Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

When talking rpgs: the word "lore" is a good moron indicator

When talking rpgs: the word "lore" is a good moron indicator

  • yes

    Votes: 36 23.2%
  • no

    Votes: 41 26.5%
  • OP is a fucking faggot who doesn't know shit about RPGs

    Votes: 19 12.3%
  • Wizardry fucking sucks ugh ban this fuck and his tired turn-based shtick

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • I think the OP is a faggot but I agree w/ this

    Votes: 8 5.2%
  • I think the OP is a faggot but he is right the codex has gone to fucking shit

    Votes: 4 2.6%
  • Fuck any rpg that isn't turn-based

    Votes: 9 5.8%
  • i think the OP knows about RPGs, at least more than the majority of posters. Ban him anyway.

    Votes: 6 3.9%
  • Kingcomrade

    Votes: 24 15.5%
  • Puzzles in rpg's are just something taken from Adventure Games and are usually filler

    Votes: 5 3.2%

  • Total voters
    155

NeoKino

RPGCodex Ninja
Patron
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
1,864,638
Location
Somewhere
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Storyfags are the cancer that is ruining the genre, All they do is ignore bad gamplay elements and shit rpg systems by say "ohh this game got good story and lore, lets ignore it's shitty combat system lack of depth and C&C and overall polish uyuuuk GOTY".
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Lore is essentially the substance of a setting, and setting - alone or in tandem with some other elements - is what usually makes or breaks a game, especially a cRPG.
Without Planescape to butrress it PS:T would be a faintly weeaboo smelling game about an emo dude trying to die. It's how it's story and themes are rooted in the setting that gives it enough weight and texture, apparently, to change the nature of many a man enough to want to bear another man's (MCA's) children.

Man, I'm a big fucking storyfag and yet the word lore and people who use lore unironically are fucks, who probably got them curly pubey beards or some shit what maybe got a crush on they mom or some shit amirite bazinga yolo #KONY2012

but I am serious, the word lore is to autism what secret bathroom knocks are to like gay dudes and gloryhole blowies and jizz moustaches or some shit
In this case it and cRPGs are a match made in heavan.
:M
 

Raziel

Educated
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
80
Storyfags are the cancer that is ruining the genre, All they do is ignore bad gamplay elements and shit rpg systems by say "ohh this game got good story and lore, lets ignore it's shitty combat system lack of depth and C&C and overall polish uyuuuk GOTY".
Would love to hear what games in the genre you consider having good gameplay elements(i'm assuming you're referring to combat only) and rpg systems.

storyfaggotry is the focal point of rpgs. the only good tactical combat you can find that hinges on rpg genre is found in blobbers. and any rpg system that is worth a damn will by definition give the player enough freedom to make any challenge trivial. complexity kills balance, this doesn't bother me at all but it does mean rpgs with developed systems will make it easier for the player to break the game.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
i find myself wanting to vomit whenever someone uses the word lore when talking about RPGs and it has become a good indicator that the person is probably some form of Besthestard. did this originate from WoW or from Oblivion? examples of this usage include stuff like:

From WOW or Oblivion? You my child is to young. Lore was well talked about daggerfall, morrowing and for that manner Baldurs gate, in which the lore/fluff was often in books.
Oblivion in particular is only notable for how it violated its own lore (that, bloom and prosperland faces, but the latter two are a topic of its own).
 

NeoKino

RPGCodex Ninja
Patron
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
1,864,638
Location
Somewhere
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Storyfags are the cancer that is ruining the genre, All they do is ignore bad gamplay elements and shit rpg systems by say "ohh this game got good story and lore, lets ignore it's shitty combat system lack of depth and C&C and overall polish uyuuuk GOTY".
Would love to hear what games in the genre you consider having good gameplay elements(i'm assuming you're referring to combat only) and rpg systems.

storyfaggotry is the focal point of rpgs. the only good tactical combat you can find that hinges on rpg genre is found in blobbers. and any rpg system that is worth a damn will by definition give the player enough freedom to make any challenge trivial. complexity kills balance, this doesn't bother me at all but it does mean rpgs with developed systems will make it easier for the player to break the game.
Divinity Original Sin Series
Arkania Series
Heroes of Might and Magic
Shadowrun
Underrail
Temple Of Elemental Evil
Wizardry Series
I can name a lot more bruh some of these have good stories, but honestly if I wanted story from a video game I might as well read a book.
 

Tom Selleck

Arcane
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
1,206
I'd fuckin' godmode every game if I could to play nothing but the sweet, sweet fuckin' stories that these CRPGs give to me, fuck you John Updike, fuck you guy who writes good who wrote about that fuckin' whale, fuck you all, fuck that dude who wrote about 1984 and then everyone takes a picture of a security camera in a public square that has your name on it or something despite like, thank goodness there's a camera there to prevent people from fuckin' you without your consent but I'm still gonna take a picture anyway because it's fuckin' irony or some shit I bet, fuck that guy.

I wanna bask in the glory that is getting a fairy blade of Gazuul from the Darkmount to tear asunder the Dark rule of Shitalaser the Wicked, inheritor of the Doommantle, in the Black Cathedral of Onai and make sure the city of Moonglisten is forever saved by me, a simple fuckin' peasant boy and my incredible ascension to incomparably rich and powerful superhero.

Who ain't think RPG stories aren't the best? Those fuckers don't know shit.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
California
HermanMelville_NewBioImage.jpg
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
I'd fuckin' godmode every game if I could to play nothing but the sweet, sweet fuckin' stories that these CRPGs give to me, fuck you John Updike, fuck you guy who writes good who wrote about that fuckin' whale, fuck you all, fuck that dude who wrote about 1984 and then everyone takes a picture of a security camera in a public square that has your name on it or something despite like, thank goodness there's a camera there to prevent people from fuckin' you without your consent but I'm still gonna take a picture anyway because it's fuckin' irony or some shit I bet, fuck that guy.

I wanna bask in the glory that is getting a fairy blade of Gazuul from the Darkmount to tear asunder the Dark rule of Shitalaser the Wicked, inheritor of the Doommantle, in the Black Cathedral of Onai and make sure the city of Moonglisten is forever saved by me, a simple fuckin' peasant boy and my incredible ascension to incomparably rich and powerful superhero.

Who ain't think RPG stories aren't the best? Those fuckers don't know shit.
It's a rare achievement to write something that's just as dumb when taken at face value as when taken ironically.
 

Raziel

Educated
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
80
Storyfags are the cancer that is ruining the genre, All they do is ignore bad gamplay elements and shit rpg systems by say "ohh this game got good story and lore, lets ignore it's shitty combat system lack of depth and C&C and overall polish uyuuuk GOTY".
Would love to hear what games in the genre you consider having good gameplay elements(i'm assuming you're referring to combat only) and rpg systems.

storyfaggotry is the focal point of rpgs. the only good tactical combat you can find that hinges on rpg genre is found in blobbers. and any rpg system that is worth a damn will by definition give the player enough freedom to make any challenge trivial. complexity kills balance, this doesn't bother me at all but it does mean rpgs with developed systems will make it easier for the player to break the game.
Divinity Original Sin Series
Arkania Series
Heroes of Might and Magic
Shadowrun
Underrail
Temple Of Elemental Evil
Wizardry Series
I can name a lot more bruh some of these have good stories, but honestly if I wanted story from a video game I might as well read a book.
You actually named good examples, did not expect. HOMM, Wizardry, TOEE being the best in order. Aside from TOEE one's hard pressed to call those RPGs. Other games you've named suffer from the things I've mentioned.(even TOEE does without mods) I'd also add JA and xcom, but most of these games stray too far from RP aspects of the genre to be considered true examplars of the genre.

storyfaggotry is the focal point of rpgs

get the fuck out
Ok sorry, which other element of the genre is the driving force then? It's definitely not combat. I like to make the comparison between wargames and early tabletop RPGs in contrast to blobbers and latter RPGs that followed DND and the like. Blobbers are generally the best we get in terms of tactical combat, but there's not enough focus on story, C&C, and character customization that doesn't only focus on combat abilities for it to be a true RPG.
 
Last edited:

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
In practice, lore in moderns games is a part of the setting that is only written, but generally has little to do with the game itself and games often do not follow it through in their gameplay.
 

Archibald

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
Lore is essentially the substance of a setting, and setting - alone or in tandem with some other elements - is what usually makes or breaks a game, especially a cRPG.
Without Planescape to butrress it PS:T would be a faintly weeaboo smelling game about an emo dude trying to die. It's how it's story and themes are rooted in the setting that gives it enough weight and texture, apparently, to change the nature of many a man enough to want to bear another man's (MCA's) children.

From what I understand nobody has any problems with "lore" in PS:T because it is not just meaningless stuff there, but integrated into core gameplay and drives the plot forward. In contrast we have stuff like Mass Effect's Codex which is full of "lore" that nobody gives a fuck about and probably nothing would change if it was removed from the game. Yet we use same "lore" term to describe both of these instances.
 

himmy

Arcane
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
1,150
Location
New Europe
Excuse me, sirs, is it time for the thread where gaming jocks with limited reading comprehension complain about all those pesky letters that stand in the way of their enjoyment of "the real game"? I swear, some people here are no different from the unwashed masses of Call of Duty and FIFA teenagers, but they lack the hand-eye coordination to play real-time games, so they imagine a perfect RPG as being some sort of semi-randomised chess.
 

DosBuster

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
1,861
Location
God's Dumpster
Codex USB, 2014
It's completely subjective. It's not impossible for two people to play the same game, one says it's bad because the gameplay systems were unbalanced, while the other says it's good because of the narrative, those two players just went into that game expecting something different.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Lore is essentially the substance of a setting, and setting - alone or in tandem with some other elements - is what usually makes or breaks a game, especially a cRPG.
Without Planescape to butrress it PS:T would be a faintly weeaboo smelling game about an emo dude trying to die. It's how it's story and themes are rooted in the setting that gives it enough weight and texture, apparently, to change the nature of many a man enough to want to bear another man's (MCA's) children.

From what I understand nobody has any problems with "lore" in PS:T because it is not just meaningless stuff there, but integrated into core gameplay and drives the plot forward. In contrast we have stuff like Mass Effect's Codex which is full of "lore" that nobody gives a fuck about and probably nothing would change if it was removed from the game. Yet we use same "lore" term to describe both of these instances.
So, shit games are shit but good games are good?
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,625
Agree. Lore is not enough, and if it is enough for you then you should read a novel instead of playing a fucking game.
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
4,130
Location
YES!
I am the only one who finds reading books in a game very weird?

I will admit, that despite my lore apathy some games got me interested in the story or lore such as AoD and Underrail. In Underrail in the last area I actually read every computer post by the people in the apartments and went out of my way to find out what the ghost people in one building were about. Same with AoD. Some games just make it interesting even if you don't find it interesting.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,542
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Yeah. It's good when people talk about a game's setting, or the writing. But when they say "lore" I tune out. It's an archaic word, or at least archaic-sounding. They might as well tell me they were cleansed of a malus by their apothecary. Talk English, yo.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,386
Excuse me, sirs, is it time for the thread where gaming jocks with limited reading comprehension complain about all those pesky letters that stand in the way of their enjoyment of "the real game"? I swear, some people here are no different from the unwashed masses of Call of Duty and FIFA teenagers, but they lack the hand-eye coordination to play real-time games, so they imagine a perfect RPG as being some sort of semi-randomised chess.
Playing a CRPG for the story is like visiting Scotland for the cuisine, and I'm at a loss as to why anyone would want to do either.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
17,046
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Didn't even know this was a thing. I always thought lore was a good thing, anything to expand the world you will spend 50 hours + in.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Agree. Lore is not enough, and if it is enough for you then you should read a novel instead of playing a fucking game.
I am the only one who finds reading books in a game very weird?

I will admit, that despite my lore apathy some games got me interested in the story or lore such as AoD and Underrail. In Underrail in the last area I actually read every computer post by the people in the apartments and went out of my way to find out what the ghost people in one building were about. Same with AoD. Some games just make it interesting even if you don't find it interesting.
  1. Lore isn't just in-game books. It's the entire body of facts about given setting. Game doesn't need books or even dialogue to have lore.
  2. In-game books as well as all the other forms of lore are only interesting when they are used properly and are only used properly when they are somehow relevant to the rest of the game. It isn't limited to lore - all aspects of a game must work together for it to be good and for them to be meaningful additions. Good lore implies more cohesive gameworld. More cohesive gameworld means more ways for the player to reason about whatever happens in the game and both plan their own actions and make sense of the game to know which actions they want to undertake. Saying that if someone wants to read they should pick up a novel instead of playing a game misses the point as hilariously as saying that if someone wants to look at stuff they should go to an art gallery instead of playing a game.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,625
Lore isn't just in-game books. It's the entire body of facts about given setting. Game doesn't need books or even dialogue to have lore.

I didn't mean to imply lore = books, but rather the fact that a cRPG is a videogame. Good lore is awesome and all, but if it is the first thing that comes to mind when trying to talk about how a game is so cool, I might as well read a book that will most likely have much better and better constructed lore.

Good lore is accessory to an RPG, if the game sucks then no lore will save it. Planescape: Torment not only had awesome lore, it was an incredible game from a roleplaying point of view. Fallout 4's lore draws mostly from the original games, but the game sucks so much anyone defending it because "it has good lore" is a moron plain and simple.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom