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World building is king

What is king?

  • mechanics

    Votes: 23 21.7%
  • world building

    Votes: 24 22.6%
  • OP is king of faggots

    Votes: 59 55.7%

  • Total voters
    106

Sykar

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Many of my favorite games were those with decent to good world building while mechanically often just average or even below average. Case in point:

Gothic series (Magic pretty bad early on and mostly just point+click. Melee decent)
Deus Ex (Average as a shooter and pretty bad melee)
Original Thief series (actually good mechanics overall)
Morrowind (One of the worst mechanically especially melee combat)
Planescape Torment (mechanically the weakest of the IE games)
 
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Sacred82

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Immersion is purely personal and subjective.

So is enjoyable combat.

Immersion is a result of good world building, for which there are objective criteria.


Some recipients suffer from disabilities, such as the ability to be immersed in games with bad world building or the inability to be immersed despite good world building. These are outliers.
 
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laclongquan

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Immersed how much? I hope you're not considering everyone who gets 'immersed' in TES larping as mentally retarded. They might be, but not because of immersion.

I mean have you ever played tabletop games? While it's not the same it functions in a similiar fashion. In TES's case, you create a character with some background story and roleplay him to the best of your ability all the while ignoring in-game systems, because they're horribad. As for the setting, that's just a part of it.

Why the fuck do you guys always take out tabletop game experience in such discussion? This here is electronic games, not social games where you shoot the shit around a table, face to face. There's only you and the machine. There might be other voices coming from machines, purportedly from other players, but you dont know how they look in real time so a fuck you doesnt have the same strength as when you use on their face.

Immersion can be used in such social setting, or a film, but for an electronic medium, it's of lower importance. Much lower.
 
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Sacred82

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Why the fuck do you guys always take out tabletop game experience in such discussion? This here is electronic games, not social games where you shoot the shit around a table, face to face. There's only you and the machine. There might be other voices coming from machines, purportedly from other players, but you dont know how they look in real time so a fuck you doesnt have the same strength as when you use on their face.

Immersion can be used in such social setting, or a film, but for an electronic medium, it's of lower importance. Much lower.

The simulation is much stronger in the electronic medium - which may be enough to get you immersed. The absence of other people also should make it easier.
 

DraQ

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Worldbuilding is important because it provides context for the gameplay or the story to be meaningful, let alone good in.

You can sometimes hit the right notes by aiming directly at the atmosphere or whatever, but it's very hit or miss, worldbuilding is the vehicle to get there reliably.

It also *is* the kind of story that doesn't explode, violently, when you unleash a player at it, so it's unique in not growing at the expense of gameplay.
But more than that, worldbuilding is the kind of story that can *aid* the gameplay, instead of just not harming it.

Typically, when player looks at a game, they learn to parse it into tokens.
Tokens are whatever makes sense in terms of mechanics.
However, effective worldbuilding allows games to resist tokenization by blurring the line between what information is relevant and what is just meaningless window dressing, allowing you to actually take the game in instead of playing with tokens. Why? Because it can be used to generate meaningful, structured information beyond systematized, mechanical context - it isn't limited by whatever resolution your mechanics runs at and it isn't limited by your abstract systems. It can be used to convey important information using subtle and unexpected cues, that the player can and will miss if they focus on parsing fucking tokens. This means that if you actually use it instead of just having it as pretty backdrop, player will no longer be able to afford not to take every word and every sound and every pixel in because they will no longer have a reliable and easy criterion of what is and isn't important - the thing is, you need a model according to which this information makes sense, you need this model to be bigger than your mechanics and bigger than you can convey explicitly (else it'll just be tokens all over again), yet you need it replicated in player's head faithfully enough to be usable - without such model any extra information will effectively be white noise. This of course overlaps with simulationism (which is also based on applying this logic to mechanics itself by relying on player's preexisting mental model to approximate mechanics so that it doesn't need to be explicitly conveyable and memorizable even if it needs to be implemented) but if you take simulationism far enough, you end in a worldbuilding land - both exploit the fact that the devs and their audience have something in common - they are humans inhabiting same physical world and preequipped with complex mental models and heuristics of how stuff works - to avoid implementing a lot of very complex relationships in terms of mechanics - for example a game doesn't need to understand how details of NPC's face model or geographical location relate to some strings of text but you can still use it to let an observant player avoid a nasty trap or reap a splendid reward.
Worldbuilding allows gameplay to effectively become informal in a way not unlike it does in a PnP. It's a powerful magic trick with no tradeoffs, not using it is plain fucking stupid.

(And it's not like we 've never discussed sperged furiously about this kind of stuff here before.)

And that's, by the way, is one of the reasons original BG wasn't particularly notable in terms of worldbuilding. Morrowind, and even Skyrim to some extent managed to make for example blahblah lore books more than just window dressing by allowing player to extract information you could put to practical use, like getting a roomful of daedric gear.

We all love to harp on how we love our games cerebral and out of reach of a common plebe, but without worldbuilding and simulationism they won't.
If you can allow yourself to think in tokens then it matters little whether you get your quest compass displayed on HUD or need to follow some easily formalized algorithm to visualize one. The games will only get smart if you can no longer be sure if the quest compass is actually pointing somewhere, let alone where.

Worldbuilding and simulationism get you "Eureka!" moments too, and, BTW, I *have* seen an otherwise clever attempt at this fail depressingly by not being accompanied by (in this particular case) simulationism.

Mass effect 1 did a fine job at world building men. Mass effect 2 and 3 did a fine job ruining it forever.
Then suddenly Ass-ari. It's like all that worldbuilding decided to commit suicide. :stupid:

The appropriate place for World building is in the first chapter of a richly documented manual that comes with the RPG.
It's not *the* place for worldbuilding, but it's certainly *a* good one. I sure loved my phat manuals.
If world building is king then Oblivion (...) is to be fapped by most...
Why would you fap to a game that's most notable for shitting all over series' worldbuilding, breaking it nearly beyond repair?
Immershun is pure marketing bullshit spew by game reviewers and PR guys who dont know shit about games but aspire much to film reviewers. If you are immersed so much in such settings use by game, you got SERIOUS problem with your mental health and games' importance should be bottom of your priority scale.

We are talking about games with length of tens of hours, not a film with 3 hours, top.
Suspension of disbelief is crucial for any fiction.

Anyway, if you're not caring about it and still play SP games, then you're effectively obsessing over a bunch of abstract tokens doing meaningless token stuff.
It's unhealthy. Go outside, meet someone, maybe fuck someone, do something useful or at least go fap to something. Seriously, stop.
 

Johannes

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No, you are misunderstanding. You can get better and master all RPGs, this is not a bad thing, you can find yourself using the best tactics and dealing with opponents in the most efficient way possible, this is what is called a mastery of the system.

With PoE it has little to do with mastery of the system and more to do with you simply bruteforcing victories by taking the same approach against every enemy.
While games like baldurs gate 2 offered several options to deal with any given threat. In PoE theres just "the tactic you chose", how you built your party is how youll tackle every fight from start to finish with 3-4 exceptions among over 100 encounters.
BG2 doesn't just offer different options to deal with a threat, but it actually forces you to switch between them - because hard counters. Different enemies need to be attacked differently, and you need to protect yourself differently, based on who you're fighting.
 

Lhynn

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Mass effect 1 did a fine job at world building men. Mass effect 2 and 3 did a fine job ruining it forever.
Then suddenly Ass-ari. It's like all that worldbuilding decided to commit suicide.
You are such a fucking shitposter somedays i dont even why i bother to acknowledge your crap.
6-3AliensOrion.jpg

This was what inspired Asari you ignorant lizard, world building in mass effect borrowed heavily from sci fi series from the 90s, but also took a lot from the old serials of the original star trek and this was perfectly in line with that.

BG2 doesn't just offer different options to deal with a threat, but it actually forces you to switch between them - because hard counters. Different enemies need to be attacked differently, and you need to protect yourself differently, based on who you're fighting.
Yeah, i think i elaborated on that somewhere.
 

Hyperion

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Not sure if it would fall under the category of world building, but in terms of creating a fun, interactive, immersive world one of the biggest pluses you can have are environments that are distinct and unique enough that you don't even need a world map, or quest trackers to navigate. Solely relying on what an NPC tells you and visual cues from your surroundings should suffice.

We've gotten to the point where the journey no longer matters in a game, only the result. The end justifies the means, apparently.
 

ThoseDeafMutes

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You are such a fucking shitposter somedays i dont even why i bother to acknowledge your crap.

...

This was what inspired Asari you ignorant lizard, world building in mass effect borrowed heavily from sci fi series from the 90s, but also took a lot from the old serials of the original star trek and this was perfectly in line with that.

That's only half the story. The Asari were not merely a reference to the Blue Skinned Space Babe(tm), they were also designed with being a player-character romance in mind. In ME2 the Drell were also this way, but they wound up making a much less jarring species there having learned that actually, players don't require their romance interests to be 99.99% phenotypically human (insert disgusting Bioware forum posts about Asari sweat here).

Being a reference doesn't mean they were well designed, though. They are almost identical to humans - and no, you can't say this is just asari mind powers making people see what they want to see in them, because a) in ME1 they wear human armour and b) there are pictographic representations of Asari on bar signs and in photographs for which this would not apply. That's really how they look. Secondly, they don't just resemble humans, they're all the ideal of 21st century human beauty except for having head tentacles for hair and blue skin tones. They're an all-female species. Then, despite them having no such thing as males, they are attracted to human males regardless. Oh and they're telepathic. And can have mind-sex with anything which can also get them pregnant (?!) and allows them to have kids with humans, or any species. They're all super biotics. They're all super long-living, borderline immortal.

I'm sure that somewhere, perhaps in an obscure jRPG, there is a worse designed species, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. It's like a species designed by a sexually furstrated 13 year old, hot bisexual promiscuous sexually compatible magical immortal telepathic space elves.
 

DraQ

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You are such a fucking shitposter somedays i dont even why i bother to acknowledge your crap.

...

This was what inspired Asari you ignorant lizard, world building in mass effect borrowed heavily from sci fi series from the 90s, but also took a lot from the old serials of the original star trek and this was perfectly in line with that.

That's only half the story. The Asari were not merely a reference to the Blue Skinned Space Babe(tm), they were also designed with being a player-character romance in mind. In ME2 the Drell were also this way, but they wound up making a much less jarring species there having learned that actually, players don't require their romance interests to be 99.99% phenotypically human (insert disgusting Bioware forum posts about Asari sweat here).

Being a reference doesn't mean they were well designed, though. They are almost identical to humans - and no, you can't say this is just asari mind powers making people see what they want to see in them, because a) in ME1 they wear human armour and b) there are pictographic representations of Asari on bar signs and in photographs for which this would not apply. That's really how they look. Secondly, they don't just resemble humans, they're all the ideal of 21st century human beauty except for having head tentacles for hair and blue skin tones. They're an all-female species. Then, despite them having no such thing as males, they are attracted to human males regardless. Oh and they're telepathic. And can have mind-sex with anything which can also get them pregnant (?!) and allows them to have kids with humans, or any species. They're all super biotics. They're all super long-living, borderline immortal.

I'm sure that somewhere, perhaps in an obscure jRPG, there is a worse designed species, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. It's like a species designed by a sexually furstrated 13 year old, hot bisexual promiscuous sexually compatible magical immortal telepathic space elves.
:salute:
Couldn't have put it better myself.

Besides, if BW wanted to go with derpy rubber forehead aliens sci-fi flick aesthetics they should have - as it is magical space lesbians stick out like a sore thumb with no way to hide the fact that they were designed from grounds up as fap fodder.
 

Beastro

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You are such a fucking shitposter somedays i dont even why i bother to acknowledge your crap.

...

This was what inspired Asari you ignorant lizard, world building in mass effect borrowed heavily from sci fi series from the 90s, but also took a lot from the old serials of the original star trek and this was perfectly in line with that.

That's only half the story. The Asari were not merely a reference to the Blue Skinned Space Babe(tm), they were also designed with being a player-character romance in mind. In ME2 the Drell were also this way, but they wound up making a much less jarring species there having learned that actually, players don't require their romance interests to be 99.99% phenotypically human (insert disgusting Bioware forum posts about Asari sweat here).

Being a reference doesn't mean they were well designed, though. They are almost identical to humans - and no, you can't say this is just asari mind powers making people see what they want to see in them, because a) in ME1 they wear human armour and b) there are pictographic representations of Asari on bar signs and in photographs for which this would not apply. That's really how they look. Secondly, they don't just resemble humans, they're all the ideal of 21st century human beauty except for having head tentacles for hair and blue skin tones. They're an all-female species. Then, despite them having no such thing as males, they are attracted to human males regardless. Oh and they're telepathic. And can have mind-sex with anything which can also get them pregnant (?!) and allows them to have kids with humans, or any species. They're all super biotics. They're all super long-living, borderline immortal.

I'm sure that somewhere, perhaps in an obscure jRPG, there is a worse designed species, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. It's like a species designed by a sexually furstrated 13 year old, hot bisexual promiscuous sexually compatible magical immortal telepathic space elves.

But there's <enter BS lore here> to explain WHY they're that way and that makes it all right!!!

:lol:
 

ThoseDeafMutes

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But there's <enter BS lore here> to explain WHY they're that way and that makes it all right!!!

:lol:

How can a whole species be biotic if biotic powers require element zero to exist throughout your nervous system, the rarest and most expensive material in the galaxy? Do all of the hundreds of billions of Asari eat biotic powder supplements when they reproduce?

"Uh, the Protheans did it!"

Although tbh the Protheans being militaristic assholes was the best thing ME3 did for the series lore.
 
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Sacred82

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If you're a prospective dev that's bursting with ideas about the world and the characters within it but you find the business of actually implementing the game part of the roleplaying game difficult or superfluous, I'd say that you should probably go for some other medium. Make it a novel, or if you're autistic artistic and want so show your world, go with a VN. If you wish to preserve the C&C nature of your work, there's a huge amount of engines that allow you to create branching text-based Choose Your Own Adventure games. A lot of people who create RPGs with shit mechanics but ambitious worlds (or who are ambivalent to them) think that it simply is the way to go to deliver their experience, when it might actually be the worst. Play to your strengths and interests, don't try doing something that doesn't interest you or that you're shit at doing in trying to create your experience.

See above, simulation is the electronic medium's forte. I'd put it the other way round, if you want to make a barebones game with great mechanics and shit world building, make it a boardgame. Don't try to fool people into believing you're creating a habitable space when it's all just about mental exercising or competitive play.
 
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Sacred82

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Typically, when player looks at a game, they learn to parse it into tokens.
Tokens are whatever makes sense in terms of mechanics.
However, effective worldbuilding allows games to resist tokenization by blurring the line between what information is relevant and what is just meaningless window dressing, allowing you to actually take the game in instead of playing with tokens. Why? Because it can be used to generate meaningful, structured information beyond systematized, mechanical context - it isn't limited by whatever resolution your mechanics runs at and it isn't limited by your abstract systems. It can be used to convey important information using subtle and unexpected cues, that the player can and will miss if they focus on parsing fucking tokens. This means that if you actually use it instead of just having it as pretty backdrop, player will no longer be able to afford not to take every word and every sound and every pixel in because they will no longer have a reliable and easy criterion of what is and isn't important - the thing is, you need a model according to which this information makes sense, you need this model to be bigger than your mechanics and bigger than you can convey explicitly (else it'll just be tokens all over again), yet you need it replicated in player's head faithfully enough to be usable - without such model any extra information will effectively be white noise. This of course overlaps with simulationism (which is also based on applying this logic to mechanics itself by relying on player's preexisting mental model to approximate mechanics so that it doesn't need to be explicitly conveyable and memorizable even if it needs to be implemented) but if you take simulationism far enough, you end in a worldbuilding land - both exploit the fact that the devs and their audience have something in common - they are humans inhabiting same physical world and preequipped with complex mental models and heuristics of how stuff works - to avoid implementing a lot of very complex relationships in terms of mechanics - for example a game doesn't need to understand how details of NPC's face model or geographical location relate to some strings of text but you can still use it to let an observant player avoid a nasty trap or reap a splendid reward.
Worldbuilding allows gameplay to effectively become informal in a way not unlike it does in a PnP. It's a powerful magic trick with no tradeoffs, not using it is plain fucking stupid.

I have no problems with people gaming the system - it's designing games with people gaming systems in mind that's detrimental to the genre. I partly see the fault with devs discovering addictive gameplay - because for one this often goes along with adrenaline fueled gameplay, and secondly, it goes against offering the player a large world to draw on, reducing it to small systemic spaces where adrenal or endorphinic stimulation is almost guaranteed.

A good RPG lays an entire world at your feet - a bad RPG confines you to a treadmill.
 

Lhynn

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They were also designed with being a player-character romance in mind.
Much like green skined babes were designed to get fucked by kirk? If you cant draw a paralel between this two things you are absolutely fucking retarded.

I dont care about ME2, ME2 worldbuilding was shit, made by a 10 year old.

Being a reference doesn't mean they were well designed, though.
Well designed for what? They were literally designed as sex objects, id say they were masetrfully designed if you keep that in mind.

They are almost identical to humans
latest

Instead of being humans with a coat of green paint, are you fucking stupid now?



they're all the ideal of 21st century human beauty
greengirl1.jpg




they are attracted to human males regardless.
They can be attracted to everything actually, human males are a rather small part of the spectrum, and i believe shepard is about the only human to have a romance with one on the story, outnumebered by turians actually.

Oh and they're telepathic. And can have mind-sex with anything which can also get them pregnant (?!) and allows them to have kids with humans, or any species.
If they werent beautiful you probably would think nothing of this or would actually find it interesting.

They're all super biotics.
Which makes sense actually, considering their position in the council and the fact that they are not very physically apt, something to tick the evolutionary scales on their favor.

They're all super long-living, borderline immortal.
I dont see how this has any relevance. They are long living by human standards, their lifespan is still just a quick fart when it comes to the big picture.

there is a worse designed species, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
I can, fampyrs and xaurips. Also you have yet to explain why they are badly designed.

It's like a species designed by a sexually furstrated 13 year old, hot bisexual promiscuous sexually compatible magical immortal telepathic space elves.
More like a guy in his 30s-40s actually designing a race to be a sex object for the captain kickass to conquer. Much like Orion Slave girls. And it did its job wonderfully, so no, it was actually designed very well to suit the needs of the plot and fill a rather small part of the ME1 universe. And that its "sexualized" is not a fucking issue, tits are cool, i want more tits in my games. I want developers to stop worrying about SJWs and just get creative and put whatever they want in there.

Only thing youve stablished is the impossibility of a race like this existing, which can be applied to almost every race in star trek, or more like every fictional race ever. Swear to god, the criticism this forum directs towards anything bioware or bethesda is beyond fucking retarded, theres plenty wrong with their games on their own, you dont need to actively make shit up.

:salute:
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Of course you couldnt, you are p. retarded.

Besides, if BW wanted to go with derpy rubber forehead aliens sci-fi flick aesthetics they should have - as it is magical space lesbians stick out like a sore thumb with no way to hide the fact that they were designed from grounds up as fap fodder.
You are offended that klingons werent featured? bro we had krogans, which are basically an edgier and dumber version of them.

But there's <enter BS lore here> to explain WHY they're that way and that makes it all right!!!
:lol:
Why would you need a lore reason to make them alright? they are just a race, a minor one when it comes to the plot and how relevant they are to it, behind krogans, turians, quarians and salarians and about on par with volus. But even if the game centered around them, whats so bad about it? Weve had amazons in plenty of games and they were never a thing in real life either.

Although tbh the Protheans being militaristic assholes was the best thing ME3 did for the series lore.
And then the same guy praises ME3. Of course.
 

DraQ

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You are offended that klingons werent featured? bro we had krogans, which are basically an edgier and dumber version of them.
U DUM, BRO?

If other races looked like different coloured humans with differently shaped rubber foreheads, ass-ari would have fit in. But they don't so they don't and instead are a huge, festering and awfully conspicuous zit on the face of the worldbuilding.
 

Lhynn

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If other races looked like different coloured humans with differently shaped rubber foreheads, ass-ari would have fit in. But they don't so they don't and instead are a huge, festering and awfully conspicuous zit on the face of the worldbuilding.
It fit what they were going for perfectly.
Also a race of blue/green womyn with tentacles being "too pretty" sounds like a retarded nitpick from a basement dweller if i ever read one. No, it doesnt ruin the world building, it fits the theme and its inherited from the material the game was inspired in.
 

Wayward Son

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Which makes sense actually, considering their position in the council and the fact that they are not very physically apt, something to tick the evolutionary scales on their favor.
Also, their natural gift for biotics is explained by Javik in ME3. He basically says that before the reapers arrived, the Protheans, as an experiment, dosed the Asari drinking water with Element Zero. This caused their natural gift. The whole mind bonding thing is never quite explained though as far as origins or reasons that happened AFAIR.
 

ThoseDeafMutes

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For some reason you seem to be under the impression that people are denying they are a reference to blue skinned space babes. But that's not the case. They're saying they're stupid, which is also true. They're extremely stupid. The fact that Star Trek did it and now they're referencing it doesn't make it intelligent or good. If we came across the roman empire in space complete with bad costumes straight off the set of spartacus, it wouldn't be smart or good just because Trek did the same dumbass thing in 1967.

They fail because they're not actually aliens morphologically. They are humans with five minutes of makeup on. Yeah, Star Trek did it, because they were running on crappy TV budgets in the 60's. The Asari aren't even up to the level of most Babylon 5 aliens, which actually are people under prosthetics and makeup too. Turians, Salarians, Quarians (prior to the fucking stupid retcon in ME3), Volus, Hanar, Elcor, Vorcha, Krogan, all range from moderately alien to very alien, taking advantage of the creativity of the designers and the opportunities afforded to them by making a game intsead of a low budget TV show. They are predominantly bipedal to simplify animation, although not all, and some don't have legs at all. Not the Asari though, they're just fuck fodder for the commander. A combination of being perfect in every way and a teenage nerd wet dream. I.e. they're shit and should have been rejected as being obviously a bad idea that stands out like a sore thumb at the design meeting where they were proposed.

I can cope with someone liking the Asari for whatever reason, but I've no idea why you have to be hyper aggressive about it.
 

Lhynn

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For some reason you seem to be under the impression that people are denying they are a reference to blue skinned space babes. But that's not the case.
Nope, im very well aware of the real criticism behind this, which is why im calling you an imbecile that has no idea what the fuck hes talking about.

They're saying they're stupid, which is also true. They're extremely stupid. The fact that Star Trek did it and now they're referencing it doesn't make it intelligent or good.
It doesnt need to be intelligent to be good. Its fucking space adventures, its inspired in the series that had a robot fuck a blond big breasted officer because space virus. How do you deal with the retards that believe it needs to be clever and deep to be fun? because i have no idea other than insulting them while explaining something that im fairly certain will go over their stupid heads.

If we came across the roman empire in space complete with bad costumes straight off the set of spartacus, it wouldn't be smart or good just because Trek did the same dumbass thing in 1967.
Sure, but it could be interesting if done right. Which is the point im arguing.

They fail because they're not actually aliens morphologically. They are humans with five minutes of makeup on.
Yet you refuse to acknowledge WHY this was done. Much like orion slaves it wasnt done to make a "3deep4u" statement, it was inspired in the serials of the past and they needed to be beautiful and blue skinned, and promiscuous to be effective. And due to the success the race had and how much people just loved the idea, it succeded. The only failure here are you and DraQ trying to get their dose of hard sci fi in a space opera about space adventures, you couldnt be more misguided in your criticism if you berated fallout 1 for having super mutants and invisibility devices.

Yeah, Star Trek did it, because they were running on crappy TV budgets in the 60's.
No, you stupid monkey, they did it because it was hot, interesting and was what they were going for with said character. If they had wanted to make it ugly they could easily have done so.

The Asari aren't even up to the level of most Babylon 5 aliens, which actually are people under prosthetics and makeup too. Turians, Salarians, Quarians (prior to the fucking stupid retcon in ME3), Volus, Hanar, Elcor, Vorcha, Krogan, all range from moderately alien to very alien, taking advantage of the creativity of the designers and the opportunities afforded to them by making a game intsead of a low budget TV show.
Sure, none of them are fuckable tho, which would miss the entire point of the asaris existing in that universe. You see, jeannette didnt need to be blonde are have huge perfect tits either, she didnt need to dress up as a schoolgirl, she could have been anyone else. Jeannette is by no means a failure in world building, neither was SIE in AP, or about another hundreds of examples i can give you. They make the world interesting and give it an adventurish feel.

They are predominantly bipedal to simplify animation, although not all, and some don't have legs at all. Not the Asari though, they're just fuck fodder for the commander. A combination of being perfect in every way and a teenage nerd wet dream.
This is where you are wrong, its not a teenage nerds wet dream, its a middle aged nerds wet dream.

I.e. they're shit and should have been rejected as being obviously a bad idea that stands out like a sore thumb at the design meeting where they were proposed.
And the world of mass effect would have suffered if they werent there, the spice such a race adds, the amount of people that loved the idea. Silly does not mean bad, especially in a game about space adventures where you are captain kickass, best asskicker of the human race.

I can cope with someone liking the Asari for whatever reason, but I've no idea why you have to be hyper aggressive about it.
Im not being hyper agressive you fucking asshole. Im just being my calm and civilized self. And you are a horrible person with no imagination and a micropenis that praises ME3 lore of all fucking things.
 

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