Will PoE be shit?

[Volourn]

"It's a RTwP system based on one of the worst D&D editions. It's pretty bad. The spell system was pretty interesting, but that doesn't save it."

ABSOLUTE MORAN DETECTED.

 

[Roguey]

Tim "Non-combat abilities" Cain. Tim " Tim "Dote up a craft" Cain. Tim "I've been working on classes and everything related to classes: abilities, skills, spells, combat...you know, the good stuff. For the past several months, Josh and I have been refining the designs for the non-core classes, the classes that are most unusual, classes like the chanter and the cipher and one of my favorites, the monk." Cain.

Sure I guess you can pretend that he secretly hates the project and is miserable, just like a bunch of people here pretend that he secretly hates Oblivion and Fallout 3 when he says he enjoyed them.

Have they added all of the traits yet?

No, it's an ongoing process.

This might be a new idea to you, but actually, here are more game companies than just Obsidian.

The poll option doesn't say "It could have been good, but Obsidian happened."

That JE seems the best dev to you might not make him the best dev to everyone else.

I'm waiting to see someone name a specific Obsidian system designer who's better than Josh at what he does.

 

[Lhynn]

Gotta love volly for being as predictable as the sun raising every morning

 

[Malpercio]

It will be good, then it will be bad, then it will be awesome.

 

[Johannes]

That JE seems the best dev to you might not make him the best dev to everyone else.

I'm waiting to see someone name a specific Obsidian system designer who's better than Josh at what he does.

Not a very high bar unfortunately. I'm better than anyone at Obsidian.

 

[Roguey]

Not a very high bar unfortunately. I'm better than anyone at Obsidian.

What games have you shipped?

 

[Boleskine]

 

[Invictus]

Kind of on the fence here, one one hand I have been pretty happy with other KS proyects I didnt back (D OS and W2) to buy them, but those teams have pretty humble, likable and proven leads which were happy enough to cater to their fanbases instead of saying "I'll show them all" as Sawyer seems to do. The graphics, art, story etc will be fine but the systems underneath feel like a moba with delusions of grandeour; with those cooldown abilities and "balanced" gameplay.
All in all it will be ok but simply not what as offered and what made me pledge in the first place; a proper IE succesor
While Sven will always have my money from here till the end of time, Fargo will have a long look, Fergus and his lack of Ball for sticking with what he pitched in the KS probably wont see any money forward from me again

 

[Invictus]

You know I think I finally got it; why is the game so lamé to me now besides all the Sawyer shit
The whole abilities and cooldowns are not meant for a Rtwp game because they will change the core experience of what we expect from that system to a boring pausefest. In the IE games you could micromanage your casters and tactics but melee fighters could hold their own and do their thing; here verybody has "special abilities" which seem to be to be micromanaged every 2 seconds to make sure your fighter is using his "fart of rage" ability or whatever.
That system would fit perfectly in a turn based game but its what will bog this down to a pause fest and make every single combat a chore
Fuck Sawyer

 

[Higher Animal]

Pillars of Eternity is basically the equivalent of the Codex's first truly big penis.

At first, our tranginas were tingling at the prospect of delving into true tactical complexity within RTWP mechanics. We were naturally lubricated and ready for a good ol' dicking. But then the first penetration happened and it hurt, it hurt bad. It turns out Giant JE Sawyer Penis is not good the first run through. Some of us have gotten scared at the prospect of more. Some of us keep soldiering through by lubing to ease the penetration of this massive, tactical cock inside our tiny trangina insides. Then something magical happens: we begin to adapt. Our codex trangina opens up revealing unknown spots of pleasure that only a JE sawyer Tacti-Penis can reach. And reach it does. And then we no longer need lube because our excitement at the prospect of having our codex trangina insides hit produces its own codexian lube-soup of pleasure. Then we start to cum, but we don't just cum, we CUM. JE Sawyer tacti-penis makes us cum again and again and again. We cum in brand new ways splurging codexian gravy all over JE Sawyer Tacti-Penis as he laughs in our faces. Fuck this asshole! But he makes me cum in spectacular, innovative ways! As JE Sawyer walks away from our stinky, trangina taint he'll look back and send us the most douchebaggey smirk we've ever seen. And then it hits us, nobody can ever fuck our codex tranginas like he can, his PILLAR HAS RUINED US FOR ETERNITY.

 

[Invictus]

That was a really disturbing image, thank you
Now run along to youjizz and do the Randy Marsh buddy, things will get easier from there

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Well, i don't know how PoE will turn out, but I remember how badly D:OS was first received here, and then it turned out to be pretty good, and then Wasteland 2 was trashed for a while, and that also turned out to be pretty good, so hearing all the PoE trashing, I can't help but remain a little optimistic.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Since it's most of the New Vegas team, I expect the narrative and quest design to be excellent. I think Sawyer has mostly the right ideas for gameplay, but on a limited budget and timeline I expect it to be pretty rough/unfun at release. Probably worse core gameplay than D:OS, but the best storyfag stuff of all the incline RPGs.

 

[Markman]

Generic.
Low budget.
RtwP combat and it sucks more than the IE games.
Obsidian.
Black Isle Studios was long time ago. Wake up, ffs.

I voted for This was shit from the start. IE games and RTwP need to die in a fire.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Can someone give a run-down of these Sawyer design decisions that a lot of people are critical of?

 

[Night Goat]

I see no reason to assume it won't be good. I haven't played the beta and I've barely looked at the megathreads, but the hate against this game mostly seems to be the butthurt about RtwP or the usual Codexian nitpicking.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Can someone give a run-down of these Sawyer design decisions that a lot of people are critical of?

no xp for combat

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Can someone give a run-down of these Sawyer design decisions that a lot of people are critical of?

Well, his design decision to end fun is quite controversial for example.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Anyway, PoE's system of positioning and perception radius is much more interesting than a dice roll every 6 seconds determining whether an enemy can see you.

A stealth system with no suspense is not a good stealth system, PoE fails at it while IE one somewhat succeeds (atleast until you bump stealth skill to insane levels).

 

[Athelas]

Anyway, PoE's system of positioning and perception radius is much more interesting than a dice roll every 6 seconds determining whether an enemy can see you.

A stealth system with no suspense is not a good stealth system, PoE fails at it while IE one somewhat succeeds (atleast until you bump stealth to insane levels).

Enemies move around and can move into your stealth radius: if you can move back fast enough you can avoid detection, if you fail, you'll trigger a fight. Seems pretty suspenseful to me. It's way more engaging than stealth was in the IE games.

On the other hand, the idea that you would routinely want to avoid enemies in a combat-focused RPG might be a problem worth examining.

 

[msxyz]

it will be another lost opportunity for Obsidian

 

[Volourn]

The bigger problem is how you get better rewards for avoiding combat than taking part in it in a combat focused RPG.

Ask yourself this simple question: Has one person whined about WL2 xp system (other than Sawyer the anti rpg dude)? NO.

CASE CLOSED. CASE FUKKIN CLOSED.

 

[Gentle Player]

This was shit from the start. IE games and RTwP need to die in a fire.

Closest to my opinion, though I liked IE. But I liked them despite fact that they were RTwP, not because of it. There is no sensible reason in 2014 to design a RTwP RPG, at least not a combat focused one. With Kickstarter, Obsidian had the independence to make their own game without some clown in charge forcing bad systems to be implemented because of a misguided idea of "what the market wants", but they chose to pander to IE fans instead, and in the worst way possible (copying even the bad elements). Even though I have a feeling most of those fans are like me and liked IE despite RTwP, though I could be wrong.

Spoiler

Will probably still pick it up at some point because I'm a graphics whore. Didn't back it though.

 

[a Goat]

People saying PoE will be utter shit are usually the same saying Wastetime 2 and Disneyland: Original Sin is like the second coming of Jesus. These outcast soldiers are not to be trusted among the hive.

Disneyland had good combat. Wastetime has decent writing and you don't yawn yourself to death in fights.
You can write an essay about their flaws(seriously, what was the problem with making W2 combat more like Jagged Alliance rather than Fallout-like but with party and few gimmicks? Who the fuck decided that Divinity has any kind of balance?) but you can have fun while playing those.
With Pillars you can predict that main quest line won't suck dick. You could tell that when they have so many people who made similar games in the past and they still don't know how to do it right, so who knows maybe they'll surprise us with their writing too?

I foresee a great rift in the Codex in the coming months: turn-based versus real-time-with-pause.

People were at it for years.

RTwP is essentially turn-based but the purpose of it is to have some fluidity. It usually ends up in pause-fest though so it's more like Combat Mission series turn-based combat but with turns being 2-6 seconds long(in CM they've lasted for minute and new orders arrived after 15 seconds as far as I remember). So in theory it should be okay for people who like turns. However the execution ends up being extremely tiring for the player.

At the same time the system achieves only one, secondary goal. It allows for cheesing through some shitty encounters with 2 goblins by letting your warriors/rangers kill them automatically without pausing. It doesn't achieve fluidity, it's tiring and tedious.

The only flaw turn-based systems have is their level of abstraction. Which can make it much worse than RTwP for some people.

It goes up to taste but imo. RTwP was flawed from the start and will be always flawed so why bother with it?

 

[bloodlover]

Sooner or later it will still be RPG of the year in Codex polls.