When talking rpgs: the word "lore" is a good moron indicator

[aweigh]

i find myself wanting to vomit whenever someone uses the word lore when talking about RPGs and it has become a good indicator that the person is probably some form of Besthestard. did this originate from WoW or from Oblivion? examples of this usage include stuff like:

- "i didn't mind the rtwp combat because that area has good lore"

- "the c&c and lore is above average in this game"

- "you have to experience the full lore by finding all of the lore books"

etc, etc.

 

[Excidium II]

ok

 

[ERYFKRAD]

DraQ knows.

 

[Ellef]

When making polls: making the votes private is a good moron indicator

Agree or disagree

 

[nikolokolus]

Kingcomrade

 

[an Administrator]

Depends on the lore.

 

[Rahdulan]

In my mind STORY = PLOT + LORE + CHARACTERS. So I don't know.

 

[Shin]

i get what you mean but like rahdulan pointed out above me, it is a legitimate part of a RPG, just like immershiun which is another one of those hated buzzwords. Nothing wrong with good lore (or worldbuilding as I prefer to call it) or immersion per se, but I guess it's a good moron indicator either way because of how it's often used.

 

[Tom Selleck]

Man, I'm a big fucking storyfag and yet the word lore and people who use lore unironically are fucks, who probably got them curly pubey beards or some shit what maybe got a crush on they mom or some shit amirite bazinga yolo #KONY2012

but I am serious, the word lore is to autism what secret bathroom knocks are to like gay dudes and gloryhole blowies and jizz moustaches or some shit

 

[Got bored and left]

Fluff is a much better word for that, too, with its opposition to crunch and all that. But noooo, let's rape this poor, innocent l-word into meaninglessness instead. Fucking nerds, ruining everything.

 

[groke]

Lore is important for creating immersive experiences and avoiding ludonarrative dissonance.

 

[Sykar]

Lore is to some degree important if you want to create a cohesive world.

 

[Kahr]

- "the c&c and lore is above average in this game"

The other two sentences are of course moronic, but please don't shit on c&c.

 

[Trip]

I hear "lore" and all I can think of is "Boringly delivered backstory". Is that what it's supposed to mean? NPCs blathering unbidden, "books" with a couple of summaries in them, journal entries about who built what hut and how the roof is representative of the late-peasant art revival.

To me, that sort of thing should either be presented as ongoing conflict (Not "These there are the mud-children, born of no mother, feeding on the roots of the black tree of Is'fsguck", but "The woman slings a stone at the yellow-eyed girl. The stone rolls on the ground, blood-spattered. "Filth! Devil-spawn! @!#?!@!" The girl reels towards you, arms outspread, trying to regain balance.) and/or consequences of one, or as snippets, the less context, the stranger, the more memorable, the better. I don't want to read a poorly-read game developer's idea of epic fantasy timelines and soapy family sagas; I want for stuff to happen vividly in my mind as I catch glimpses of the game-world.
(But of course, if I need a specific piece of "lore" for gameplay purposes, clarity trumps all else.)

 

[kris]

i find myself wanting to vomit whenever someone uses the word lore when talking about RPGs and it has become a good indicator that the person is probably some form of Besthestard. did this originate from WoW or from Oblivion? examples of this usage include stuff like:

From WOW or Oblivion? You my child is to young. Lore was well talked about daggerfall, morrowing and for that manner Baldurs gate, in which the lore/fluff was often in books.

While I dont care much about it myself i never considered anyone talking about it "a moron". have this day come when people who like to read and immerse themselves are considered morons by someone? welcome to the future.

 

[Aothan]

I don't really follow the reasoning, lore is one of the important qualities of good rpgs

 

[Severian Silk]

This thread needs 33% more lore.

 

[Raziel]

Is this another of those 'what is X' debates? Can the OP define what he means by 'lore'?

If worldbuilding is suggested by the OP, then it's very important. PST would never be a masterpiece without its "lore". The Cant, Factions, planetravel and metaphysics in general are all grounded in great worldbuilding and amount to what makes PST great. We all like to suck Mr.Avellone's dick, but the reality is without the brilliant foundation that Zeb Cook built with PS--Chris couldn't show his brilliance. Compare PoE, NWN2: motb, PST in terms of worldbuilding and everything is clear.

Spoonfeeding lore through large blocks of uninterrupted text is usually retarded, but if it's done organically by not assuming the player is dumb such as in PST/DS it can work out nicely.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Suppose someone said:

Pillars of Eternity lore is bland compared to forgotten realms D&D lore which itself is inferior to Gloranthan (King of the Dragon Pass etc) lore.

To me that is not indicative of being a moron, but rather a sign of that individual having a taste

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Lore. Lore never changes.

 

[Darth Roxor]

strongly agreed with op

 

[Max Heap]

i find myself wanting to vomit whenever someone uses the word lore when talking about RPGs and it has become a good indicator that the person is probably some form of Besthestard. did this originate from WoW or from Oblivion? examples of this usage include stuff like:

- "i didn't mind the rtwp combat because that area has good lore"

- "the c&c and lore is above average in this game"

- "you have to experience the full lore by finding all of the lore books"

etc, etc.

Lore or fluff can greatly add to a game.

It only becomes a problem when the "lore" is a lackluster element slapped onto the game world without any form of integration into what you are actually seeing in the game. So e.g. in the form of books lying around filled with nothing more than fan fiction that doesn't affect anything.

What do I care about these things if I can't see any of that stuff in the game?
Why do I even read it? So I can pretend there is more to all of this when there isn't? It's useless and retarded, nothing more.

Lore should give an indication of things that can be found within the game world or are represented somehow.
Much like Thief did it with its notes lying around, giving you hints on where to find nice loot.
This was done well. This draws you in and gives you a motivation to read any piece of paper you find.

Even in the case of the hammerite books - again going with thief - at least there is a reason why these writings exist within the world. For example as religious texts, for teaching, etc. You see it and you go "Oh yeah... this is what these guys are about. This is why they are so mad at me" - what I read is represented in the world somehow.

Most books in RPGs read more like a documentation or a report on what happened when and who was involved. Of course it makes sense up to a certain point, to have those lying around but... it seems so unmotivated. If I walk into someones apartment today I don't expect the history of rome lying around unless that guy is specifically interested in that topic.

It's funny because looking at it in that context, the book that made the most sense lying around in Morrowind was the Argonian Maid one. Why? Because it was written by some creepy pervert. It establishes that character as a hack writer and actually adds to what you can experience in the world. It is a well integrated piece of shitty writing so to say.

In any other case: Forget about it. It's timesink. Nothing more.

 

[pippin]

Lore is what people who can't justify their jobs in the industry do.
Even in Morrowind, the game's not fun because of the lore, it's because it's just a good game. You can ignore the books and engage just in the gameplay and you'll have arguably the exact same experience.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Fluff is a much better word for that, too, with its opposition to crunch and all that. But noooo, let's rape this poor, innocent l-word into meaninglessness instead. Fucking nerds, ruining everything.

Fluff is a much better word, no doubt about that.

 

[Harold]

You want a good lore, but you need the bad gameplay