Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

When will the main character in RPGs say something brilliant

Nog Robbin

Scholar
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
392
Location
UK
I guess the biggest reason for the PC to be mostly quiet is that it allows the player some say (or thought) into what they're character is actually saying. To give enough options to the player for them to be able to choose the one that suits the character they are playing, and for those then to have appropriate consequences within the dialog and the game would mean some large... very large dialog trees.
Hence NPC's who are entirely the game designers creations can have dialog that suits them.

I don't believe a free form text system is viable yet either - not without some serious misunderstandings between player intent and the way the NPC interprets it. I still feel (for player dialog) that an action/wiki system combined with emotion/intent would produce the most versatile system from a player point of view. Sure - you may not get to see *exactly* what your character says, but from the options you select when creating his part of the conversation you'd have a good idea in your mind of what was said.
 

Diogo Ribeiro

Erudite
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
5,706
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
I always thought what mainly held back a better PC character development, other than skilled writing, was that for the most part CRPGs have narrowed down the main character's path into that of the inquisitive hound who basically only engages in dialogue to ask for directions/money/quest reward/foozle's motivations. That, and because character exposition works best when its predetermined and resumed to one or two single paths.

I get that feeling when I'm playing most CRPGs. The only two games I can brightly recall that this wasn't the case - at least not all the time - were Planescape: Torment and Deus Ex. Deus Ex had more in common with adventure games in its dialogue structure than with RPGs. There was a much finer tuned character exposition there than what you'd get in CRPGs. In part this worked because we're only playing one character whose attitude and development are largely predetermined. But we can't expect this to work in a CRPG where we are relatively free to play our own part rather than a premade one. It may work but not without some rough edges: after all, accomodating all the possible dialogue venues with well written exposition for each is a heck of a job.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
The ending of Planescape Torment.
The "What can change the nature of a man" dialogue with TTO, particularily. I found that to be the perfect conclusion to the game.
 

Goliath

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
17,830
What's the point of putting some deep philosophical statements in a game that should appeal to 14 year olds who listen to 50 Cent and have Jessica Simpson posters on their walls?

Maybe one of the reasons why Sir Tech is out of business is that they thought putting Kafka references into video games is a good idea..

214 European Bourgeois points for everyone who has noticed the one right at the beginning of Wizardry 8..
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
There's also the school of thought that putting detailed conversation into the main character's mouth is immersion-breaking - it pre-determines the character and may actually violate the player's own conception of that character.

And yes, Copx, I thought that reference was pretty funny. At first I figured it might be a translation glitch, but then I remembered Sir-Tech was Canadian. :lol:
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
You mean Gregor, don't you? Isn't that a pretty common reference? I mean, I guess most at the Codex read that story, or know about it. Though I, once more, have to say that Kafka is best read in German. Namely because his German wasn't flawless, but very precise without being lifeless. Though it was also cumbersome. One of his short stories went over two pages... and consisted of two sentences.

Focus: I endorse large, very large dialogue trees, so if someone where to give the main character of a game many, many dialogue options, that would solve the concern of the OP in my book.
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
I actually find Kafka very approachable in German. He's a great writer for non-native speakers to read because his grammar is generally so simple, yet still effective and even artful.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
In PC RPGs (not sure why consoles do this), the protagonist is often designed by the player to have a particular personality in mind. By keeping him or her relatively silent its a lot easier for the player to feel like their little digital avatar really is Horace McNara, pit fighter and bastard child of the baron.

With that out of the way, "Aren't you glad that thing didn't have tentacles?".
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom