Interview Why Morrowind sucked - the Douglas Goodall interview

[Roqua]

what does FWIW mean? And FTQ? Is there I site I can learn this?

 

[Micmu]

Morrowind is indeed the best cRPG of all times, even better than Oblivion, now stop bashing it.
I made myself a stuffed cliff racer, I'm sleeping with it.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

FWIW means "For What It's Worth". Not sure about FTQ but QFT means "Quoted For Truth" and FTW means "For The Win"

 

[Vault Dweller]

Dungeon Siege, Never Winter Nights, Arx Fatalis, Gothic II, Asheron's Call 2, Divine Divinity, Heroes of Might & Magic IV, and Icewind Dale 2 are some of the other PC RPGs that were released the same year as Morrowind, FWIW.

HoMM is an RPG? Isn't AC2 a MMORPG? As for the rest of the list, well, that certainly explains it. :wink:

 

[vazquez595654]

MrSmileyFaceDude wrote:
Dungeon Siege, Never Winter Nights, Arx Fatalis, Gothic II, Asheron's Call 2, Divine Divinity, Heroes of Might & Magic IV, and Icewind Dale 2 are some of the other PC RPGs that were released the same year as Morrowind, FWIW.

HoMM IV? Another long day huh?

Non of these games with the exception of Gothic 2 are really comparisons against Morrowind. If there actually were developers making Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion type games as competition we would probably be able to compare how crappy Morrowind was to those games. Think if only everquest existed. It would probably get a really good score since you wouldn't be able to compare it with more thought out stuff like DAOC, WoW, Guild Wars, and so on.

 

[Micmu]

Gothic 2 was my favorite game of that year.
I was kinda disappointed with HoMM4 (what has become since 3). Yep, I wouldn't call it an RPG either even if 4 has some elements. That expansion (Gathering Storm) was pretty hero-oriented. But still not really an RPG.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Edit 2: I really have too much time on my hands.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=201890

Yes you definitely do.

Anyway, I predict: 20% chance it'll be locked+edited ASAP, 30% it will disappear without a trace, 20% it will be locked after little insulted fanboys start flaming war, 25% chance it will be ignored with little to none replies, 5% chance it will live.

[removed, please see my post below.
-Archie]

Unfortunately, you didn't give it any percentage chance on it being edited AND allowed to live. It took 1 day for the interview to go bye-bye but the thread is still open.

 

[Kuato]

Dungeon Siege, Never Winter Nights, Arx Fatalis, Gothic II, Asheron's Call 2, Divine Divinity, Heroes of Might & Magic IV, and Icewind Dale 2 are some of the other PC RPGs that were released the same year as Morrowind, FWIW.

FYI only two of the games you mentioned came out before Morrowind in 2002 and one in late 2003- maybe the defintion of PC rpg might be just a tad broad if you are going to lump dungeon siege in with heroes of Might & Magic and Asherons Call

Dungeon Siege Mar 31, 2002 Action Rpg
Heroes of Might & Magic IV Mar 29, 2002 Turned based strategy

Morrowind PC May 7, 2002

Never Winter Nights Jun 16, 2002
Icewind Dale 2 Sep 4, 2002
Divine Divinity Sep 22, 2002
Arx Fatalis Nov 11, 2002
Asheron's Call 2 Nov 20, 2002 mmorpg

2003
Gothic II October 28, 2003

 

[Micmu]

Unfortunately, you didn't give it any percentage chance on it being edited AND allowed to live. It took 1 day for the interview to go bye-bye but the thread is still open.

Dang! They tricked me.

 

[Jora]

Of the games released in the same year as Morrowind, Arx Fatalis is my favourite. I just started replaying it again yesterday with a thief character and am having a blast trying to rob the royal treasury of the goblin kingdom. And baking apple pies, of course. The level of the dungeon with both goblin and troll kingdoms is one of the best areas in RPGs.

 

[Section8]

I enjoyed Arx Fatalis too, but it was a little disappointing, given its desire to be a spiritual predecessor to one of the greatest games of all time. I also found some parts of the game to be pretty much insurmountable with my first character build. My favourite aspect was the magic system, not the irritating gesture system, but the "scientific meaning" of each rune and how they interacted. More games need magic with capacity for experimentation based on logical assumption.

Plus, being called "Arm Shagger" reminded me of that scene in Event Horizon, which once made me want to claw my eyes out. Now it's spank bank material with DVD pausing.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Dungeon Siege, Never Winter Nights, Arx Fatalis, Gothic II, Asheron's Call 2, Divine Divinity, Heroes of Might & Magic IV, and Icewind Dale 2 are some of the other PC RPGs that were released the same year as Morrowind, FWIW.

FYI only two of the games you mentioned came out before Morrowind in 2002 and one in late 2003- maybe the defintion of PC rpg might be just a tad broad if you are going to lump dungeon siege in with heroes of Might & Magic and Asherons Call

Dungeon Siege Mar 31, 2002 Action Rpg
Heroes of Might & Magic IV Mar 29, 2002 Turned based strategy

Morrowind PC May 7, 2002

Never Winter Nights Jun 16, 2002
Icewind Dale 2 Sep 4, 2002
Divine Divinity Sep 22, 2002
Arx Fatalis Nov 11, 2002
Asheron's Call 2 Nov 20, 2002 mmorpg

2003
Gothic II October 28, 2003

I said they came out the same YEAR as Morrowind, not "before" Morrowind. And I got the dates from MobyGames.com in the RPG section. It's their definition of RPG, which admittedly is different from the very narrow definition held by RPGCodex.

Here's their entry for Gothic II. The 2002 release date was the original release date in Germany.

 

[whitemithrandir]

Fuck you Codex. Morrowind saved me from the clutches of Satan.

I lost my legs to a landmine in Vietnam.
I lost my eyes to epileptic anime on a 52 inch high def TV.
I lost my arms to a hungry bear.

I had nothing left to live.

Until Morrowind came and saved me.

Morrowind gave my legs back.
My arms regew because of Morrowind.
Morrowind put new eyes in my sockets.
Morrowind saved me.

BELIEVE AND MORROWIND SHALL SAVE YOU TOO!

Morrowind hit the bargain bin for your sins.

 

[Fintilgin]

Gothic II, Divine Divinity, and Arx Fatalis were good at least.

I think Morrowind's success had little to do with the other RPGs out at the time and more to do with the unique nature of the Elder Scrolls games. There's nothing quite like it's huge 'fantasy-simulator' style on the PC and absolutely nothing like it on consoles.

Plus, hey, it's a great game, IMHO. Sure it sucks if you want a Black Isle style RPG, but if you want a monster smacking, loot collecting, tomb crawling game it's preaty damn solid. I dunno. Sometimes the complaining about Morrowind here sounds like people complaining Diablo didn't have dialogue trees or something.

 

[whitemithrandir]

Gothic II, Divine Divinity, and Arx Fatalis were good at least.

I think Morrowind's success had little to do with the other RPGs out at the time and more to do with the unique nature of the Elder Scrolls games. There's nothing quite like it's huge 'fantasy-simulator' style on the PC and absolutely nothing like it on consoles.

Plus, hey, it's a great game, IMHO. Sure it sucks if you want a Black Isle style RPG, but if you want a monster smacking, loot collecting, tomb crawling game it's preaty damn solid. I dunno. Sometimes the complaining about Morrowind here sounds like people complaining Diablo didn't have dialogue trees or something.

It would be a great dungeon crawler if the combat weren't so goddamn boring. Click on the enemy, watch him die. Repeat ad infinitum.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

From my perspective and my taste of games, 2002 was a pretty excellent year. Morrowind, Gothic II and Arx Fatalis were all pretty good games (in that order). And there is no denying that NWN, Icewind dale, and Divine Divinity found their fans as well. compare that to this years list, and it looks like a veritable golden age. Now next year we will see new installments on a lot of these, so I at least have a lot to look forward to.

 

[Fintilgin]

It would be a great dungeon crawler if the combat weren't so goddamn boring. Click on the enemy, watch him die. Repeat ad infinitum.

Combat probably could have been a bit better, but I actually sorta liked the fully skill based system. The "OMIGOD, LOL my weapon passed through the monster but my character missed" did not bother me at all. I'm really awful at reflex based combat, I suck at Gothic combat (esp. blocking), I suck at Mount & Blade, and I'm dreading that Oblivion will be a little too twitchy-based for my tastes.

 

[Kuato]

It's their definition of RPG, which admittedly is different from the very narrow definition held by RPGCodex.

Well you are the one working for an rpg making company if moby's definition of an rpg is good enough for you, what is that really telling us?

 

[Camrin]

It would be a great dungeon crawler if the combat weren't so goddamn boring. Click on the enemy, watch him die. Repeat ad infinitum.

Agreed. Especially meeting cliff racers on every step when having high level character was bad for my mental health.
A. Battle score tunes in.
B. Whack no1
C. Whack no2
D. Battle score tunes out.
Then I levitate over next hill, and
A. Battle score tunes in...

For me, fight is an integral element of rpg, and sometimes it adds extra quality to game. Mount & Blade was so much better than Morrowind in terms of battle excitement, nearly a perfect example of real time fight. But in all these games together fight is so boring when compared to turn based (selective hits!) in Fallouts.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Console rpgs have nothing for me (besides Fire Emblem) I want that after Hammer and Sickle.

Who would have thought that you, the supposed "RPG warrior" would cite one of the worst RPGs (if you can even call Fire Emblem that) ever made as an actual RPG.

I just like how you constantly put down Morrowind and other games for having a "lack of choice" but actually manage to like the single most linear RPG ever made for the portable console.

In case anyone here hasn't played Fire Emblem, it's basically a dumbed down hex-grid combat game with a totally linear storyline with gamaeplay that revolves around clicking on the spot that the game tells you to select as your next move. The entire game basically plays like a tutorial would in a CRPG, giving you no choice in the matter.

Kind of ruins your whole "RPG purist" standpoint, doesn't it?

By the way, you need to get hit by brick in the face for that whole rant on how tight your asshole is. You might get some of your fellow 13 year olds stiff pricked over your constant attempts to come off as some hardcore, testosterone-laden jerk who is 'too tough for cuddles' with your excessive use of profanity and uncreative japes about the game industry, but nobody really gives a shit.

 

[LlamaGod]

yeah, Fire Emblem sucks fucking dick.

one of the worst games i've ever played

 

[Proweler]

I think Morrowind's success had little to do with the other RPGs out at the time and more to do with the unique nature of the Elder Scrolls games. There's nothing quite like it's huge 'fantasy-simulator' style on the PC and absolutely nothing like it on consoles.

Plus, hey, it's a great game, IMHO. Sure it sucks if you want a Black Isle style RPG, but if you want a monster smacking, loot collecting, tomb crawling game it's preaty damn solid. I dunno. Sometimes the complaining about Morrowind here sounds like people complaining Diablo didn't have dialogue trees or something.

Well thats what Pete ment when he said something about riding a horse.

 

[Stark]

Mount & Blade was so much better than Morrowind in terms of battle excitement, nearly a perfect example of real time fight. But in all these games together fight is so boring when compared to turn based (selective hits!) in Fallouts.

i actually thought the fights in M&B is too tedius. I've enjoyed Gothic's combat alot so i do not think i suck at twitch game. It is the way M&B degenerate into a mess when there're more than 3 or so opponents facing you. I found myself running backwards facing them and they just form a single file running towards me and i just wack them whenever convenient. horse combat get drawn out much longer than necessary: miss hitting the opponent and you need to turn around (an awfully long process) before charging forward again. it gets tedious, fast, when you found yourself fighting more than 3 opponents. now imagine the entire game is about combat...

mount combat is a novel idea. somehow i do not think it translates well in game. this is possibly one consideration Bethsoft takes when cutting out mount combat.

 

[Camrin]

i actually thought the fights in M&B is too tedius. I've enjoyed Gothic's combat alot so i do not think i suck at twitch game. It is the way M&B degenerate into a mess when there're more than 3 or so opponents facing you. I found myself running backwards facing them and they just form a single file running towards me and i just wack them whenever convenient. horse combat get drawn out much longer than necessary: miss hitting the opponent and you need to turn around (an awfully long process) before charging forward again. it gets tedious, fast, when you found yourself fighting more than 3 opponents. now imagine the entire game is about combat...

mount combat is a novel idea. somehow i do not think it translates well in game. this is possibly one consideration Bethsoft takes when cutting out mount combat.

Well, I found the fighting system in Gothic the most irritating thing in the game (apart from linear plot), because it was so much depending on player's ability of "mouse whacking & key pressing", for me it was like some poor version of Crusaders of Might and Magic or Rune. And I think Conan game (also TPP arcade) had quite an optimal real time fighting system, which could be succesfully adapted slightly changed by developer to fit Gothic style. In Conan it still was "mouse whacking", not at all rpg style, but at least so much more enjoyable than Morrowind and Gothic.

I absolutely agree that fights in M&B can be hilarious. As you say, when going back and hitting accurately, player can wipe out numerous enemies I don't know how can programmers overcome that kind of problem with AI, but hopefully they'll find a way to upgrade. But what makes fights in M&B better than in all other real time crpgs, is the way weapons are similar to real ones. I think saying "medieval battle simulation" is a bit too much, but M&B is so much closer to being one than Morrowind, Gothic and all others. And that's the point where I find it's so appealing. I enjoy the mounted fights, that's so rare in games to allow mounted fighting nowadays. At first, I was irritated about the "horse turning rate" and the speed of my character, but when fighting more and advancing, I kinda got used to it, and now when I'm 15 level, all fights are just too easy (and therefore less exciting): I order "hold" to my men, and charge with crouched lance against some 20-30 opponents, usually mounted. My character got so powerful (plate armour, battle horse), that it's a coincidence to get some scar. That's the point when I realized that the great real time figthting is not enough to make a great game. There are like 3-4 kinds of missions in M&B, but all of them cliche. You can trade items and slaves... and that's it, only yes or no for an answer, no moral choices (except "are you swadian or vaegir" ), not much role-playing;/ But I still find it entertaining to play M&B once in a while just for mounted fights.

I've said all that about interesting or less interesting real time fights in games, but I think what all role-playing fans really long for is a good turn based combat, when the result is not dependant on player's "mouse whacking ability" or on his "WSAD perk", but on his wits and imagination - because that's what role-playing is all about. It's a sad thing the developers can't understand that.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Bethesda will be out of business in 5 years, blessedly. They have never sold all that well before morrowind, and the reason they have cash is due to a buyout.

Computer game sales just go down and down and down. Why? Because computer games suck more and more.

They are NOT the same as console games, and trying to make a generic 'video game' that appeals to console gamers is what has killed them. Plain and simple.

You just had to jinx it didn't you Bryce