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Incline Which part of the Gothic series is the best? (Poll)

The beste Gothic game is...


  • Total voters
    210

Siobhan

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
472
Location
1X 1Y 2Z
I've only played the first two, and the first one is my personal favorite. Gothic 2 is somewhat difficult to evaluate. Objectively it is a good sequel in the "moar of everything" style, but personally I found it incredibly uninspired and I had to force myself to finish it.

The first Gothic is one of the best RPGs I've played in the last 5 years (yeah, late to the party), but it did have rather glaring flaws such as the rudimentary combat system, underwhelming loot and itemization, the way armor and thus your survivability is tied to plot progression, and the fact that there's very few secrets on the map that aren't tied to a quest. I was hoping that Gothic 2 would improve on that, but in what has since then become PB tradition, it just copy-pasted most of the previous game without fixing any of the flaws but introducing a few new ones:

  • exploration has less verticality
  • the new inventory system is a pain
  • there's serious pacing issues with a hundred quests thrown at you in the first city while later chapters introduce only half a dozen or so
  • the (tediously generic) story gets shoved in your face with the very first frame
  • exploring the main island is pretty boring because there's nothing new to see compared to the first Gothic (example: you come across a dark cave near the light tower, think to yourself "hmm, probably a shadowbeast in there", and yup, there it is)
  • the same goes for combat, which is still the same and doesn't require learning any new strategies (the most egregious case being the first fight against the troll; it's meant to be a grand cinematic moment and gets promptly deflated when you realize that the good old speed potion + circle-strafing technique still works like a charm)
  • since you can now damage enemies irrespective of your level and equipment, many enemies turn from unbeatable horrors into a tedious but easy grind; for example, killing a single orc only requires decent dodging skills and lots of patience
  • exacerbating the previous point: NOTR HP bloat
  • NOTR's new character system doesn't add anything except that you're now forced to specialize till the very end of the game, but since that's exactly how I played the first Gothic it had no impact on my playing style
  • retarded implementation of skill point tablets incentivizes hoarding them until the later chapters
  • no meatbug sequence breaking
Gothic 2's shortcomings are a result of the uninspired PB recycling machine perennially resting on its laurels. At the very least they should have modified the combat system, e.g. adding shields and blocking, preventing you from luring single enemies away from their group, or better mechanisms for group fights. It would have also been pretty easy to give the game world a more distinctive look; maybe something in the vein of Albion's first island, or more like the desert valley on the second island.

tl;dr If you played Gothic 1 before 2, the latter is a mind-numbing by-the-numbers affair.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
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Jun 21, 2015
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Third World
  • exacerbating the previous point: NOTR HP bloat
  • NOTR's new character system doesn't add anything except that you're now forced to specialize till the very end of the game, but since that's exactly how I played the first Gothic it had no impact on my playing style
  • retarded implementation of skill point tablets incentivizes hoarding them until the later chapters
I hated that shit, even a rusty sword need like 30 STR
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
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Penal Colony, start from the botton > The sunny countryside where the hero regains his lost powers


Better story and atmosphere > Bigger+better gameplay, when they're both good, IMO


How do I vote halp
Something must have more importance to you, nein?

Basically the same debate as Fallout 1 vs 2; if you'd vote for FO1, I'd expect you'd vote for G1.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I'd legitimately murder someone if it promised me more G1-G2:NotR.

Also, G2: NotR is my favorite, as it is the one that is most replayable and still presents some degree of challenge early on.

Recent play through I went mage and dex-fagged my way up to acrobatics so I could superman jump everywhere. Best game ever.

If only Risen didn't turn to such dogshit after the first game /single tear.
 
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Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
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Third World
is it better to play G2 once before installing NotR? the game is like 100 hours right? I probably won't end up playing it twice but w/e
NOTR is integrated to the game, so you'd have to start over I think. And if you bought on Steam (or got a new GOG version, it seems) you cannot run vanilla G2.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
It's not 100 hours tho, unless you're the kind who insists on killing every orc 1v1 way earlier than you should and so have to reload a billion times.

get polymorphing but be wary of the reconsitution bug that permanently lowers stats/skills/armor based on bonus granting items like rings and belts. ho ho hooooo

real pc gaming, the kind with bugs so hard they make you wanna slap your momma
 

ScubaV

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,022
I love Gothic 1 and 2, they're two of my favorite RPG's. Like people already mentioned, G1 has the better setting and more focus while G2 just has more of everything and is generally more polished.

The german voice acting was great too, but I have no idea how the english one is.!

The English voice acting generally falls into the "so bad/cheesy, it's good" category. It works perfectly with the shitty, but funny animations (punching towards the ground or waving arms at the waist while talking) and the sarcastic asshole dialogue. It basically gives the impression that everyone is half-retarded, which with a bunch of prisoners like that is probably true.

is it better to play G2 once before installing NotR? the game is like 100 hours right? I probably won't end up playing it twice but w/e

I could be biased by my experience since I played G1, then G2, then G2 with NotR, but I might recommend it. NotR might be overly long if you get bored easily and as another poster mentioned it disrupts the game's pacing by having expansion content basically thrust into the middle of G2. Also, it increases the difficulty and messes with the skill system such that it encourages weird player behavior like hoarding stat boosters.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
is it better to play G2 once before installing NotR? the game is like 100 hours right? I probably won't end up playing it twice but w/e
It's more like 50 hours long for a playthrough if you are really stretching things. You can go as low as 35 hours if you've beat the game and know how things work.
 

Got bored and left

Guest
Man, I'm a huge sucker for Gothic 1. A lot of my affection for this game probably comes from the fact that I played it a lot as a kid (in fact, it's one of the first cRPGs I've ever played!), so I have huuuge nostalgia for this game, its atmosphere, characters, storyline, exploration, everything - even the stupid control scheme and inventory managment don't bother me as much as they probably should. Even today, hearing the soundtrack gives me goosebumps. I will agree that Gothic 2 is probably the better game overall (except, of course, in the atmosphere and story department. I mean, we went from penal colony mystery to "Oi, mate, there be some dragons, go kill them, lol"), but muh feels demand that I vote for G1.
 
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Incantatar

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
453
I'd say overall G2:NotR is the better game but i enjoyed G1 a bit more. No game i played sucked me more into the world than Gothic 1.
 

A user named cat

Guest
The Gothic 1 and 2 comparison is similar to Fallout 1 and 2. Both are great games with the sequel being more of the same with a few tweaks, mostly it's just larger and expanded. Sure they could've fixed more but I was more than happy with essentially a great big expansion pack, then another expansion pack on top. Like stacking cheese on a cheeseburger. So there was no compromising or dumbing down. I'd say 1 is the better overall experience though as it's more concise and less Elder Scrolls-like but they're both classics, probably the best action RPGs ever made. Plus this:

 

Xbalanque

Educated
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
92
Location
Land of blossoming onion
I personally preferred Gothic 2 Vanilla, NoTR was great and added a lot of content, but had serious balance issues. The story was a lot more interesteting however in comparison to the main plot.

Anyway, Gothic I had a lot more interesting setting with the Prison Colony, Barrier, the Sleeper cult, and additional content, which may not have been much but was greatly done, I lovedd the brewers close to the New Camp and the fight with the Troll.

I hated Gothic 3 - the world was immense, but you had copy+pasted quests from the first parts of Gothic where you had to pick up plants and stuff - it was not justified enough for me. In Gothic 2 I was a loser with no money nor force so it made sense for me to work on a farm, in Gothic 3 I was a powerful warrior from the start and it made no sense to boost my reputation this way. Also, the combat system got broken.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
California
i played this for like a minute before, well, the controls.

any cure for that shit?
 

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
First Gothic wins hands down.
It has one of the coolest and most unique settings out there.
 

Biscotti

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
561
Location
Belgium
I went and voted NOTR because it simply has more of everything, like others have already mentioned. With that said though, I can't pick one over the other. Where Gothic 1 exceeds in a compelling setting and interesting story, NOTR does with a beautifully handcrafted and detailed world and buckets of content.

I remember booting up G2 for the first time and being awestruck when dirt roads actually looked travelled on instead of just being flat textures. It's such a stupid little detail, but it stuck with me anyway.
 

skacky

3D Realms
Developer
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,506
Location
The City
While I prefer NOTR, I believe Gothic 1 does have a better setting and overall atmosphere than Gothic 2. The game feels more sinister.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
3,914
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I agree about the Gothic 3 wanderlust - thing!
Also, I feel like Gothic 3 has probably the best soundtrack of any game I've ever heared!

You didn't include the stand-alone Forgotten Gods, which was a mediocre, barely serviceable bridge between Gothic 3 and Gothic 4. I doubt anyone would have picked it.
Yes, I mentioned that I forgot to include that piece of trash in my second post.
It's not mediocre, it's totally ridiculous! Rarely have I seen such accidentally comical dialogue in a game.
It wasn't developed by PB but was being oustourced to some Indians who apparently cannot into Western RPGs.

You also didn't include the Risen series, which is a shame because I'll plug again my understanding that Risen 1 is basically a Gothic 2 HD, and it fills that role quite well: slightless less content, but beautiful visuals, clear and "modern" interface (full mouse support, drag&drop, just streamlined overall), more traditional action-y combat, etc.

It's a great introduction to the Gothic series without even being officially a part of it, and if you were sad when PB discontinued Gothic, it is also a consolation price, considering that, plot-wise, it seems to pick up right after Gothic 3.
When it comes to mechanics and stuff like that, Risen was very Gothic-ish (as you've mentioned). Unfortunately, neither setting, story nor atmosphere were anywhere near the excellence any of the three original Gothics had.
It felt pretty bland imho.

Risen 2 was utter shit, and while Risen 3 is moderntard console popamole gameplay wise, in some areas of the world it has the best / most Gothic-like atmosphere of the Risen series.
 

A user named cat

Guest
Gothic 3 was horrendeous in almost every regard, it doesn't even belong in this discussion. Maybe in comparison to Two Worlds since they're equal in amounts of bland ogre shit. To prefer it over the first two Gothics is a shining beacon of retardation and shame in taste. G3 wasn't a game, it was a half-broken botony simulator with terrible combat and the worst optimization since Ultima 9. It will forever sit on my shelf, collecting dust and feeling the shame that no amount of fan patches can fix. Risen was eons better and almost made up for that travesty. Almost.
 

agentorange

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
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rpghq (cant read codex pms cuz of fag 2fa)
Codex 2012
Gothic 3 may be terrible in some ways but it has:



Gothic 3 was actually the first Gothic I played; I think the fact that I continued playing despite the 10 minute long load times, the combat that basically devolved into "whoever struck first wins because the other person gets stun locked", speaks to the fact that there was definitely something to the game. Like Marie said, the exploration was very fun, and unlike the elder scrolls game every location in Gothic 3 seemed, similar to the first and second game, hand crafted and unique.

I haven't finished Gothic 2 NotR but off the bat I prefer Gothic 1, simply because of the setting and plot structure. Gothic 2 definitely feels like more of a generic fantasy setting, whereas I have never played a game that had a similar atmosphere and environment to Gothic 1.

It may also sound odd but I really liked how brutally you were treated in Gothic 1; you are a new arrival in a prison and naturally most people treat you like scum and try to take advantage of you (I remember how pissed off I got when the one dude leads you outside, saying he wants to show you something, and steals all of your stuff). It is a great contrast to most games of the RPG ilk that treat your character like the divine chosen one from the outset (elf: hey i need four elder flowers for my elixir bring them to me and i'll make you head of the thieves guild you've earned it).

Also it has one of the greatest quests in any RPG: selling weed to the various camps.
 

Cthulhu_is_love

Guest
Gothic II: NotR of course; bigger, better and the atmosphere a bit worse
I always loved mine valley in Gothic 2.
That was an amazing feeling, when they threw you in the world of G1. It was great when you saw familiar things.
I always liked that feeling in Gothic 2, when you see characters like Lares, Diego, Lester, Gorn, etc.
(they were nothing spectacular, but you see them from time to time; heavy bro-feeling i got there)
Also the expansion was fun because of that:
bloodwyns_kopf.jpg
 
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