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Why do you guys think about MMORPGs, and how they compare to RPGs?

anvi

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There is no MMO equivalent of a good turn based RPG, but in terms of action RPGs, I think MMOs are miles ahead of any single player game. My favorites are EverQuest and Vanguard and the latter has the best classes I've ever seen, most of the other MMOs disappoint me too much. But I did play WoW for a month and I think the Druid in that game is probably the best thing I've ever played.

As normal the class plays like a typical Druid, some heals, nukes, damage over time, buffs, etc. But at higher levels it can polymorph into a bear, a lion, or a moonkin. When you polymorph it gets a whole new hotbar full of new abilities. I played on a PVP server and it was one of the most exciting and yet tactical things I've ever played. So I would change into the lion and then you can go invisible. I would stealth through the bushes and look for someone fighting alone. I would wait for the right opportunity and then pounce at them. If I attacked from stealth and from behind, I could backstab and do a fair bit of a damage kind of like a rogue. Then I would stack up some damage over time bleeding type attacks, and as the enemy would start smacking me back, toe to toe, I would switch into bear form and become a lot more tanky. I would boost my mitigation and do some strength reducing attacks and whatnot. Eventually I would win and they would turn and start running away, and then I could turn into the Moonkin form that was like some sort of owl that focused on magic, and I could just nuke them in the back as they ran.

I've recently played Skyrim, Two Worlds 2, Witcher 3, and some other single player RPGs so they are all fresh in my memory, and it amazes me how weak they are compared to this far deeper and more developed MMO combat. Admittedly the more typical MMO combat is just standing around pressing 1234 and watching fireballs and lightning blast weak mobs to death, but there are occasions when MMO combat is really good, and on those occasions it is leagues ahead of any single player RPG.

Yet I like the single player experience. I like being the only hero in the world, the one who drives the story forward, without other people running around getting in my way etc. In an ideal world I would have a nice big open world single player RPG like Witcher 3 or that Mordor Ubisoft game, but instead of terrible combat, I could play as a WoW Druid or an EverQuest Enchanter or Necromancer etc. To me that would be the greatest gaming experience. But it never happens.

What do you think about this? I know a lot of people look down their noses at MMOs and I can understand why, but by this point you must have at least seen some of the great classes they have on those games. Don't you feel cheated when you get a single player RPG like Skyrim and end up running around squirting your one crappy fire spell at dumb easy to kill enemies? I do, very cheated.
 

Gepeu

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There is no MMO equivalent of a good turn based RPG
Dofus
participationtrophy.png
 

anvi

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How is it meaningless? Skyrim has sold over 23 million copies and fighting is mostly what you do in that game. Yet you can do it far better and in a far more interesting way in online games. It is worth talking about if you are interested in games. If you're not, why come here?
 

The Old Kiwi

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IMO, neither one is in the same class as classic CPRGs, not MMOs, and certainly not so-called "action"-RPG games. Sorry about that; betcha I'm in the majority!
 

anvi

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I think they are so different though. A good tactical RPG is my favorite but I sometimes like to get some action. But I need the action to not be mindless button spamming. When it is done well (and it is very rare), it can be as fun as a tactical crpg.
 

grimace

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it amazes me how weak they are compared to this far deeper and more developed MMO combat

What MMO has "deeper and more developed combat" ?

Skyrim has sold over 23 million copies and fighting is mostly what you do in that game. Yet you can do it far better and in a far more interesting way in online games.

In what online game? The Elder Scrolls online?
 

Bester

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Play any of the Dark Souls, Nioh, or Dragon's Dogma, then get back to me about how no ARPG's combat is as good as MMOs.
Difference between those and WoW is target vs non-target. As target goes, WoW is pretty good. It's difficult to have non-target in mmos though due to lag. Possible, but less doable, unless it's in first person.
 

anvi

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it amazes me how weak they are compared to this far deeper and more developed MMO combat

What MMO has "deeper and more developed combat" ?
Compared to Skyrim, Two Worlds, Risen, Gothic, etc? EVERY MMO.

Skyrim has sold over 23 million copies and fighting is mostly what you do in that game. Yet you can do it far better and in a far more interesting way in online games.

In what online game? The Elder Scrolls online?
ESO is better than Skyrim for sure, but quite simple compared to other MMOs.
 

anvi

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anvi

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Play any of the Dark Souls, Nioh, or Dragon's Dogma, then get back to me about how no ARPG's combat is as good as MMOs.
Difference between those and WoW is target vs non-target. As target goes, WoW is pretty good. It's difficult to have non-target in mmos though due to lag. Possible, but less doable, unless it's in first person.
There are some MMOs with no targetting required. GW2 lets you just shoot stuff and do abilities. It sucks though.
 

Beastro

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deama

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Well, there is Wakfu, a turn based mmorpg. You can get a classic DnD adventure going if you add in several friends into the mix.
 

anvi

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Play any of the Dark Souls, Nioh, or Dragon's Dogma, then get back to me about how no ARPG's combat is as good as MMOs.
I already played Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma. Neither of them are as good as a good MMO. Not even close in fact. Look at this and educate yourself:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...vel=1&opt=And+Higher&expansion=&action=search

Dark Souls is very shallow.

Brofist for having the list set to Necro~
I don't understand what is wrong with people here. That link shows a game where you have about 100 spells at level 20 and they still want to tell me Dark Souls is deeper.
 

DavidBVal

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My problem with MMORPGs is (in my case) they end up becoming less of a game and more a tool for escapism, so I decided to let them go forever around the era of Everquest Gates of Discord expansion.

That game had incredible dungeon design tho, and raid encounters were super fun.
 

DavidBVal

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But what about the combat?

I don't play action RPGs so I don't know. My experience is very old and limited, EQ combat felt vaguely like Morrowind, I remember it being tolerable. The problem with anything MMO is how fool-proof everything needs to be. By definition, you can't make any "broken" abilities or spells, because then every character would be built around them. Everything is balanced to a nauseating point, to make it fair among classes, etc. Such overbalance is often a deal-breaker for me.
 

Metro

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Play any of the Dark Souls, Nioh, or Dragon's Dogma, then get back to me about how no ARPG's combat is as good as MMOs.
I already played Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma. Neither of them are as good as a good MMO. Not even close in fact. Look at this and educate yourself:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...vel=1&opt=And+Higher&expansion=&action=search

Dark Souls is very shallow.

Brofist for having the list set to Necro~
I don't understand what is wrong with people here. That link shows a game where you have about 100 spells at level 20 and they still want to tell me Dark Souls is deeper.
Bard's Tale games has 100 spells, doesn't mean it was mechanically deeper than Dark Souls.
 

anvi

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But what about the combat?

I don't play action RPGs so I don't know. My experience is very old and limited, EQ combat felt vaguely like Morrowind, I remember it being tolerable. The problem with anything MMO is how fool-proof everything needs to be. By definition, you can't make any "broken" abilities or spells, because then every character would be built around them. Everything is balanced to a nauseating point, to make it fair among classes, etc. Such overbalance is often a deal-breaker for me.
The opposite is true of EverQuest. They gave the player so many things, it is one of the only games I've ever played that had "emergent gameplay" where people would figure out ways to play that the devs never even thought about. As far as I know, only one of those was nerfed, and several others became a key part of how to play.

Play any of the Dark Souls, Nioh, or Dragon's Dogma, then get back to me about how no ARPG's combat is as good as MMOs.
I already played Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma. Neither of them are as good as a good MMO. Not even close in fact. Look at this and educate yourself:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...vel=1&opt=And+Higher&expansion=&action=search

Dark Souls is very shallow.

Brofist for having the list set to Necro~
I don't understand what is wrong with people here. That link shows a game where you have about 100 spells at level 20 and they still want to tell me Dark Souls is deeper.
Bard's Tale games has 100 spells, doesn't mean it was mechanically deeper than Dark Souls.
I'm talking about 100 spells at level 20, in a game that started with 50 levels. And you need them all. Dark Souls is a dumb hack n slash game for dude bro teens on a console. Sorry to break it to you.

p.s. Love that this thread triggered you so deeply you had to go through my post history and rate the entire first page.
 

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