Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Which Oblivion Dev Lied The Most?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Darkflame, Sep 21, 2006.

  1. Darkflame Scholar

    Darkflame
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    209
    ^ Top  
  2. whatusername Scholar

    whatusername
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    619
    Location:
    burp
    MrSmileyFaceDude is good. I've never read such big lies from a game dev before.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

    and

    [Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcore RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."

    are my favourites.
    ^ Top  
  3. Lumpy Arcane

    Lumpy
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,445
    They didn't necessarily lie. When Developers talk about their games, they are usually enthusiastic and exaggerate about them.
    ^ Top  
  4. Lumpy Arcane

    Lumpy
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,445
    [Kathode] "All screenshots we've released are 100% in game showing stuff we've already got implemented. We haven't done any special poses or anything like that, with the exception of magazine covers."
    Which is true.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "I'm sorry, but what part of "without losing our hardcore rpg fans" don't you understand?"
    Wrong prediction.

    [Slateman] "Each of the faction lines in this game have plots and quests to much greater depth over MW. Quality, not quantity."
    Factions do have storylines, rather than being a random succession of quests.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."
    Depends on which way you look at it. Unlike Morrowind, NPCs actually say unique things most of the time. And it's all voice acted.

    [Todd] "As you play, you start to figure out what you can do with these NPCs, and how you can influence their behavior, and when doing a quest, it really comes into play. A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."
    Big lie. But then again, this is Todd.

    [VSXX] "We have everything from mice to moles to crickets. The most fearsome you have ever seen even! You thought sleeping at night with a singing cricket outside your window was bad. You wait till you meet the one that plays a 14 piece drum set outside your window."
    It did have a large variety of monsters, larger than Morrowind, I think.

    [Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcore RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."
    Over-enthusiasm combined with PR bullshit. Not dirty lying though.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

    If you think this is a simple, dumbed down hack & slash, you couldn't be more wrong."
    The NPCs are more interesting than Morrowind (although that isn't really a huge achievement). Stats play an important role. Some quests are better written, although they involved too much combat. Again, not really a lie.

    [BlueDev] "For Oblivion, there's a very concious effort to avoid too much random information spewing by NPCs. Fear not--there's still the same amount of info to be found in the game. In fact, the NPCs probably have more than ever to say; it just makes more sense for them to say it."
    Exaggeration.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is infinitely superior to Morrowind in every conceivable way."
    Just his personal opinion.

    [MattRyan] "So for all of you thinking that it would be neat to steal something, and then take off on your horse....guess what? An NPC can do the same dirty trick to you as well. "
    This is a lie, indeed.

    [Todd] "The clothing you wear does affect certain NPC's, but not in a big way, it’s subtle."
    And it doesn't? I think clothing affects NPC disposition.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "Broken shields and weapons are automatically dropped and they clatter to the ground using Havok physics. Broken armor stays on, but is ineffective and you'll know if you're wearing broken armor or not."
    They probably just changed their mind. After all, it wouldn't have been really hard to implement.

    [Slateman] "While I cannot go into detail, rest assured that even players who max out a bunch of skills will discover challenges in this game. We didn't leave you guys out "
    I don't really know what he's talking about.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "Just because you can attempt to bribe someone does not mean they'll automatically accept it."
    Changed their mind.

    [MattRyan] "We are gamers. We have given tons of time toward the balance of gameplay. Asside from the designers, artists, programmers, and producers.... our staff of QA testers are extremely good at exploiting our game systems and looking for loopholes in gameplay, or shortfalls in fun vs. realism.

    In conclusion, to completely cut out any adjustment to difficulty in enemies would not be fun, just as making all creatures off-set to your level would not be fun."
    So... which part of this is a lie?

    [Slateman] "Yep. To second MSFD, we don't auto-level exactly to your level. We have all sorts of adjustments available. If we didn't the game would be boring "
    Again, I suppose they decided to change that later on.

    [MattRyan] "If everything was leveled then you'd have no fear of anything in the game ('I can beat everything!') We plan on scaring the heck out of the player by higher level creatures."
    As above.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "You're walking through a seedy part of a town in Western Cyrodiil. People mill about, some engaged in conversation, others minding their own business, out on their own errands. Suddenly, an ugly man decides he doesn't like you. Maybe he's drunk, maybe he's just a bully, maybe he's just showing off in front of his friends -- but for whatever reason, he has taken your measure and decided he can best you.

    He comes charging at you, with a nasty looking mace in his hand and a look of hatred on his face. Onlookers move back to make room for what should be an entertaining fight.

    Quickly drawing your sword and shield, you wheel around to face him. He's upon you pretty quickly though, and you barely have time to raise your shield (hold right mouse button) before his first blow thunders down upon you.

    But you block well, and as he recoils from the collision, you quickly perform left & right slashes with your sword (left click, pause, left click). The bully realizes this isn't going to be easy.

    He backs off a bit, and starts dodging around you. First to the left, then to the right. You maneuver to keep him in view, looking for an opening. Suddenly he steps back, raises his mace in both hands, and steps forward, bringing the mace towards your head in a crushing blow!

    But you're quick -- you step to the side as he attacks. As he passes by, you execute a spinning maneuver and slash him in the side (hold left mouse button and left maneuver key). The hit is solid, and your foe staggers from the blow.

    But it's not over yet. The bully swings his mace wildly -- his first swing misses, but the next one connects for a blow that sends you staggering. Pressing his advantage, the bully bears down on you with a power attack of his own. OUCH. This isn't going well. You take a glance at your health meter, it's getting a bit low. You quickly back up out of the bully's reach and raise your shield (hold right mouse button).

    He's hurting, too. You circle each other for a time, looking for an opening, trying to recover some fatigue. Finally the bully charges forward with a devastating overhead blow, perhaps hoping to break your shield. But the shield holds and the recoil send him staggering back. This is your chance! You perform a mighty forward power attack (hold the left mouse button, press forward) and connect solidly. The blow staggers your foe once again, and you perform 3 slashing attacks in rapid succession (left mouse button, pause, left mouse button, pause, left mouse button), and finally the bully collapses to the ground, defeated.

    The crowd disperses, going back to their own business."
    I suppose this is just enthusiasm. There aren't any clear lies in there.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "We happen to think that console gamers are smarter than that, and the success of Morrowind on Xbox proves that console gamers actually ARE interested in games with MORE depth and complexity than some people seem to think they are."
    What is the lie?

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "I absolutely guarantee that they'll be able to make mods that will completely blow away anything we saw for Morrowind, using the new Construction Set."
    Script Effect, for example.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "You can only use the map-based fast travel to go to places you've already been. So you'll HAVE to walk to each possible location AT LEAST once."
    WHAT THE FUCK? This is 100% true.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "We could make traditional creatures that looked like every other depiction of those creatures you've seen in books, movies, or other games, but then where's the originality in that?"
    Right... I don't get this either.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "NPCs would have to be told to go into your house via Radiant AI. And even if they WERE, you could always lock your door..."
    Changed their mind.

    [Slateman] "Trust me, you're going to get lost if you wander in these forests and don't use the compass or map."
    Since they didn't give written directions...

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "you can enter every interior."
    WTF again? Which interior can't you enter?

    [Pete] "There isn't a magazine on the planet that hasn't gotten information if they've asked for it."
    Which is the lie?

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "Resurrected NPCs are not themselves. They're basically mindless automata who will follow you around and fight for you."
    Which is completly true. He is talking about spell-reanimated NPCs.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is an extremely rich, complex game with a tremendous amount of depth, compelling quest lines, interesting NPC characters, a huge variety of player character types and intricate character progression set in a huge, varied game world. Combat, magic, and AI have all been dramatically improved to enhance gameplay while still providing a balance between player skill and character skill, because after all, Oblivion is a role playing game. Yes, some things that were present in Morrowind are not in Oblivion -- but a lot more has been added than removed, and the goal has always been to make a game that is both more accessible to first-time RPG players, and is also challenging and rewarding for more experienced players."
    Personal opinion.

    [Pete] "We will continue to support the mod community as best we can and let them do the great things they do, just as we did with Morrowind."
    TESCS wiki, Construction Set released before the game, very user-friendly CS.

    [Sentinel] "The sad fact is that many development studios can't afford to bankroll their own game development. So they rely on publishers to give them the money to create these games. The problem with this is that the publisher then feels they should have input into the game since they are spending the money. Hence Atari and EA have such a big influence on a game they publish.

    Just glad here at Bethesda we are our own publisher and developer and have free reign to make what we want."
    What he's saying is that Bethesda publishes their own games. Which is completly true.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "We're NOT going to slap in features that don't work well just to say we have them."
    Which is fake? How?

    [Pete] "Holidays this year"
    Changed their fucking minds. :roll:

    [Pete] "You know if you have a 360 it will look as good as it can possibly look. If you have the latest, greatest PC with the best video card, etc., it will probably look the same as the Xbox 360 version."
    Which is true.

    [MrSmileyFaceDude] "The compass, the quest marker and compass icons, are NOT the hand-holding, dumbing down babysitter some folks paint them out to be."
    Opinion.

    [Hayt] "We're around on a daily basis, and we're reading. When we're ready to comment on things, you'll all know."
    Which, again, is true.
    ^ Top  
  5. Darkflame Scholar

    Darkflame
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    209
    Didn't lie?

    Liar! No NPC's in the game can steal something and take off on a horse.

    Oh sure... so subtle that it the effect isn't even in the game... LIAR!

    You like to lie don't you? On everyone's game, broken weapons remain in inventory until repaired.

    Lies, Lies, Lies. If you bribe, the NPC automatically accepts it EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    The game IS auto-levelled exactly to your level. That's exactly why players can beat everything. Were these guys working on a different game? No?... LIARS!


    HaHaHaHaHa, good one pinnochio.

    if... you pay $2.50 for that interior...

    Kinda hard to lock your door when it hasn't been implemented into the game, isn't it... but you are telling us that it has... LIAR!!!

    So that's why everysingle time I walk by a table, its contents go flying off to all corners of the room? That's why imperial archers hunting deer eventually get into fights and kill eachother? Or how about the fact that, no matter what city, town, village or hamlet I go to, there is always some NPC there to say "so I saw a mudcrab recently".

    You're either not up to date on "latest, greatest PC's"... or you are lying because you want to sell more XBoxes... hmm, I pick the latter. LIAR! MY COMPUTER SHOWS OBLIVION BETTER THAN AN XBOX, AND I BOUGHT IT A YEAR AGO.

    Could this one be true? Please tell me how showing the player the exact location of quest-related NPCs on the other end of the map isn't handholding? Please tell me how showing all dungeouns on the compass before they are even in eyesight of the player isn't a form of dumbed-down babysitting. LIAR!

    How can you honestly say these guys didn't lie?
    ^ Top  
  6. Krokar Scholar

    Krokar
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    119
    Yay a collection of Bethesdas bullshit. Its fun to read it to be honest. Maybe someone should post that on ESF just to see the reaction from Summer and co.
    ^ Top  
  7. Micmu Magister

    Micmu
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,163
    Location:
    ALIEN BASE-3
    They lied like fucking bitches.

    MRFD's spin-doctoring was kinda amusing though.
    ^ Top  
  8. Nog Robbin Scholar

    Nog Robbin
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    UK
    Hmmm. I see a lot of "changed their mind", "opinion" and "enthusiasm" etc. in your vindications there Lumpy. Now I'm not suggesting that they deliberately lied, but some of those "exagerations" are near as damn it to lies. Take MSFD's fight description - pretty much reads like something out of a novel. What do you actually get? Random and rampant slashing from the protagonists, normally with other NPC's getting involved and ending up with a number of dead (or unconscious in the case of quest relevant!) characters. There is none of the strategic circling, I don't ever recall seeing a fight where NPC's watch.

    Unfortunately, perhaps due to the amount of quotes MSFD produced, it would appear he should win the Pinocchio award this time round.
    ^ Top  
  9. OverrideB1 Scholar

    OverrideB1
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    443
    Location:
    The other side of the mirror
    I don't think it's a case of bare-faced lying per ce, more a case of "we're planning to implement all these cool features" and then sort of neglecting to say "oops, you know that cool thing we told you about? Well, it's not going to happen now."

    But that's become typical of games companies -- Bethesda themselves aren't the only ones guilty of this. "Emphasise the positive, spin the negative".

    I do have to wonder if the Toddler and co were playing the same game that was actually shipped. Their version of Oblivion sounds way cooler than the retail version. perhaps we should campaign to get their version released?

    That being said, there is no doubt that Pete Hines is the biggest liar of the bunch since he's a professional liar by trade.

    Howard comes a pretty close second -- although his bullshit is mitigated by his truthfulness in stating "RPGs are, for us, a knight riding around on horseback fighting things". Pity they couldn't exactly get thier vision translated to a game but he was being fairly truthful when he said that Bethesda's vision of a RPG was as a hack 'n' slash with horse-riding.
    ^ Top  
  10. Claw Erudite

    Claw
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,774
    Location:
    The center of my world.
    Project: Eternity
    Yeah, it's kinda like being a Nazi in 1940. You don't even realize you're evil.
    ^ Top  
  11. Darkflame Scholar

    Darkflame
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    209
    Results in an Insta-ban. I guess they'd rather forget they said anything.
    ^ Top  
  12. Greatatlantic Erudite

    Greatatlantic
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    The Heart of It All
    I'd like to think that MSFD was being honest at the time he made the quotes, that a lot of those things were slated to be in the game at the time. But, when push came to shove somebody else decided RAI needed to be toned down (my euphamism for scorched earth) and removed the challenging bits. I mean RPGCodex is to small and unforgiving of a community to try to "trick" into buying a game unless he honestly thought we'd like it.

    @Lumpy, I don't have the time nor patience to go through those and point out each and every incidence where your wrong. Let this suffice, however.

    Radiant AI, thats how. It proved itself almost as obnoxious as immobile NPCs from Morrowind (and more obnoxious when having "Radiant" conversations), and far inferior to good old fashion scripted behavior from the Gothic series. Basically, it didn't work. That didn't stop developers from using it in interview after interview.
    ^ Top  
  13. tetsuo Scholar

    tetsuo
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Deutschland


    haha this fucking rocks im going to post this over at esf , have an account to spare.

    edit. here is the thread http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=562917 let the fun begin.
    ^ Top  
  14. Excrément Arbiter

    Excrément
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,005
    Location:
    Rockville
    when they compare the game with morrowind they don't lie to my mind.
    but when I heard Todd or Pete speaking about the plots, the multiple paths to end a quest...I smile...
    ^ Top  
  15. Micmu Magister

    Micmu
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,163
    Location:
    ALIEN BASE-3
    SIGNATURE MATERIAL
    ^ Top  
  16. Darkflame Scholar

    Darkflame
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    209
    lol
    Are you insulting Oblivion?? We'll have none of that here...

    In the very least, shouldn't a moderator be able to properly speak the language of the board they moderate? If the Devs realized they couldn't add these features, then they should have retracted the above statements, instead of accompanying them with doctored videos to the press.
    ^ Top  
  17. Ladonna Liturgist

    Ladonna
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,715
    ^ Top  
  18. mr nobuddy Educated

    mr nobuddy
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Never-Neverland
    ^ Top  
  19. tetsuo Scholar

    tetsuo
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Deutschland
    yes summer this bitch locked it.
    account was suspended too ;)
    ^ Top  
  20. Nog Robbin Scholar

    Nog Robbin
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    UK
    I didn't even have chance to respond to it. And it was locked why exactly? Page two seems to be missing now...
    ^ Top  
  21. Darkflame Scholar

    Darkflame
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    209
    The Devs did not lie, they told the truth as they knew it. At the time they were making these statements, their dogs collectively started mucking around with the CS and ate game features.
    ^ Top  
  22. ViolentOpposition Liturgist

    ViolentOpposition
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    4,877
    Location:
    in ur base
    We're going to make teh besterest RPG evar! And we're going to tell everyone about it!

    But before we release it, we're going to take out everything that we promised would make it so much bettar than teh last besterest RPG evar (because we couldn't get anything, worth a shit, to work)! But we won't tell anyone! LOL, it's not lying! It's just manipulation!

    /Bethesda
    ^ Top  
  23. denizsi Magister

    denizsi
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    10,003
    Location:
    bosphorus
    Next time you are accused of violating board rules, use the MSFD excuse.

    Rules say that you can't do that.
    ^ Top  
  24. Ladonna Liturgist

    Ladonna
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,715
    Does that bitch ever sleep?

    Try posting these things in Australian time or something.....
    ^ Top  
  25. Texas Red Whiner

    Texas Red
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    7,044
    Makes one wonder why would any sane person monitor random forums 24/7 without being payed.

    Also, why was the thread locked? Can anyone here from the Bethstapo explain? What rule was broken? And why did the topic starter get suspended?
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above links helps us pay the hosting bills)