Which game made you give up on Bioware?

[Sykar]

ME1 is just KotOR in a new setting

ME2>ME1>ME3

I thought ME1 was the best of that group. I never understood all the love for ME2. It's basically just a corridor shooter with a semi-decent story. At least ME1 actually felt like a space opera.

How is the story semi decent? I thought Bioware went full retard especially in regards to the story. And the retconning.

You want space opera, go play Planet's Edge :D

Never heard of it.

 

[Cael]

Never heard of it.

And people tell me it is not obscure...

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/really-obscure-rpgs.119370/page-5
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/really-obscure-rpgs.119370/page-5
Near the bottom.

 

[Jaesun]

How is the story semi decent? I thought Bioware went full retard especially in regards to the story. And the retconning.

You haven't played ME2?

 

[Sykar]

How is the story semi decent? I thought Bioware went full retard especially in regards to the story. And the retconning.

You haven't played ME2?

I played it and regret every second I wasted on it in hopes it might turn somewhat decent and gave up after the Zaheed "loyalty" mission. The story with Jesus Shepard was from start to the point I quit batshit retarded.

 

[Frozen]

Most people here like ME1 over ME2 because of this so you could pretend to play an RPG


But in reality ME1 was not more of an RPG just because it had more points for you to spend.


It was a crappy attempt at TPS with boring shit like Mako that serves no purpose.
Individual stories in ME2 were better even if overarching plot went nowhere. It had far superior production and gameplay was way better. The passing of the story was also way better because other than 4 main quest parts you only do boring Mako "research" quest 90% of the time in ME1.

In short: ME1-bad and boring TPS, ME2 better TPS not pretending to be something more.

 

[Popiel]

Most people here like ME1 over ME2 because of this so you could pretend to play an RPG


But in reality ME1 was not more of an RPG just because it had more points for you to spend.


It was a crappy attempt at TPS with boring shit like Mako that serves no purpose.
Individual stories in ME2 were better even if overarching plot went nowhere. It had far superior production and gameplay was way better. The passing of the story was also way better because other than 4 main quest parts you only do boring Mako "research" quest 90% of the time in ME1.

In short: ME1-bad and boring TPS, ME2 better TPS not pretending to be something more.

This guy gets it.

 

[Sykar]

Most people here like ME1 over ME2 because of this so you could pretend to play an RPG


But in reality ME1 was not more of an RPG just because it had more points for you to spend.


It was a crappy attempt at TPS with boring shit like Mako that serves no purpose.
Individual stories in ME2 were better even if overarching plot went nowhere. It had far superior production and gameplay was way better. The passing of the story was also way better because other than 4 main quest parts you only do boring Mako "research" quest 90% of the time in ME1.

In short: ME1-bad and boring TPS, ME2 better TPS not pretending to be something more.

ME 1 had actual choices like which team mate to sacrifice on Virmire. The choices in ME 2 were all about whether you can finish the suicide mission or not and that was solely predicated on whether you accomplish loyalty missions or not.

ME 2 did not try to be an RPG? Are you joking? If that there the case they would have done away with classes and stuff like in Andromada.

Can't believe fucking ME 2 decline enabling piss for brains retard fanboys would try to shit on ME 1.

 

[Frozen]

Virmire choice is on a same level as keeping or destroying the Collector base at the end of ME2-irrelevant.
If that is a choice ME2 has plenty because most (including Shepard) could die.
What decline? Its the same game only better because its more polished TPS than first.
ME (including 1) was never RPG

 

[Sykar]

Virmire choice is on a same level as keeping or destroying the Collector base at the end of ME2-irrelevant.
If that is a choice ME2 has plenty because most (including Shepard) could die.
What decline? Its the same game only better because its more polished TPS than first.
ME (including 1) was never RPG

Yeah if ME 1 was not an RPG then neither was the likes of Fallout or BG where I can call most choices irrelevant as well. There is no choice in ME 2. Either do the Loyalty missions and succeed with the final mission, or do not do them and fail. That is not a choice dumbfuck.

But please enlighten me why ME 1 is not an RPG while others are. Oh and explain to me exactly what an RPG is. I will love your answer in any case.

 

[Frozen]

Idiot, i said ALL 3 are not RPG
They are third person shooters - first had worst shooting mechanics and lots of boring parts but hey, you could spend lots of useless points into things that don't make you better.
Explaining why they are not is like explaining why Diablo is an arcade game.

 

[fantadomat]

Idiot, i said ALL 3 are not RPG
They are third person shooters - first had worst shooting mechanics and lots of boring parts but hey, you could spend lots of useless points into things that don't make you better.
Explaining why they are not is like explaining why Diablo is an arcade game.

Like it or not ME1/2 are rpgs.

 

[Sykar]

Idiot, i said ALL 3 are not RPG
They are third person shooters - first had worst shooting mechanics and lots of boring parts but hey, you could spend lots of useless points into things that don't make you better.
Explaining why they are not is like explaining why Diablo is an arcade game.

Retard, I was referring to other RPGs, not the Ass Defect games mentally decifient morons like you seem to like so much.

 

[Jarmaro]

ME2, game in which random people are getting mixed into bio-mash as it will allow evil squids to make big metal space zombie that shots lasers from its eyes.
10/10 Game of The Year.

Spoiler

The sad part is that it actually happened

 

[Theldaran]

Well, you know, there are a lot of Bioware fans out there, and not all are that... quirky. Bioware has been respected by a lot of people for a long time. I don't mean to say these people were always right, but I wouldn't put the Bioware decline so early in their timeline. It's more like Microsoft -you can argue they deliver shit, and indeed from time to time they release major turds, but anyway, there's a market for them. Mass Effect is still very respected, but I don't think those fans could recommend DA2 with a straight face. They already called Andromeda's bluff.

It surprises me that people here are shitting on NWN, because yes, if you take the original content it was pretty bad. But this game let you play in online servers everywhere, I played in one of them and it wasn't a half bad experience. It was Nordock. Thus you wouldn't have to suffer the Bioware shit, and instead rely on modders, that's where the goodness is.

It was a decent replacement for a 3rd Edition D&D campaign, though there wasn't much of a story. A hack-n-slash campaign, if anything.

 

[Gimble]

Based on my playthroughs, ME was always trying to be a shooter and break into that lucrative market (even if promos and the developers claimed otherwise) - cover based mechanics and levels designed with chest high walls almost everywhere conveyed this very clearly. As shooters, the games did get better if you ignored the stories.

DA2 and DA:I on the other hand were huge declines. DA2 was a straight up cash in, probably prompted by EA acquisition to start generating some return on investment.

DA:I on the other hand was an abomination which made me not give a damn about bioware anymore. That game's interface actively fought with the player - so much for 'tactical' combat. If anything, the best way to play the game was to let the ai companions do whatever they wanted and just control the position of the main character and let the game play itself and win all battles for you. Couldn't get past that aspect of the game.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Well, you know, there are a lot of Bioware fans out there, and not all are that... quirky. Bioware has been respected by a lot of people for a long time. I don't mean to say these people were always right, but I wouldn't put the Bioware decline so early in their timeline. It's more like Microsoft -you can argue they deliver shit, and indeed from time to time they release major turds, but anyway, there's a market for them. Mass Effect is still very respected, but I don't think those fans could recommend DA2 with a straight face. They already called Andromeda's bluff.

It surprises me that people here are shitting on NWN, because yes, if you take the original content it was pretty bad. But this game let you play in online servers everywhere, I played in one of them and it wasn't a half bad experience. It was Nordock. Thus you wouldn't have to suffer the Bioware shit, and instead rely on modders, that's where the goodness is.

It was a decent replacement for a 3rd Edition D&D campaign, though there wasn't much of a story. A hack-n-slash campaign, if anything.

The hatred for NWN here from some quarters, and particularly many moderators, is fairly well entrenched and quite beyond reason. I got my prosper avatar and fanboy tag for simply trying to argue that the NWN OC was at least a half decent hack'n'slash in comparison to NWN2's hideous camera, god awful combat, embarrassingly spartan and incredibly tiny maps, litany of bugs, because, apparently, the pointless money-sink Crossroads Keep Tower Defence mini-game and the tedious and predictable court case trumps all that other shit.

Hoards of the Underdark, various modules, the on-line multiplayer are what the fans of the series remember fondly, along with the amazing soundtrack, to which treating the OC or the first expansion like mere modules (which they were) is more how they perceive those games. Unfortunately, a lot of people here went straight from BG2 into NWN expecting BG3, because Bioware (the original owners) are indeed disingenuous fucks who were desperate to make bucks before anything else, not much different to EA in that regard, so they got so burnt so bad as to never want to investigate further and any further investigations are permanently scarred by that fake taste. I got my tag and avatar because I hadn't even played BG2 before NWN came out, had no idea it was supposed to be BG3 and simply got bored by a fairly boring campaign, but not so put off as to not want to try other adventures in the setting (unlike the almost unplayable dreck of NWN2's base playability before the campaign is even considered).

 

[Lagole Gon]

^
Now THAT'S a butthurt, if I've ever seen one.

 

[Theldaran]

Neverwinter Nights, the OC is very mediocre but maybe you can play through it. A huge step down from BG if you ask me. The expansions... I tried to play through Undrentide but just... couldn't. The online aspect of NWN, with servers, is where the meat is, as far as I'm concerned. It gives you a drastically different experience, which is OK if you enjoy the ruleset.

And yes, Inquisition combat is super embarrassing.

 

[Tigranes]

Generously, Bioware actually gave us plenty of advance warning.

NWN1 OC was an obvious disappointment, but I think it wasn't really an omen of things to come; as long as they were married to D&D they were still rigorous from a systems perspective, the idea of focusing on modules and editor was a laudable (and successful) one, and while the OC plot already featured a romance interest with brain damage and a plot twist they would reuse 800 times, those weren't really the reasons the plot/design was terrible.

KOTOR1 is the real sign, I think. Although it is a pretty fun game in itself, the moment they leave D&D you see that they cannot, or are not interested in, creating really robust gameplay systems that support tactical variation, challenge, or replayability; you literally sit there and watch your characters pew-pew because the camera is built to forbid tactical control, the game is so easy that the autopilot is the most efficient anyway, and there aren't really many variations of builds. You also start to see every other aspect of the design gear itself towards the nuBio formula: first we give you a blowjob about how CHOSEN you are, then once you're hard, we show you a rotating cast of brain-damaged retards, of which you pick several to have awkward sex with, and then we throw in a nice episode of whatever reels that weren't good enough for daytime drama in Mexico. Whereas romance in BG2, for example, was already expanded due to fan interest, but was inserted into a wider game system that was developed for real gameplay, there is already a shift starting from KOTOR1.

It mostly goes downhill from there, with the exception of DA:O, which would be the only Bio game I played since K1.

Of course, plenty of Codexers kept wasting their money and/or time on horror shows like DA2 & 3, and one day a panel of inquisitors will determine whether they were just hopeful fools or Fallout 4 - loving philistines.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I tried to play through Undrentide but just... couldn't.

You know how some people think "if you can't enjoy XYZ game then there's something wrong with your RPG credentials", normally, round here, that will be Fallout or PS:T or Gothic or whatever, well, one of mine is Hoards of the Underdark. I am honestly at a complete loss as to why someone who loves RPGs can't enjoy that game. As far as I can tell it has pretty much everything a good RPG needs, and then some. It's just a very good dungeon crawler, great loot, great encounters, great map design, interesting companions and NPCs, varied quests, lots of surprises, lots of general variety, excellent pacing, gorgeous music. If the only complaints are the weird era-specific graphical style and the mild irritation of somewhat unpredictable companion actions, then you might as well start crossing off tuns of older and newer games which aren't perfect for either graphics or companion control. So yeah, when people write off HotU it just makes me think WTF? I honestly don't get it, our genre doesn't get that much better than that game aside from personal 10/10s. But yeah, Undrentide is reknown to be a tad boring.

 

[Theldaran]

If I'm not badly mistaken, Hordes lets you play through Undermountain, and I've never been a fan of such huge dungeons. Maybe Tomb of Horrors for the Gygax touch and it's enough. I'm curious about what would be the reception for a Tomb of Horrors dungeon crawler in our days, with games like Grimrock and Vaporum. But, you know, even D&D has moved on from all that.

 

[Lagole Gon]

KotOR is the antichrist of cRPGs. Doesn't look that bad at the first glance, but in shadows it sets the nuBioware formula of decline. Cinematic approach, full(-ish) voice-acting, disregard for combat mechanics.

 

[fantadomat]

I tried to play through Undrentide but just... couldn't.

You know how some people think "if you can't enjoy XYZ game then there's something wrong with your RPG credentials", normally, round here, that will be Fallout or PS:T or Gothic or whatever, well, one of mine is Hoards of the Underdark. I am honestly at a complete loss as to why someone who loves RPGs can't enjoy that game. As far as I can tell it has pretty much everything a good RPG needs, and then some. It's just a very good dungeon crawler, great loot, great encounters, great map design, interesting companions and NPCs, varied quests, lots of surprises, lots of general variety, excellent pacing, gorgeous music. If the only complaints are the weird era-specific graphical style and the mild irritation of somewhat unpredictable companion actions, then you might as well start crossing off tuns of older and newer games which aren't perfect for either graphics or companion control. So yeah, when people write off HotU it just makes me think WTF? I honestly don't get it, our genre doesn't get that much better than that game aside from personal 10/10s. But yeah, Undrentide is reknown to be a tad boring.

HotU is pretty good mate,i am with you here .

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

KotOR is the antichrist of cRPGs. Doesn't look that bad at the first glance, but in shadows he sets the nuBioware formula of decline. Cinematic approach, full(-ish) voice-acting, disregard for combat mechanics.

I couldn't get off the first planet when I tried. It bored my socks off in every aspect.

Of the Bioware games I've played in order of when I played them:

Neverwinter Nights OC (2002) : Fairly boring, completed it though and not 'put off' completely.
Shadows of the Undrentide (whenever it came out): Fairly boring, completed it though and not 'put off' completely.
Hoards of the Underdark (whenever it came out): Loved it.
Dragon Age Origins (2010) : Fairly boring, completed it though and not 'put off' completely.
Dragon Age Origins: Awakenings (when it came out): Quite enjoyed this one, nearly loved it.
Dragon Age 2 (2012): Loathed it, completed the last chapter in fast forward for morbid curiosity of a train wreck.
Knight of the Old Republic (a few years ago): Bored me to death, quit after a few hours.
Baldur's Gate 2 (a couple of years back): Quite liked it but got burned out after walking round and under and through the same city for a bajillion hours, got fed up of my posse keep wandering off whenever they felt like it. Put it down with the intention to come back refreshed another day but never did, still want to give it another go sometime.
Neverwinter Nights Diamond Modules (when gog gave it away for free): Loved it, but not without criticism in places.
Baldur's Gate 1 (the past few weeks): Fairly boring, completed it though and not 'put off' completely.
Tales of the Sword Coast (starting very soon): Started with a known bug, those daft cunts shipped the USA/Canada version to the UK so it wont play without a patch, to which the patch assumes you're using the 6 disc version and not the more common complete sets which have one disc per game. I spent a few hours trying to get it to work yesterday and it looks like I've found a workaround, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

 

[Magitex]

I tried to play through Undrentide but just... couldn't.

You know how some people think "if you can't enjoy XYZ game then there's something wrong with your RPG credentials", normally, round here, that will be Fallout or PS:T or Gothic or whatever, well, one of mine is Hoards of the Underdark. I am honestly at a complete loss as to why someone who loves RPGs can't enjoy that game. As far as I can tell it has pretty much everything a good RPG needs, and then some. It's just a very good dungeon crawler, great loot, great encounters, great map design, interesting companions and NPCs, varied quests, lots of surprises, lots of general variety, excellent pacing, gorgeous music. If the only complaints are the weird era-specific graphical style and the mild irritation of somewhat unpredictable companion actions, then you might as well start crossing off tuns of older and newer games which aren't perfect for either graphics or companion control. So yeah, when people write off HotU it just makes me think WTF? I honestly don't get it, our genre doesn't get that much better than that game aside from personal 10/10s. But yeah, Undrentide is reknown to be a tad boring.

HotU starts off a little rough and uneven in terms of quality, so it doesn't surprise me when people don't give HotU a fair shake (especially if one wants to actually get through Undrentide - I couldn't, I skipped straight to HotU after losing interest with it), but as you said it is very close to top of the RPG pile.
The OC for me was pretty magical, being one of the first major D&D games playable in co-op and although I petered out on the campaign itself, I consider NWN a great RPG (even just the OC), thanks to the moddability and community content. It's sad we don't really have a replacement for this game yet - even NWN2 failed to replace it, although it has its own merits.