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Why aren't historical time periods used more as settings within RPGs

Telengard

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The end of every place
The description is not that interesting, but Xbox only...why such a waste... :negative:[/QUOTE]
Agreed, it was a waste that they made a number of historical and semi-historical RPGs direct for consoles.

It is emulatable. But you're not missing much. It is notable for its unique setting and for trying to do a few different things in its strategic combat (kind of like a fore-runner of Blackguards), and it is grid-based combat, but everything else bespeaks of consolitis.

Same thing with Koudelka of the Shadow Hearts series, right down to being gridded, emulatable, and bespeaking consolitis.
 

Smejki

Larian Studios, ex-Warhorse
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Belgistan
Another example of how moderntards fail to understand medieval society. For them, everything is about class, which fails to explain how somebody could be born a peasant and still become a renowned scholar and eventually even Pope:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_II
Silvester_II._and_the_Devil_Cod._Pal._germ._137_f216v.jpg


Medieval depictions of demons were so much cooler than the banalshitboring ones we get in all the games today.
Well you have Wayne D. Barlowe's work which is awesome.
He worked on Dante's Inferno but I've never seen its art and don't know if it resembles his paintings. If yes, great (at least this part of the game is good). Anyway it's about time he makes concepts for some yet another devil-ish game.
 

Norfleet

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Messages
12,250
Sadly, I don't think a single example of a Korean war FPS exists. A really underutilized (or rather, nonutilized) setting for gaming in general. You'd think WW2 (and post-WW2) American and Soviet hardware going at it would give it instant appeal but unfortunately not.
The Korean War isn't called the "Forgotten War" for nothing. Pretty much no one remembers it, despite the fact that it's chock full of great content for games.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Sadly, I don't think a single example of a Korean war FPS exists. A really underutilized (or rather, nonutilized) setting for gaming in general. You'd think WW2 (and post-WW2) American and Soviet hardware going at it would give it instant appeal but unfortunately not.
The Korean War isn't called the "Forgotten War" for nothing. Pretty much no one remembers it, despite the fact that it's chock full of great content for games.
No one remembers it cause the faggots couldn't even bother to finish it.
 

poetic codex

Augur
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Messages
292
Kingdom cum dev reacted to Sawyer's video:

Most of this just requires more effort and creativity, which is of course an issue for artists working for their livelihood. I really think Tolkien fantasy is just the path of least resistance, which is very tempting for anyone.

What's funny is that games don't even use Tolkien fantasy. I've never played an RPG game that had a real Tolkien setting. What we see in video games is more a derivation of tabletop D&D setting.

Tolkien elves are nothing at all like the frail D&D elves. Tolkien dwarves are fierce warriors, but not the buffoonish Scottish drunks they're often portrayed as in D&D. A highly trained human like Turin Turambar could match any elf in agility and combat prowess, but this is not possible in D&D with their humans=below every other race garbage. I would gladly play an RPG based on the Silmarillion setting. That would be a true Tolkien RPG.
 

DalekFlay

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What's funny is that games don't even use Tolkien fantasy. I've never played an RPG game that had a real Tolkien setting. What we see in video games is more a derivation of tabletop D&D setting.

Tolkien elves are nothing at all like the frail D&D elves. Tolkien dwarves are fierce warriors, but not the buffoonish Scottish drunks they're often portrayed as in D&D. A highly trained human like Turin Turambar could match any elf in agility and combat prowess, but this is not possible in D&D with their humans=below every other race garbage. I would gladly play an RPG based on the Silmarillion setting. That would be a true Tolkien RPG.

Tolkien-inspired, high fantasy... hell, Forgotten Realms. Whatever term you want to use the fact remains 90% of RPGs are almost identical. New franchises like Dragon Age finally get the go-ahead from their corporate masters and they end up making the same exact shit. Kickstarter opens the doors for new indie RPGs by fans for fans and most of them are set in the same fucking fantasy settings. The few that aren't are sequels to old classics, already proven. At the heart of it is the simple fact that no one wants to risk the effort of doing something legitimately new and getting nothing in return.
 

Tigranes

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Messages
10,350
Sadly, I don't think a single example of a Korean war FPS exists. A really underutilized (or rather, nonutilized) setting for gaming in general. You'd think WW2 (and post-WW2) American and Soviet hardware going at it would give it instant appeal but unfortunately not.
The Korean War isn't called the "Forgotten War" for nothing. Pretty much no one remembers it, despite the fact that it's chock full of great content for games.
No one remembers it cause the faggots couldn't even bother to finish it.

We will, we will. And when we do WE WILL FINISH YOU.
 

tuluse

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Messages
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tolkien-inspired, high fantasy... hell, Forgotten Realms. Whatever term you want to use the fact remains 90% of RPGs are almost identical. New franchises like Dragon Age finally get the go-ahead from their corporate masters and they end up making the same exact shit. Kickstarter opens the doors for new indie RPGs by fans for fans and most of them are set in the same fucking fantasy settings. The few that aren't are sequels to old classics, already proven. At the heart of it is the simple fact that no one wants to risk the effort of doing something legitimately new and getting nothing in return.
Expeditions: Conquistador
Shadowrun Returns
Wasteland 2
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Unrest
The Mandate
Serpent in the Staglands

Vs

Divinity: Original Sin
Pillars of Eternity
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
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Messages
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Expeditions: Conquistador
Shadowrun Returns
Wasteland 2
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Unrest
The Mandate
Serpent in the Staglands

Vs

Divinity: Original Sin
Pillars of Eternity

Quite the selective vision you have there. Also note 3 on your list are sequels, which I mentioned already. So really it's Unrest and Mandate (neither of which I have even heard of) versus Divinity and and PoE. Hmm I wonder which two of those are more high profile.

Staglands looked pretty fucking typical fantasy to me, but I haven't read any plot/lore stuff.
 

buzz

Arcane
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Messages
4,234
A bit convenient to skip on the ones the Codex doesn't particularly cares about or that plenty of then are sequels to old classics.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
162
Kingdom cum dev reacted to Sawyer's video:

Most of this just requires more effort and creativity, which is of course an issue for artists working for their livelihood. I really think Tolkien fantasy is just the path of least resistance, which is very tempting for anyone.

What's funny is that games don't even use Tolkien fantasy. I've never played an RPG game that had a real Tolkien setting. What we see in video games is more a derivation of tabletop D&D setting.

Tolkien elves are nothing at all like the frail D&D elves. Tolkien dwarves are fierce warriors, but not the buffoonish Scottish drunks they're often portrayed as in D&D. A highly trained human like Turin Turambar could match any elf in agility and combat prowess, but this is not possible in D&D with their humans=below every other race garbage. I would gladly play an RPG based on the Silmarillion setting. That would be a true Tolkien RPG.

Tolkien fantasy is used as he popularised the setting of elves, dwarves, and orcs as common races whereas most fantasy at the time had mythological creatures be fantastical and rare. The only thing that has really changed are minor cosmetic changes, like making elves pansies (which they always were anyways), giving the dwarves scottish accents (cause giving yiddish accents would have been annoying), and making orcs evil rather then the physical incarnation of mankinds evil. If the books are anything to go by a proper Tolkien RPG would be boring as shit, I'll pass.

Also in DnD humans are generally considered the best default race and generally among the best choice for any class along with pure cheese races, and they have since been buffed furthermore.
 

tuluse

Arcane
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Jul 20, 2008
Messages
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Quite the selective vision you have there. Also note 3 on your list are sequels, which I mentioned already. So really it's Unrest and Mandate (neither of which I have even heard of) versus Divinity and and PoE. Hmm I wonder which two of those are more high profile.

Staglands looked pretty fucking typical fantasy to me, but I haven't read any plot/lore stuff.
Wasteland 2 is the only sequel on the list.
 

Athelas

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Messages
4,502
Wasteland 2 is the only sequel on the list.

Okay let's have a retardo bullshit semantics argument about sequels versus "spiritual successors" when both fall into the "old versus new ideas" point I was making anyway.
We're talking about setting. Are you saying TToN and PST have the same setting?
If your argument is that non-generic settings are doing great, why did T:ToN need to trademark Torment (an established property) and use it in the title and for PR?
 

tuluse

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Messages
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
If your argument is that non-generic settings are doing great, why did T:ToN need to trademark Torment (an established property) and use it in the title and for PR?
Well Torment wasn't a generic setting to begin with.

Anyways I don't have to prove the opposite to win. DalekFlay claims "generic fantasy" does much better on kickstarter. He does specify fantasy btw. He makes some comment about sequels which doesn't hold water (why were the originals popular if they're not generic fantasy?).

I don't have to prove that every non-generic fantasy setting is popular to show that generic fantasy is not the most popular thing on kickstarter.
 

DalekFlay

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Well Torment wasn't a generic setting to begin with.

Anyways I don't have to prove the opposite to win. DalekFlay claims "generic fantasy" does much better on kickstarter. He does specify fantasy btw. He makes some comment about sequels which doesn't hold water (why were the originals popular if they're not generic fantasy?).

I don't have to prove that every non-generic fantasy setting is popular to show that generic fantasy is not the most popular thing on kickstarter.

You're completely missing the point. I'm not talking about success, I'm talking about risk. I think more settings would be successful. I think people who play Torment would also play a dystopian future RPG or a Mars outpost RPG or whatever the fuck else (if it were well made and well promoted). What I am talking about is publisher and developer aversion to risk. They take the easy, more sure route of endless fantasy bullshit. When they do try something else they go for sequels or "spiritual successors" of stuff that was already successful. And on the rare, rare occasion when they actually risk a new setting they almost always make it a hybrid with other genres, like half-shooter Mass Effect.

I'm not saying only fantasy is successful, I'm saying boring fucking money-men and scared developers think that way.
 

Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
Well Torment wasn't a generic setting to begin with.
Sure, but it wasn't succesful when it was released, so that works against your argument. It took years for Torment to grow in popularity. If any random non-generic RPG could be a smash succes, T:ToN would have hardly needed to use PS:T's legacy as a jumping off point, would it?

Anyways I don't have to prove the opposite to win. DalekFlay claims "generic fantasy" does much better on kickstarter.
No, I think he meant something does well on Kickstarter if it's derivative of an established property in some way, or at least, that's what the people behind those Kickstarters think. PoE, WL2 and T:ToN are all successors to BG, Fallout and PS:T respectively.

EDIT: ninja'd.
 

tuluse

Arcane
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Messages
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Pst sold about twice as many copies as fallout and was profitable. The "it wasn't successful" meme needs to die.
 

Athelas

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Messages
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I don't see how that helps your argument. Fallout also has a non-generic setting, after all.

And selling twice as very little still isn't much. :P
 

Ninjerk

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Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Profit is profit. These big companies could afford to send the Tim Cains of today into a broom closet to make low budget test beds for new IP. Research and development, people.
 

buzz

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Apr 1, 2012
Messages
4,234
Let's be fair to big companies and publishers, they're not as averse to new settings as much as you think. In fact, I tended to notice that most generic fantasy stuff comes from small-time fries, middleware and shovelware developers or things like that.

I mean, take Activision. They probably take the safest choices out of all companies, releasing the blandest shit possible and milking them dry. Also movie tie-ins up the ass.

But then, the few RPGs that Activision published are not like that. First, they co-published Gladius with LucasArts, a tactical console RPG with the exact historical setting we're talking about in here, gladiatorial fights during the Roman empire. Then they've published these little things called Vampire: The Masquerade RPGs.

Bethesda made one of the most bland and generic games setting-wise with Oblivion, then bought the IP of Fallout (one of the more unique takes on post-apocalyptic, mixing it with retro-futurism) and brought that back to the public surface, even if they failed to make a properly good game. Years later, they hired Arkane studios (who only did fairly generic fantasy before that) and made/let them do a new game in a few and fairly unique setting.

Bioware for most of its lifetime has done fairly safe choices. First three games were D&D, then a game based on a successful franchise, and lately only pushing sequels to their generic space opera and "dark fantasy" games. The only one that feels truly out of the ordinary for them and RPGs in general is Jade Empire ... published by Microsoft.

Same with Obsidian. You'd imagine Sega would make them do a Phantasy Star or a Sonic RPG, but no. Instead, they let them do an espionage RPG, Alpha Protocol that is.

And that's just on the RPG front, in other games they often go to wild territories setting-wise with no issue. Like Rockstar, the guys who have one of the most successful franchise of games in history, they've developed/published a Wild West open world game AND a noir/detective game.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Let's be fair to big companies and publishers, they're not as averse to new settings as much as you think. In fact, I tended to notice that most generic fantasy stuff comes from small-time fries, middleware and shovelware developers or things like that.

I mean, take Activision. They probably take the safest choices out of all companies, releasing the blandest shit possible and milking them dry. Also movie tie-ins up the ass.

But then, the few RPGs that Activision published are not like that. First, they co-published Gladius with LucasArts, a tactical console RPG with the exact historical setting we're talking about in here, gladiatorial fights during the Roman empire. Then they've published these little things called Vampire: The Masquerade RPGs.

Bethesda made one of the most bland and generic games setting-wise with Oblivion, then bought the IP of Fallout (one of the more unique takes on post-apocalyptic, mixing it with retro-futurism) and brought that back to the public surface, even if they failed to make a properly good game. Years later, they hired Arkane studios (who only did fairly generic fantasy before that) and made/let them do a new game in a few and fairly unique setting.

Bioware for most of its lifetime has done fairly safe choices. First three games were D&D, then a game based on a successful franchise, and lately only pushing sequels to their generic space opera and "dark fantasy" games. The only one that feels truly out of the ordinary for them and RPGs in general is Jade Empire ... published by Microsoft.

Same with Obsidian. You'd imagine Sega would make them do a Phantasy Star or a Sonic RPG, but no. Instead, they let them do an espionage RPG, Alpha Protocol that is.

And that's just on the RPG front, in other games they often go to wild territories setting-wise with no issue. Like Rockstar, the guys who have one of the most successful franchise of games in history, they've developed/published a Wild West open world game AND a noir/detective game.

Interesting observation. There may be something of a selection effect going on here.

It's not that large publishers particularly like making non-generic games. It's that the largest publishers have the marketing clout to confidently publish non-generic games. They're the ones who can push them through and make people get them.

So even though there may not be a lot of non-generic games in absolute terms, when they do show up, it's often the largest publishers who are hawking them.
 
Last edited:

Telengard

Arcane
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Messages
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The end of every place
Publishers aren't evil bastards who deny things to deny them (usually); you just have to convince them it will sell. And you do that by giving them a good line, such as selling cool.

-What's hot in movies right now? HK flicks like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Greenlight that HK RPG, what was it, Jade Empire. That had cool ka-pow, didn't it?

-Vampires are hot right now, specially with that Buffy chick, and those Twilight books. Greenlight that shit.

-Man, that Gladiator movie. Clang. Thunk. blah blah balh

Or you can go the Rockstar route and be rockstars, churn out hit after hit, and then eventually be allowed leeway to do something different and just get handed the money. And if you don't fall on your face, they'll give it you again.

History, though. History ain't cool.
 

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