star Wars films. Flawed, but still Star Wars. And for all their flaws, each of the prequel movies is at least coherent - I can't say that for The Last Jedi.

    The Disney sequels to me are not and will never be canon. The Force Awakens was a poorly written remake of Star Wars and its barely watchable only because of the ingredients it has in common with the original movie. The Last Jedi is probably in all honesty the worst film I've ever seen. I say that not out of butthurt but I honestly just felt it was poorly written and felt more like a Twilight film than Star Wars. It honestly felt like an incoherent Hunger Games or Twilight movie with Star Wars trappings. The only Disney film with promise was Rogue One and that film sadly was fucked in the editing process and is horribly disjointed, which is a shame because there's a lot of great elements. But as far as I'm concerned, the Disney films are professional fan-fiction. Not canon. Never happened. I'll stick with the EU.
     
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  15. I'm With Her Snorkackgender: ⚧ for prison Arcane

    Snorkack
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    I vote for The Force Awakens.
    As disappointing as they were - George Lucas at least a vision when he made episode I-III. Sure, it was a retarded vision, but at least it was an original one.
    Episode VII is just an accumulation of checked marketing tickboxes that tries to hide its complete lack of soul by annoying the audience with endless self-references up until the point where you have to ask yourself "Am I watching A New Hope?!".
    The Last Jedi will be the first SW episode I won't bother watching, and judging by the critical receptions everywhere, that seems to be the right decision.
     
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  16. Make America Great Again 80s Stallonegender: ⚧ Arcane

    80s Stallone
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    Since I focus myself mostly on plot and story, I have to say it's "Attack of the Clones". It's just a bunch of scenes slapped together, without much cohesion and/or logic between them. That carries over to "Revenge of the Sith" but at least it has some sense behind it. "The Phantom Menace" is, at least, a classically arranged screenplay, albeit the move is full of dumb shit and boring scenes. To excuse Lucas, he knows his own limitations and didn't even want to write the screenplay of Episode 1 by himself, he even asked Carrie Fisher, but none of his friends wanted to do it.

    To me, Sidious faking his defeat works better, but Lucas said otherwise IIRC. On the other hand, I don't think either scenario really works with what is shown on screen. The scene is just badly shot. Same question is the face scarring. Is it Palpatine's true face? Deformed by the lightning? Did he let his mask fall on purpose, was he trying to further provoke Windu by appearing even more disgusting? And then again, even if he had lost on purpose, does this truly convince Anakin? He seems weak and pathetic. Is this truly the mighty wizard that could save Padme? And then he even admits that he cannot save her from death, but Anakin doesn't bother...

    IIRC, the scene was re-shot. At first, Anakin is supposed to be standing next to the Emperor. Palpatine takes Anakin's lightsaber to attack the Jedi, not his own. My own pet theory (also the reason why the Windu Palpatine fight is so weird): Samuel L. Jackson wanted to have his character as that bad ass guy and didn't want to share the spotlight with the other Jedi. And then Lucas also shot it in a way SLJ could think he had beat the Emperor.

    Even when I was a kid I had thought that the Emperor (well, I didn't even know about the Sith until the Jedi Knight expansion LOL) was disgusted by lightsabres. Because of his comment. Vader carried one because he was a Jedi. And then, yeah, Yoda shouldn't be a warrior. That's also why I quite liked the concept of Qui-Gon Jin. Qui-Gon the warrior, Yoda the priest, and Obi-Wan as someone in between.[/QUOTE]
     
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  17. Falksigender: ⚧ Erudite

    Falksi
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    Spin it how you want, but it was predictable as fuck.

    The second I saw BB8 get the Death....sorry, map to Luke you knew exactly what was coming and from that moment on it all felt kinda pointless.

    But just tp pick apart that arguement anyway:

    Kylo Ren - Dark side inner conflict - done before.
    Rey - Parental issues, powerful with the force, founf on a desert planet - done before
    Finn - Most potentially interesting plot (ex Trooper), but one which never got going
    Maz - Yoda, got no story
    Poe - Solo, got no story
    Snoke - Emporer, got no story
    Hux - Tarquin, got no story
    BB-8 - R2D2, got no story

    New stuff:
    Rey's storyline - same as Lukes
    Snoke's story (or lack thereof) - exactly, what story?
    Kylo's story - done before
    Luke, Han and Leia's backstory in the past 30 years - where was it?
    Finn's backstory - most original and potentially interesting bit of the film...they do fuck all with it and handle it shitely too ("OMG, stormtroopers are....killers!!")
    Poe's story - What story?

    TFA only works on a very simple, retarded level. Seeing folk defend it's story is like hearing folk say "Roger Red hat & The Village with 3 Corners have stories" - they may do, but they're for 4 year olds they're so simple and chilche, and TFA is the same.

    It's because of trash like TFA that Disney have ruined the saga, and why we get subsequent shit like TLJ. Wake up to it's wankness.
     
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  18. HeatEXTENDgender: ⚧ Learned

    HeatEXTEND
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    What were you expecting?
     
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  19. Make America Great Again deuxherogender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Rahn dying (and not like a punk either. Despite being heavily outnumbered he survives for an impressive length of time and inflicts what would normally have been a fatal wound on one of his foes) then defying his killers even in death as a ghost by training Kyle was a better Jedi origin than anyone in Disney's new shit got.
     
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  20. Falksigender: ⚧ Erudite

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    A stupid question after posting.
     
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  21. HeatEXTENDgender: ⚧ Learned

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  22. Sizzlegender: ⚧ Arcane

    Sizzle
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    I'm aware, but what I meant by this is - even though Lucas basically invented cash-grab merchandising, his characters (well, apart from Ewoks) at least didn't exist solely to sell toys.

    Which is more than you can say for Disney Star Wars - they are not just bereft of any personality, but often don't even advance the story in any meaningful way (see - Finn in TLJ).

    They came into being through market analysis, based on predictions of what (mostly) young people today would like and identify with.

    Look at Rey - she's lived all her life in one place without any parental guidance or influence, doing the same things (scavenging) over and over again, yet she's: able to masterfully pilot spaceships on her first try, speak several languages, instantly and effortlessly pick up skills she'd had no way of knowing even existed beforehand, is beloved and sought after by everyone, and everyone is constantly telling us - the audience - how special and important she is. She's basically every millennials' ultimate power fantasy come true.

    Or, hell, Kylo Ren - a character who fell to the Dark Side because mommy and daddy didn't pay enough attention to him. Which, as far as villain's motivations go, would be weak in any movie, let alone Star Wars, but is something that, apparently (I've talked to many young people who see the logic in him becoming evil because of this), for some reason, resonates with a lot of younger people today.
     
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  23. Make America Great Again deuxherogender: ⚧ Arcane

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    There's logic in it, fear leads to the dark side and all and parental problems can cause plenty of fear (not always rational, but the dark side never needs fear to be rational). It's just that it completely and utterly fails at being compelling or likeable as a character. Compare various dark side falls, it seems very weak. Compare it to Vader in the prequels, who falls to the dark side over fear of losing his wife then stays there out of hatred of the Emperor for tricking him into killing his wife and getting him crippled (That was official. Most direct is Force Unleashed's "You never planned to destroy the Emperor..." "Not with you" exchange, which prequel Lucas directly oversaw if not wrote himself) and hating himself for being an idiot. Hell, compare a random EU Dark Jedi like Boc: He desperately wanted to be a Jedi, but was passed over due to circumstances beyond his control (the guy looking for force sensitives died when he was born and wasn't replaced till he was too old) and his resentment at the Jedi passing him over turns to hatred against the Jedi as he grows older, which Jerec exploits to give him his wish in the cruelest way possible.

    Age is also a big part of it: Kylo is a grown ass man (I don't give enough of a damn to check how old he is when it happened) who dresses like an old man. It might actually kinda work if he was a teenager (insecurity and rebellion against parents to the max), and emphasized more as a Sith apprentice instead of full on dark lord who happens to be second, with the Sith master as a surogate parental figure.

    Damn, I'm not even trying and I'm coming up with more compelling stories than Disney made with millions of dollars.
     
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  24. Sizzlegender: ⚧ Arcane

    Sizzle
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    "Daddy wasn't there for me, and mommy was always busy." isn't the same as parental abuse - which would be an actual issue - it only becomes so through the eyes of overprivileged twerps who this movie is aimed at.

    And that's just it - an actual legitimate motivation could have been easily thought of, but instead they deliberately went for the lowest possible psycho-babble angle, just because brats will see their own troubles reflected in such idiocy.
     
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  25. krisgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Luke: i am not afraid
    Yoda: You will be, you will be
     
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