What old (pre-1995) cRPGs stand the test of time?

[pippin]

"visual novel RPG"?

Just like PST.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

First time I ever heard of Twilight 2000. That skills screen is hot.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

"visual novel RPG"?

I don't know, man. :D I don't think I've even played a visual novel yet. The closest I guess I've gotten are the "Choose Your Own Adventure"-style novel RPGs on Android. Life of a Wizard, etc. Pretty neat stuff, IMO, as they have RPG elements like inventory, character skills and stats, choices to make, etc.

But the point is that it's possible to have fun with all types of RPGs. Broaden your horizons, try new things! You might find something you like.

 

[Blaine]

Lady Error Jason Liang

Care to elaborate?

This is why I've always been against lazy-ass downvote buttons on forums. If you disagree, explain yourself instead of doing a drive-by, you useless faggots.

Fuck you, that's why.

It was mainly the part that Ultima 7 and Betrayal at Krondor aged better than any other cRPG of their age. There are many others that aged far better, especially considering the primitive 3D of BaK which you mentioned. Even among 3D cRPG's, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 aged way better than that.

I disagree.

Jason Liang

Try Ultima VII Exult. It worked flawlessly for me, no choppiness or other nonsense.

 

[Jason Liang]

I tried playing Ultima VII a couple of years ago and it was barely working on my laptop. Exult didn't really help; the scrolling was choppy and that UI is primitive. It's really the exact opposite of what the original poster is asking for.

At least Ultima V has the Lazarus remake.

Lady Error Jason Liang

Care to elaborate?

This is why I've always been against lazy-ass downvote buttons on forums. If you disagree, explain yourself instead of doing a drive-by, you useless faggots.

Fuck you, that's why.

It was mainly the part that Ultima 7 and Betrayal at Krondor aged better than any other cRPG of their age. There are many others that aged far better, especially considering the primitive 3D of BaK which you mentioned. Even among 3D cRPG's, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 aged way better than that.

I disagree.

Jason Liang

Try Ultima VII Exult. It worked flawlessly for me, no choppiness or other nonsense.

 

[Fowyr]

First time I ever heard of Twilight 2000. That skills screen is hot.

Most of these skills are useless in the game. Just like in Megatraveller. You could use these games to generate characters for your PnP session.

I liked game a lot, it's like Jagged Alliance 0.5 crossed with M1 Abrams. Albeit I rarely used latter mode.

 

[Monk]

The content has been generally the same, which might explain the focus on graphics, user interface, etc. If we consider the former, the question won't matter. If it's the latter, then probably no game will.

 

[Whisper]

Of course if you consider all the very old (pre 1980) CRPGs, of fucking course most will be bad and will have aged badly. 90% of everything is crud.

But the games that were great in 1985-1995 are still great today IMO. And I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for the 1975-1984 CRPGs, none of which I personally played back then.

But I played many of the CRPGs released from 1985 to 1995 - and replayed many of them -, and generally they do stand the test of time IMO.
.

Crystal dragon, add this game to list.

 

[I ASK INANE QUESTIONS]

Hi /v/

 

[Whisper]

Fowyr

they changed to mana system. Completely changes the entire blueprint of Wizardry; not necessarily worse... but Wizardry is primarily about resource management and being able to rest anywhere combined with extremely generous shared mana pool(s) made for decidedly less strategic usage of spells.

Generous mana pools? Your starting mage could only cast spells 2 times per combat, each doing 2-7 dmg.

 

[aweigh]

Whisper

exactly. Thanks for proving my point... that is very generous for Wizardry standards. The difference is that in classic Wizardry those theoretical "two spells" each were equivalent to two fights won.

You really, REALLY need to play Wizardry 5. It's the best one in the series. Or at least Wizardry 6 which is the first one designed by the guy who made 7.

- Wiz 1-5 were made by 1 studio, then 6-7 were made by another one.

- Wiz 8 was made by yet another completely new studio.

This is why there is so much disagreement on which Wizardry title is "better". IMO, 5 and 6 are the best ones:

- 5 because it is the pinnacle of "classic Wizardry".

- 6 because it is the perfect balance of classic Wizardry, combined with the "new stuff" (such as regenerating mana, for example), implemented by the new designers. Once you play 5 and 6 you will realize just how completely non-Wizardry the titles became... 7 and 8 are Wizardry games in name only.

 

[Jacob]

That said, beautiful graphics are great, too. But like the famous saying goes: "A man should be able to play a story RPG, a gameplay RPG, a turn-based RPG, an action RPG, a grid-based blobber RPG, an RPG from the '80s, an RPG from the '90s, a modern RPG, a visual novel RPG, a JRPG, a graphically impressive for its time RPG..etc." Err, maybe it's just me that says that.

.... I thought fluent is just another guy who's too cheerful and upbeat for the Codex but now I know why he got the possibly retarded tag

 

[aweigh]

fluent plays hard-core old-school dungeon crawlers. do you?

I forgive your atrocious animu avatar, but I hope to god that you're not one of those who think shit like Dark Souls and Witcher are RPGs. I only hope your Kodex Kredentials are as good as fluent's, otherwise you have no legs to stand on.

Not only does he espouse the virtues of actual RPGs, which the majority of the Codex forumites do not (they're too busy making posts about RTwP bullshit games); but he actually reviews true old-school turn-based RPGs on the RPGWatch front-page.

Sure, he sometimes shills his YT channel to us, knowing full-well that no one here gives a shit about it; but that doesn't take away from the fact that he plays and reviews true RPGs, and makes that information and knowledge available on the front page of a well-known RPG website (the 'Watch). That automatically gives him 100 times more Kodex Kool Kred than 95% of the Codex forumites have.

The good ole' Codex is too busy nowadays covering KickStarter blog updates about vaporware RPGs that aren't turn-based, and in most case, don't even classify as RPGs!

Therefore... I recommend giving him the benefit of the doubt, as he currently does more for real RPGs getting widespread coverage than the Codex.

 

[Sigourn]

Sometimes I feel people like aweigh are the kind who play games they don't find fun just for the KKK.

Must... finish... this clunky... shit! [Daddy Yankee plays in the background]

 

[cruelio]

Whichever Quest for Glory games came out before 1995. They remain the greatest RPGs of all time.

 

[cruelio]

Except QFG3. We can forget about that one.

 

[Jason Liang]

You really, REALLY need to play Wizardry 5. It's the best one in the series. Or at least Wizardry 6 which is the first one designed by the guy who made 7.

- Wiz 1-5 were made by 1 studio, then 6-7 were made by another one.

- Wiz 8 was made by yet another completely new studio.

This is why there is so much disagreement on which Wizardry title is "better". IMO, 5 and 6 are the best ones:

- 5 because it is the pinnacle of "classic Wizardry".

Actually Bradley was also the designer for Wizardry V.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

.... I thought fluent is just another guy who's too cheerful and upbeat for the Codex but now I know why he got the possibly retarded tag

I was being a bit silly there but the point is that I think it's good to broaden your horizons and try different experiences. Yes I love old-school dungeon-crawlers and hardcore RPGs but I'll also play a JRPG or Diablo-style RPG, etc., if it's decent.

fluent plays hard-core old-school dungeon crawlers. do you?

I forgive your atrocious animu avatar, but I hope to god that you're not one of those who think shit like Dark Souls and Witcher are RPGs. I only hope your Kodex Kredentials are as good as fluent's, otherwise you have no legs to stand on.

Not only does he espouse the virtues of actual RPGs, which the majority of the Codex forumites do not (they're too busy making posts about RTwP bullshit games); but he actually reviews true old-school turn-based RPGs on the RPGWatch front-page.

Sure, he sometimes shills his YT channel to us, knowing full-well that no one here gives a shit about it; but that doesn't take away from the fact that he plays and reviews true RPGs, and makes that information and knowledge available on the front page of a well-known RPG website (the 'Watch). That automatically gives him 100 times more Kodex Kool Kred than 95% of the Codex forumites have.

The good ole' Codex is too busy nowadays covering KickStarter blog updates about vaporware RPGs that aren't turn-based, and in most case, don't even classify as RPGs!

Therefore... I recommend giving him the benefit of the doubt, as he currently does more for real RPGs getting widespread coverage than the Codex.

Thanks for the kind words! I only share my YouTube channel occasionally here in the event that someone who is really into RPGs finds something of interest there, even if it's just some review of an RPG or gameplay footage of a game they weren't aware of, etc. But I will definitely try not to shill in the future.

 

[aweigh]

Jason Liang

half-wrong. He came in when almost the entirety of the game was almost already done in terms of prototyping. All he did was coding and design around 3 of the floors; however that has not stopped him from lying about the amount of his involvement with the game.

the Wiz-brothers basically gave him the keys to the kingdom when he presented some levels he designed using the old Apple II Wizardry Scenario Creation program since the Wiz-brothers wanted to quit game development (1 of them went to Japan and got married and decided to leave the game business, and the other one became a type of venture capitalist).

I do not dispute that Bradley designed many, many facets/parts of Wiz 5, but he did not "create it". The Wiz-brothers already had all of the design docs for the game ready to go. His involvement in Wiz 5 amounts to coding and designing most of the game's NPCs; however aside from the 3 dungeon floors.

The design all of the rest, plus (obviously) the game mechanics, the spells, and even the idea to implement more puzzles were all already laid out in the game's design docs.

That's why Bradley wasn't able to fuck up W5, he worked off the docs left by the brothers. Now w6 and w7 are 100% Bradley, and that is when he decided he wanted to completely change everything about Wizardry, starting with making it move from fantasy over to sci-fi (which he completely sucked at pulling off; w6 and w7's sci-fi settings/writing is atrocious), and removing every single feature that made Wizardry fun to play one by one, starting by making health and magic management completely meaningless (they regerenate), and among many other things intentionally shifting the focus away from dungeon exploration because...

...in Bradley's own words he dislikes dungeon crawling.

But I vowed in that moment that the next realm would have trees and forests that looked like trees and forests, and cities and sunshine and lakes and stars at night, and no more would searching for stairs down suffice… - D.W. Bradley

I have no problem with Bradley wanting to do a more "open world" game. I have a HUGE, HUGE PROBLEM with him wanting to remove dungeons from Wizardry.

By then the Wiz-brothers were long gone in their new life pursuits and didn't care what Bradley was doing, and since 6 and 7 were best-selling games in their time and received above-average acclaim from the mainstream publications at the time (i.e. from reviewers who were casuals, basically)... the Wiz-brothers never felt any need to "interfere".

In the end, however, Bradley's ego became so massive that he was fired (he says in interviews he quit, but no, he was fired), and that is when he went on to that game that plays very similarly to Wizardry 8 but I forget its name. Came out around 1998 or 1999.

Later, he made Dung Lords.

EDIT: think his pre-Dung Lords game was called Wizards and Warriors.

 

[Jacob]

fluent plays hard-core old-school dungeon crawlers. do you?

I forgive your atrocious animu avatar, but I hope to god that you're not one of those who think shit like Dark Souls and Witcher are RPGs. I only hope your Kodex Kredentials are as good as fluent's, otherwise you have no legs to stand on.

Not only does he espouse the virtues of actual RPGs, which the majority of the Codex forumites do not (they're too busy making posts about RTwP bullshit games); but he actually reviews true old-school turn-based RPGs on the RPGWatch front-page.

Sure, he sometimes shills his YT channel to us, knowing full-well that no one here gives a shit about it; but that doesn't take away from the fact that he plays and reviews true RPGs, and makes that information and knowledge available on the front page of a well-known RPG website (the 'Watch). That automatically gives him 100 times more Kodex Kool Kred than 95% of the Codex forumites have.

The good ole' Codex is too busy nowadays covering KickStarter blog updates about vaporware RPGs that aren't turn-based, and in most case, don't even classify as RPGs!

Therefore... I recommend giving him the benefit of the doubt, as he currently does more for real RPGs getting widespread coverage than the Codex.

okay, okay, jeez.

by the way, my avatar is from a game that is much more of an RPG than yours

 

[pippin]

mine is bigger than yours?

 

[aweigh]

Lucas9

I only play games I find fun. That's why I play almost any type of RPG you can think of. I don't care what system an RPG is on, what year it came out, what kind of graphics it has, how difficult it maybe, etc.

I only care about whether it has good gameplay or not. If it does, and it appeals to me, (I admit that not all "good gameplay" appeals to every single person; such a thing is very subjective), then I play it.

I don't think, in all honesty, there is anyone who truly plays games just to say they did.

You all know how much I love WIZARDRY, but I have never finished Wiz 4 and I never will. It's not fun to play, and even though finishing it would give me the equivalent of an RPG Crown of Kodex Kredit, I still won't finish it.

....because it's not fun to play.

TL;DR: Shut your fucking mouth when grown ups are talking, Lucas.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

EDIT: think his pre-Dung Lords game was called Wizards and Warriors.

Yep, it is. Really cool game, too. Not shilling but I do have some videos showing that game on my channel. Worth a peek because it's pretty interesting. Open-world-ish, some great dungeons, NPCs to talk to, etc,. It's a really unique and oddball RPG that's worth checking out.

 

[Jacob]

I was being a bit silly there but the point is that I think it's good to broaden your horizons and try different experiences. Yes I love old-school dungeon-crawlers and hardcore RPGs but I'll also play a JRPG or Diablo-style RPG, etc., if it's decent.

I agree. I don't care for specific sub-genres, I play what I want to play at the time.

That joke's still cringey though.

I don't think, in all honesty, there is anyone who truly plays games just to say they did.

Except maybe Lucas9, but I think he's taking more enjoyment from trying obscure and old games than actually playing it, maybe the equivalent of trying out many fancy clothes but ended up buying a hoodie jacket for the nth time.

 

[aweigh]

I'll never understand that mindset. I love playing, for example, wireframe version of Wiz 1 on PC-98 (that port features higher resolution text! i'm such a graphics whore, haha), but it's because the game holds up.

Hell, not only does it hold up, but it is actually a much better RPG than the majority of shovelware shit RPGs coming out nowadays.

However, if ANYBODY asks me: "aweigh, which version of Wiz 1 should I play?", I would immediately answer: the ps1 port, of course. It features a beautiful orchestral soundtrack, modern graphics, and 1:1 content to the original. It even features the option to change the graphics and enemy sprites back to the original ones.

There is literally no reason to play the original version as the ps1 version replaces it completely. If I truly did what Lucas accuses me of, instead of recommending the ps1 version I would tell people that "only the original wireframe one is the true one!!!", because that would be more "hard core". I'm not interested in being hard-core.

The idea of somebody playing something old without the ability to understand and appreciate its gameplay mechanics, and instead playing it as some sort of... homework assignment? Bleh. Life is short. Play what you enjoy. Don't play games just because "lots of ppl talk about it". Frankly, it's an insult to the game itself!

However, if you play the old game (whatever game it may be), and you don't like it, then great! No problem with that. It seems, though, that in the case Lucas9 he is approaching the matter of playing 80s/90s RPGs as if he was trying to fill out some sort of checklist, in essence doing exactly what he just accused me of... oh, the irony.

EDIT: And, btw, he posts so goddamn much in this thread even after receiving tons of game recommendations, that I think he's actually not playing anything. He's just here for... some reason?