Which RPG has the worst combat?

[octavius]

Worst turn based combat: Ultima IV. Slooooooow and boring, with hardly any tactics, and too many random encounters.
Worst real time: Ultima 7, I guess.

I think we have not yet seen a game with both excellent mechanics and excellent encounter design. A few come close but nothing approaching amazing.

Closest IMO are:
Gold Box games. Poor AI and limited options, though.
BG1+2, and IWD. RTwP means less control (and thus more butthurt), but they have lots of options, excellent encounter design (especially BG2 and modded BG1) and decent AI (very good with the right mods).
And I'd also like to mention Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. Excellent mechanics (better than any pure cRPG I've played), bur rather poor (and unmoddable) AI, and encounter design can be very good and varied (all units are moddable, and encounter design is mostly dependent upon which mods you use and which maps you play).

 

[octavius]

If you are assuming RtWP games have better combat encounter then no. Sure ToEE encounters were not designed well in few cases but lets be frank here almost all RTwP games have bad encounter design because most of the time you have party which goes to fight buffed to oblivion where enemies start to cast protective spells after fight start. That complely beside biggest problem with RTwP. Trash mobs. Those games are filled with tons of trash mobs. And when you have trash mobs then there is no tactic involved just mundane spells, skills, abilities repeated till everyone dies.

When you have Turn based combat you know you can't just put 100 lizards in dungeon and get away with that. Because it would tale literally hours to get past that dungeon in TB. So instead of filling every corridor with trash mobs TB combat designer instead focus on fewer but much more interesting enemies and obviously harder enemies.

So instead of spending hour fucking every lizard in dungeon and rolling eyes out of boredom you spend that hour fighting 2-3 fights where you constantly thinking tactically.

You haven't played many CRPGs, have you?

 

[Serus]

Sorry but infinity games are very, very far from "excellent mechanics". Coming from someone who liked BG2 and IWD1 a lot.

 

[mondblut]

In the words of Excidium: Crock shit.
Dark Souls is real-time without pausing & features one of if not the best RPG combat systems.

Dark Souls is an RPG?

 

[mondblut]

Don't have them quaff potions and buff themselves.

You are the player: Stop stacking buffing items on them.

If all else fails give him a butter knife.

Don't give him overpowered stats.

If anyone still didn't get PST is a visual novel for larper subhumans, here is your proof.

What's your preferred pronouns?

 

[octavius]

Sorry but infinity games are very, very far from "excellent mechanics". Coming from someone who liked BG2 and IWD1 a lot.

Well, I think the mechanics of BG2 were good enough that the overall result is the closest to a CRPG "with both excellent mechanics and excellent encounter design."

 

[Mangoose]

Sorry but infinity games are very, very far from "excellent mechanics". Coming from someone who liked BG2 and IWD1 a lot.

Well, I think the mechanics of BG2 were good enough that the overall result is the closest to a CRPG "with both excellent mechanics and excellent encounter design."

Spellcasting mechanics were good. The rest, no.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

From what I've played:

Any IE game
Divine Divinity
Arcanum
Morrowind
Vampire: Bloodlines
Diablo series
Titan Quest
Wizardry 8

Morrowind, PST and Bloodlines excelled in other areas so I can forgive them, but all the others were shit because of combat being the primary focus.

 

[murloc_gypsy]

Meh, Arcanum and NWN had shit combat, sure, but I don't think it was THAT bad. I mean, it could be enjoyable some times. What really pisses me off is the combat system in ARPG popamole click-fests like Diablo, Torchlight and others. Mouse-burners, they call these. Seriously. I only finished Diablo 2 out of these sorts of games (Lord knows why) and I remember my mouse just gave up on my somewhere in the last act. I also remember Gothic 3 had some really inane combat in vanilla. I haven't tried any of the other games people keep mentioning here, but I'm sure there's some shovelware out there that makes even those shine.

Oh yeah, melee combat in Morrowind was utterly retarded.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

From what I've played:


Wizardry 8

You are a shitty human being.

 

[mondblut]

From what I've played:

Wizardry 8

How about your preferred pronouns?

 

[Mangoose]

Meh, Arcanum and NWN had shit combat, sure, but I don't think it was THAT bad. I mean, it could be enjoyable some times.

I seriously do not remember enjoying any combat in Arcanum. Passable at times, maybe, but enjoyable is pushing it.

Also throw Div2 up there with DivDiv as it's essentially the same thing except over the shoulder and jumping!

 

[DefJam101]

Diablo

 

[Deleted member 7219]

You are a shitty human being.

Why do my opinions offend you so much? So many delicate flowers on this forum.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Meh, Arcanum and NWN had shit combat, sure, but I don't think it was THAT bad. I mean, it could be enjoyable some times. What really pisses me off is the combat system in ARPG popamole click-fests like Diablo, Torchlight and others. Mouse-burners, they call these. Seriously. I only finished Diablo 2 out of these sorts of games (Lord knows why) and I remember my mouse just gave up on my somewhere in the last act. I also remember Gothic 3 had some really inane combat in vanilla. I haven't tried any of the other games people keep mentioning here, but I'm sure there's some shovelware out there that makes even those shine.

Oh yeah, melee combat in Morrowind was utterly retarded.

Gothic 3's combat on release was pretty bad but I think the unofficial patch did a lot to fix it - or keep it out of the really awful list, at least.

 

[Agesilaus]

Planescape: Torment. Combat is just one of many "worst" categories where Torment brings home the gold.

 

[Broseph]

Planescape: Torment. Combat is just one of many "worst" categories where Torment brings home the gold.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

So few nominations for Bethesda and Obsidian games? NWN or Arcanum have horrible combat, but both seem pretty nice compared to the crap from these two devs.

 

[JarlFrank]

You are the player: Gimp yourself on purpose to add challenge to a game with badly designed systems! It's not the game's fault that you exploit it!

This is the most retarded argument of all time.

 

[Darkion]

You are the player: Gimp yourself on purpose to add challenge to a game with badly designed systems! It's not the game's fault that you exploit it!

This is the most retarded argument of all time.

Heh, I was trying to be sarcastic. Obliviously failed.

 

[Whisky]

Tough one...

Arcanum has too many huge issues, in general it just feels wrong as soon as you play it. It's poorly balanced and the real-time option is laughable (except for smashing through trash mobs).

NWN is just awkward to use and coming from Baldur's Gate, which does RTWP right, it feels absolutely atrocious. I don't think anyone can defend NWN (r00fling intensifies) except for the module creation abilities.

Personally, I really fucking hated Ultima 7's battle system. It's totally different from the previous Ultima games and the real time part of it is so poorly implemented you had to wonder why they even bothered. I'll even go on the fucking record as saying that the (Godawful) SNES port of Ultima 7 had better combat where it was an awful Zelda clone rather than whatever the fuck inspired them to do that real time abomination.

Yet, aside from NWN (And even that had some cool modules) I like these games.

 

[Jaesun]

In the words of Excidium: Crock shit.
Dark Souls is real-time without pausing & features one of if not the best RPG combat systems.

Dark Souls is an RPG?

Character stats and stat based combat is certainly a PART of cRPG mechanics.....

 

[Perkel]

Then point me any game that is not Fallout Tactics with good combat system involving guns that is comparable (at quality scale) to JA2 combat.
Because i would fucking gladly play it. And i don't even mean TB. Real Time will also do. Because that is state of those games on PC. There are like few of them in last 10 years and almost all of them are shit. Only recently Xenonauts broke that curse but it isn't anywhere near JA2 level.

7.62 HC

Thanks dude. Now i finally have something to play with proper gun combat. Didn't know about this game.

 

[Mangoose]

You are the player: Gimp yourself on purpose to add challenge to a game with badly designed systems! It's not the game's fault that you exploit it!

This is the most retarded argument of all time.

Heh, I was trying to be sarcastic. Obliviously failed.

You went too full retard in your act. It was a good troll but not a good intentional satire.

 

[Azalin]

Ultima 7 probably gets my nomination