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Winter War 1939 insinde glorious hexes!

GarfunkeL

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http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/SB/Winterwar/winterwar.html

For 105 days, the tiny nation of Finland fought a war that typically merits only a footnote history books, or a passing remark in a WWII documentaries. Taking on the vast manpower of the Soviet army, the Finns put up a fanatical defense of their homeland, inflicting horrific casualties on the invading Soviet army. In the end, the overwhelming number of Soviet troops and tanks sent into Finland forced the Finns to sue for peace, but they walked away from the conflict with their much bigger neighbor with their independence and national pride intact. Their struggle influenced the landscape and direction of the entire World War that followed--and perhaps the outcome as well. Winter War is a tactical level simulation of this conflict using the Squad Battles system.

Winter War features

58 stand alone scenarios and 3 campaigns to choose from

A wide sampling of actions from this conflict, also including the "Continuation War" of 1941

24 unique maps ranging in size from 1000 hexes to 38,000 hexes providing ample ground for scenario designers to create their own actions

Engine changes include:
Ability to use Asymmetric Scoring in scenarios.
New timed detonation feature for certain weapons.
Armor assault modifier for vehicles assaulting infantry in Clear hexes.
Ability to perform Column Movement via the “Alt” key.
New level in OOB so Squads can be added as an organization.
Capture feature, so prisoners and civilians can be modeled in scenarios.

The game also has the standard scenario, OOB, parameter, database & sub-map editors included with the game. Play modes include A/I, Hot Seat, PBEM, LAN & Internet play.

Has anyone played it? Does Tiller's mechanisms suck ass or not?
 

Annonchinil

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Squad Battles and Civil War Battles are my favorite Tiller games. SB because the system play very fast, models some unique aspects and can effectively portray a large variety of scenario types. Civil War Battles because it is easy to manage and the only Civil War game that I played that actually has strategic maneuvering, so for example you use you cavalry to screen your main body and try to find the dispositions of the enemy.

Winter War is fun too. Soviets have large numbers with more heavy weapons while the Fins have generally better quality, more leaders and are usually dug in. So as the Finns nearly every front looks desperate while as the Soviets you really need to accept high casualties to achieve victory.

Currently I have a fun game going playing the scenario 'Winter Horde Onward Ride' The Soviets have numerical superiority and are motorized while this time the Finns are not dug in but have skis. Its really fun to zip around terrain that your opponent is very immobile in fight delaying actions.

If I could figure out how I would post some screenshots.
 

Jason

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If I could figure out how I would post some screenshots.
File -> Snapshot

If you want to include the interface you'll have to do it the old fashioned way (PrtScrn on your keyboard and then paste into a graphics program).
 
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Winterwar is tied for the best of the Squad battles games. My other favourite is the Spanish Civil war. If you ever played East Front/West Front or Rising Sun, these games are quite similar.
 

Annonchinil

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So how do you actually post sreenshots? I usually just Paste but it does not seem to work.
 

LusciousPear

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Whoa. I've been wanting to play a Winter War game for a while. I have quite a few books on it.

Hrm... a pretty good setting for an RPG, no?
 

Jason

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How so? I'm not really seeing it, but then again I only know the basics of the conflict. Seems like the limited factions (just 2), standardized equipment, and relative lack of ambiguity would limit interesting choices to be made. Please educate me if I'm way off.
 

GarfunkeL

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On the contrary Jason!

You could make the game take part in Ladoga Karelia where the front was quite fluid. Finnish troops had quite an ensemble of uniforms and weaponry, much of it was looted from the Soviets but also because equipment was borrowed, bought and stolen everywhere possible. So you could have a small group, performing reconnaissance, sabotage and hit&run-strikes, working behind enemy lines etc.

That way you could have some freedom for the player in the context of the war.
 

LusciousPear

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GarfunkeL said:
On the contrary Jason!

You could make the game take part in Ladoga Karelia where the front was quite fluid. Finnish troops had quite an ensemble of uniforms and weaponry, much of it was looted from the Soviets but also because equipment was borrowed, bought and stolen everywhere possible. So you could have a small group, performing reconnaissance, sabotage and hit&run-strikes, working behind enemy lines etc.

That way you could have some freedom for the player in the context of the war.

Yeah! I'm thinking part Jagged Alliance, part Deus Ex.

*starts coding*
 

Jason

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On the contrary Jason!

You could make the game take part in Ladoga Karelia where the front was quite fluid. Finnish troops had quite an ensemble of uniforms and weaponry, much of it was looted from the Soviets but also because equipment was borrowed, bought and stolen everywhere possible. So you could have a small group, performing reconnaissance, sabotage and hit&run-strikes, working behind enemy lines etc.

That way you could have some freedom for the player in the context of the war.
Fair enough. I'd buy that.
 
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I'd much rather have a RPG in the era leading to and during the Finnish civil war. Think of the C&C - my officer is telling me to execute these child soldiers - what do I do? And I'd much rather have a choice of sides be conservatives and communists than something like good vs. evil (a choice which you usually only get to make towards the end, anyway). An communist ending could be being executed in the USSR for being dumb and trusting russians.

Anyway, this looks like a game I could enjoy, especially since HoI3 turned out to be unplayable in SP.
 

Annonchinil

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I want a game during the purges.

As for WW I just played the scenario `The Hardest of the Hardest Days`as the Finns and was soundly beat. Maybe I am not that good but the way the engine handles tanks (especially en mass) is just not right, I don`t think that tanks by themselves should be able to assault pillbox hexes. On the on the other hand the infantry game is very fun.
 
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I think I got to level 4 of this game.

The problem I thought was that it was too dependent on luck for the small number of units you are given.

There is one early level where the Russians send 3-4 tanks against you. Your only hope is to hide on the edge of the forest until it's close enough and then swarm them with your troops throwing grenades. You only have 3 squads capable of penetrating it's armor, and their weapons get one use each.

There is a probability you completely fail to do any damage, so if you roll badly on the random number generator two or more times essentially you need to restart the level.

The other thing that annoys me in HPS campaign mode is that it 'forgets' your performance in before-previous missions. Eg, you can do perfectly well in a series of missions which would give you double reinforcements/upgrades than you can use, then win the next but take severe casualties, you can only reinforce 20% of your losses, and it becomes impossible to continue.
 

Trash

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Played it a 100 times and never won.

All HPS games have unfair or hard as nails campaigns. It's part of the fun. I still fondly remember playing through one of the Tour of Duty campaigns set in Vietnam and having fun with each interesting tactical challenge presented while trying to keep my men alive. Then I finally reach the last mission and the game gleefully gives me the finger and just steamrolls a few 100 screaming NVA over my position. Loved it.
 

Annonchinil

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My problem was not the difficulty, nor the nature of anti-tank weapons but the fact that tanks can assault pillboxes without any support. On the one hand tanks have difficulty assaulting in wooded terrain and are better in the open. I just don't see why this does not extend to pillboxes. They should not be able to clear the infantry and claim the hex on their own.

Anyways what do you guys think of HPS Ancient Wars games? I only own Gallic and have yet to beat the AI.
 

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