Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

[FeelTheRads]

Technically it IS virtually something. Seems like we both are as ignorant on the matter.

No, technically you are a retard. I actually know very well what I'm talking about.
You said more trees was not possible because it would've taken too much disk space since you are so retarded to think 10 trees take 10 times the space of 1 tree.
The actual disk space required to have more trees is so little it's virtually nothing.

Your pathetic semantics mumbo-jumbo does not negate FACTS. You have no clue what you're talking about, but like always you keep yapping. How about reading some wikis, at least, or do you just like to get virtually destroyed every time you try to discuss a subject?

 

[Sigourn]

''I haven't played Oblivion to judge it properly. But''

I think you should just stop right there and go play it. Why even jump into the bandwagon like a sheep if you havent played past the intro.

''Just by running around and sneaking I raised my Stealth skill like ten times. Or at least five. It's something I can accept in Skyrim, but not in what is widely considered "the best TES game" by a lot of folks.''

Thats a pretty amazing argument.

A game with awful combat, broken levelling, and spoonfed quests (+ potato faces) doesn't sound like a game I would be interested in for very long. It's like asking me to eat shit to get through to the pussy at the bottom.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

How about prove it or shut the fuck up? Im not able to prove my point (and IDGAF about disk space), and neither are you, but you try to act like you're right. In the end the game not being the way you wanted does not really count as a flaw.

You're trying so hard to derail the subject into virtual disk space, because at its core the argument on the generic setting is worthless. Every cRPG ever has a generic medieval fantasy setting, aside from some rare cases. It proves what I was saying earlier, Oblivion haters are not really RPG fans and dont have much experience with those games.

Oblivion might not have lush jungles but it has 'lush' side-quests.

Sigourn Now I know you are a sheep because you complain about 'broken leveling' but havent played much past the intro to experience it yourself.

You complain about 'Awful combat' which is MUCH better than Morrowind and still comparable to Skyrim. If you thought the combat was a reason to quit then how the fuck did you keep playing Morrowind.

At this point Ill just assume that anyone complaining about potato faces is a filthy casual that never played a game released <2000. Seriously, complaining about appearances in a RPG...

The 'non-broken leveling' in Morrowind forces you to grind levels with its shit combat system in order to access those 'non-spoonfed quests'.

Seems like you're confused in your own judgements, too much social pressure maybe.

 

[Wayward Son]

And you're going to tell me you experienced level scaling issues on day 1? I dont think so.

Actually yes you do since loot is scaled so you end up going through an Ayleid ruin and only have 12 more gold, two iron swords, a couple bows and a potato, along with some welkynd stones rather than some, oh I dunno, Elvish shit since they were elves. I even said as much to my brother (with less cussing) when we first played the game. If someone who's 8 years old can figure out how stupid that mechanic is, you should too.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

And you're going to tell me you experienced level scaling issues on day 1? I dont think so.

Actually yes you do since loot is scaled so you end up going through an Ayleid ruin and only have 12 more gold, two iron swords, a couple bows and a potato, along with some welkynd stones rather than some, oh I dunno, Elvish shit since they were elves. I even said as much to my brother (with less cussing) when we first played the game. If someone who's 8 years old can figure out how stupid that mechanic is, you should too.

Sounds like a legit reason to uninstall the game on the spot...smh...

I wouldnt really call that an issue, but more of a design choice. Its not perfect but if you've played enough video games you know that it cannot be perfect. The alternative is static levels but then that would lock you out of most of the content and require grinding.

I still think the guy was trying to refer to the bandits in glass armor thing, hes just confused.

 

[the_shadow]

While I do think Oblivion has some flaws, and there are legitimate criticisms against it, a lot of the hate on the RPGCodex does seem to stem from posters either jumping on the bandwagon or responding negatively to all the hype that it was "The best RPG eva!111!" as touted by gaming reviewers of the time.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

When Skyrim can be a more fun to play than Oblivion you know Oblivion did something wrong

 

[Wayward Son]

I wouldnt really call that an issue, but more of a design choice.

To be fair, most issues people have with games happen to also be design choices or bugs.

The alternative is static levels but then that would lock you out of most of the content and require grinding.

Not really, many open world games have enough content for all levels so that if you find something to be outside your level range then there's plenty else to do until you are able to tackle that dungeon. I don't consider this grinding (though you might) since it is experiencing different content in the game rather than a repetitive action just to gain power.
Edit: The second part of he post was more in response to the claim of requiring grinding.

 

[Delterius]

 

[mfkndggrfll]

When Skyrim can be a more fun to play than Oblivion you know Oblivion did something wrong

Its like saying when your sister can be more fun to play than your mom you know your mom did something wrong. It doesnt make sense.

I wouldnt really call that an issue, but more of a design choice.

To be fair, most issues people have with games happen to also be design choices or bugs.

The alternative is static levels but then that would lock you out of most of the content and require grinding.

Not really, many open world games have enough content for all levels so that if you find something to be outside your level range then there's plenty else to do until you are able to tackle that dungeon. I don't consider this grinding (though you might) since it is experiencing different content in the game rather than a repetitive action just to gain power.
Edit: The second part of he post was more in response to the claim of requiring grinding.

Well in Morrowind the MQ has a level requirement before Caius gives you your next task and that requires grinding. DF also had level reqs on the MQ which was a major flaw to me since I had a strong build and didnt need the extra levels.

 

[Wayward Son]

When Skyrim can be a more fun to play than Oblivion you know Oblivion did something wrong

Its like saying when your sister can be more fun to play than your mom you know your mom did something wrong. It doesnt make sense.

lol someone plays a little too much Crusader Kings

 

[FeelTheRads]

How about prove it or shut the fuck up? Im not able to prove my point (and IDGAF about disk space), and neither are you, but you try to act like you're right.

I am in fact right.

Also, you defended the game by bringing up disk space. Live up to it. Not my fault you keep trying to talk about shit you know nothing about.

If you actually had any brain you could've said that the engine couldn't have handled so many objects and would have affected the frame rate, but you are too retarded to tell apart disk space and performance.

 

[JarlFrank]

I wouldnt really call that an issue, but more of a design choice. Its not perfect but if you've played enough video games you know that it cannot be perfect. The alternative is static levels but then that would lock you out of most of the content and require grinding.

Well in Morrowind the MQ has a level requirement before Caius gives you your next task and that requires grinding. DF also had level reqs on the MQ which was a major flaw to me since I had a strong build and didnt need the extra levels.

I don't think you understand the concept of "grinding".

Grinding = repeatedly fighting random mobs in order to level your characters so static challenges will be easier; some games have design that require you to grind either by making static encounters so hard you have to grind in order to win them, or make random mobs so frequent you can't avoid grinding.

Well-designed levels that follow a logical structure, like simple rat caves being easy for low level characters, bandit lairs being medium, and demon-infested dungeons being hard, isn't "grinding". If there's high level endgame content but you can reach the required level simply by exploring every dungeon and doing every quest without ever going for repetitive grinding of random encounters, there is no grind.

Having to level up in order to tackle harder dungeons has nothing at all to do with grind whatsoever.

You're just proving that you have no actual clue about game mechanics whatsoever.

 

[Okagron]

I recall that a lot of disk space in Oblivion was taken by voice acting because Bethesda said "This is what the kids want". It wasn't an artistic or design choice, it was to please the casuals. Because that's what Oblivion is, a game to please the casuals. This is why they had to remove a lot of stuff from Morrowind, stuff people loved because it couldn't fit into the disk.


I used to like Oblivion, but now to me it's a terrible, nonsensical mess where you can become the leader of the Mages Guild by not casting a single spell. Hardly any consequences or choices during the whole game. It's a game that actively discourages the player from LEVELING UP because enemies don't become challenging when you level up, they become damage sponges. You know you fucked your leveling system when you don't want to level up. And all of it can be directed to the level scaling in the game which is terrible.

And when you want to level up, the game encourages you into picking the skills you are gonna use as minor skills and skills you are not gonna use as major skills. Because then you got the max possible stats boost when you level up. This is how bad the leveling system of Oblivion is.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Much AI.
So radiant.
Wow.

 

[Lazing Dirk]

Oh boy, here we go again.

I lol'd at "The more trees the more CDs".

Spoiler

I'd guess the actual value would be something like

• 32-bit value for item ID (what tree model it is)
• 16-bit value for which cell it is in
• 3x32-bit values for x/y/z position within cell
• 3x16-bit values for x/y/z scaling
• 3x16-bit values for x/y/z rotation
• 4x8-bit values for branch flexibility and whatever
• 1 byte as a null token for the name (most wont have one)

So about 35 bytes per tree, or ~33.4mb for literally a million trees. Maybe an extra byte or two if each tree model has variations for dead/alive/leaves/no leaves.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

I wouldnt really call that an issue, but more of a design choice. Its not perfect but if you've played enough video games you know that it cannot be perfect. The alternative is static levels but then that would lock you out of most of the content and require grinding.

Well in Morrowind the MQ has a level requirement before Caius gives you your next task and that requires grinding. DF also had level reqs on the MQ which was a major flaw to me since I had a strong build and didnt need the extra levels.

I don't think you understand the concept of "grinding".

Grinding = repeatedly fighting random mobs in order to level your characters so static challenges will be easier; some games have design that require you to grind either by making static encounters so hard you have to grind in order to win them, or make random mobs so frequent you can't avoid grinding.

Well-designed levels that follow a logical structure, like simple rat caves being easy for low level characters, bandit lairs being medium, and demon-infested dungeons being hard, isn't "grinding". If there's high level endgame content but you can reach the required level simply by exploring every dungeon and doing every quest without ever going for repetitive grinding of random encounters, there is no grind.

Having to level up in order to tackle harder dungeons has nothing at all to do with grind whatsoever.

You're just proving that you have no actual clue about game mechanics whatsoever.

Well to gain levels in Morrowind while staying effective you need to raise combat skills, which requires standing still and spamming mouse clicks on monsters/NPCs. That is grinding to me, you dont even grind to make the challenge easier, but just to have access to it. If I consider the writing and quest design to be bland, it is grinding. Just because the enemies are unique doesnt make kill them less grindy.

''Having to level up in order to tackle harder dungeons has nothing at all to do with grind whatsoever.''

Well yes, that is pretty much what it is. Forced repetitive actions required in order to progress to a certain point. What you refer to is MMORPG grinding, but RPG grinding also exists.

@LazingDirk Even then, a lush jungle isnt composed of a single tree model. There would need to be a crapton of other unique assets to make it look good, which counters your point about only needing space for a single model.

You know more than me on the subject you probably know why the jungle wouldnt have been possible, yet you come to argue like a hypocritical faggot.

And lol Okagron who still think that Morrowind is teh best cRPG evar and that all the dumbing down started from Oblivion.

 

[Sigourn]

Sigourn Now I know you are a sheep because you complain about 'broken leveling' but havent played much past the intro to experience it yourself.

Here's your proof, all in one video (minus quest marker):



I don't need to play the game further than the first 30 minutes to know everything I say is a fact, as proven my thousands of comments (and videos) on the Internet.

You complain about 'Awful combat' which is MUCH better than Morrowind and still comparable to Skyrim.

Morrowind's combat is better than Oblivion and Skyrim's. It does exactly as advertised. For games advertised as "action RPGs", Oblivion and Skyrim's combat are anything but thrilling.

At this point Ill just assume that anyone complaining about potato faces is a filthy casual that never played a game released <2000.

Low quality graphics =/= bad graphics.

Morrowind's lower quality models look better and are more charming to boot.

The 'non-broken leveling' in Morrowind forces you to grind levels with its shit combat system in order to access those 'non-spoonfed quests'.

It's called "deleveled world". You aren't supposed to be able to do everything from the get go. And if you grind in order to tackle quests, then it's your own fault, not Bethesda's. Bethesda eventually realized most people are morons and decided to scale the world around them, creating a world with glass-armored bandits.

Not even with mods that slow down leveling while remaining everything else unchanged (BTB's Game Improvements) did I ever feel the need to grind.

Seems like you're confused in your own judgements, too much social pressure maybe.

I couldn't care less asbout what the Codex thinks of me. I didn't get the Village Idiot tag for licking the ass of tons of popular Codex games.

 

[JarlFrank]

Well yes, that is pretty much what it is. Forced repetitive actions required in order to progress to a certain point. What you refer to is MMORPG grinding, but RPG grinding also exists.

Never when playing Morrowind did I ever feel the need to repetitively do a certain action just in order to level it up. My skills increased naturally by use while I travelled and explored. Using my combat magic and melee weapons whenever necessary - during encounters on the roads or when exploring a dungeon - I always manage to raise my skills high enough, to the point that when I head towards the endgame I'm really OP, even if I don't put much effort into leveling my skills up on purpose. Using the trainers also helps, especially since gold becomes plentiful in the lategame.

That's not grinding. That's natural challenge level progression.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Sigourn Now I know you are a sheep because you complain about 'broken leveling' but havent played much past the intro to experience it yourself.

Funny, I know some dumb shit who did the exact thing about another game.

 

[Wayward Son]

And lol Okagron who still think that Morrowind is teh best cRPG evar and that all the dumbing down started from Oblivion.

I don't think he ever said that. He said Morrowind was better.

Well yes, that is pretty much what it is. Forced repetitive actions required in order to progress to a certain point.

If the leveling happens naturally as a consequence of playing the game, then no it's not grinding.

@LazingDirk Even then, a lush jungle isnt composed of a single tree model. There would need to be a crapton of other unique assets to make it look good, which counters your point about only needing space for a single model.

Still wouldn't take up 10 CDs, so it's a moot point.

 

[Okagron]

And lol Okagron who still think that Morrowind is teh best cRPG evar and that all the dumbing down started from Oblivion.

I just love that instead of trying to debunk any of my criticisms, you just resort to nonsense that i never said. And the reason you can't debunk any of my criticisms is because they are all true. When you can't come up with any arguments you just to resort nonsense. Well, more nonsense than your regular nonsensical arguments.

Can't wait for you to start using a wiki to say how much better Oblivion is compared to Morrowind. Because you didn't actually played Morrowind (and if you did, you probably didn't get pass the first town) and just a butthurt retard that a lot of people don't like your precious Obivion.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Sigourn You point at videos but YOU havent even experienced those flaws yourself! Amazing, that is the true definition of a sheep. I bet you also watched videos that explained why Morrowind was the best ES game. Cant imagine having to be so weak minded that other's opinions can bend your own so easily.

''Morrowind's combat is better than Oblivion and Skyrim's.''

See what kind of damage social pressure can do?

''And if you grind in order to tackle quests, then it's your own fault, not Bethesda's''

No it is the game's fault because its written in the game code that I need to gain levels to unlock parts of the MQ.

Wayward Son ''If the leveling happens naturally as a consequence of playing the game, then no it's not grinding''

What if all quests reek of MMORPG filler trash? You need to grind your combat skills for sure. Leveling is also a requirement for playing the game. IIRC people grind in MMO just to reach the next level and unlock more quests, which is the same as Morrowind.

Okagron I dont need to debunk your criticism because its weightless. I asked why people HATE Oblivion, not criticize. Its like if you start making a long ass bullet point list about the flaws of Daggerfall, all I could say is 'cool story bro', because its weightless in comparison to the pros. You just plain suck at arguing your points are not even worth any attention.

 

[Jacob]

Off topic, but I never actually played a game where grinding is necessary except MMOs, what single player games are shitty enough that you need to grind?

 

[Sigourn]

Sigourn You point at videos but YOU havent even experienced those flaws yourself!

I haven't cut my dick off so I'm unable to claim such an act is painful.

I bet you also watched videos that explained why Morrowind was the best ES game.

No, I put over 300 hours into it despite Skyrim players (the fanbase of the game I used to play) saying Morrowind was outdated, confusing, clunky, etc.

No it is the game's fault because its written in the game code that I need to gain levels to unlock parts of the MQ.

The game never forces you to grind. It is up to you to do quests to get better, or grind on your own. But the game never tells you "GRIND".

What if all quests reek of MMORPG filler trash?

If you think Morrowind's quests are like that, maybe you need to drop RPGs.

You need to grind your combat skills for sure.

You don't. As you play you will get stronger naturally.

Leveling is also a requirement for playing the game. IIRC people grind in MMO just to reach the next level and unlock more quests, which is the same as Morrowind.

Tell me which quests require you to be a certain level in order to proceed. And by "proceed", I mean "being able to get the quest" as opposed to "being up to the challenge of completing the quest". Because even when you meet Caius Cosades and he tells you you are inexperienced, nothing stops you from asking the quest from him anyway.