What did you hate about Dragon Age: Origins?

[Serus]

That it probably was the last mainstream CRPG i waited for with any real hopes and actually started playing with some degree of enthusiasm. It was the final nail to the coffin. From that point on, making fun of those game is more actual fun for me than actually playing those turds. It's free entertainment and provides a lot more enjoyment. I suggest more people should consider doing it. For actual playing I mostly chose indies.

 

[Mark Richard]

I still love the ending. Basically you get to Loghain and you find out he's been fighting for the same cause as you, just with completely different methods. Maybe he took power opportunistically, but he still wanted to protect Ferelden. You beat him in the final battle and he submits to your judgement. Riordan is pragmatic and suggests you make him a Gray Warden, in order to take the hit from the Arch Fiend and die in your place. Loghain is even cool with it because it means he will be remembered as a hero who saved the kingdom and not a usurper. It seemed like a good idea.

But then Alistair loses his shit. He hates Loghain and believes completely in the nobility of the wardens. At that point in the game I totally saw Alistair as my bro. He had stuck by me through all the crap and been a faithful and loyal companion, suffering endless abuse and tanking through all the toughest mobs. I felt like I owed him a debt and respected his opinion. So when he declared, "Being a Gray Warden is an honor, not a punishment! I will not call this man my brother!" I realized, shit, he was right. I was really moved by this. I hadn't looked at it that way before but I realized Alistair was completely correct. The game persuaded me to change my mind. Loghain fucked Alistair hard and put him through a ton of shit. Maybe it wasn't the pragmatic thing to do, but a bro is a bro, so I cut that fucker's head off.

I just thought that was a pretty cool way to end the game, and even though it doesn't really matter in the sequels or the game's official ending, it's been pretty rare for any game to actually get me that involved in the characters and the story enough to give a shit like that. So way to go Bioware. Since then of course they've become pozzed up the ass, and every character sucks harder than the next, but I'll always remember killing Loghain out of loyalty and spite.

That bit was handled well, but the choice of who'll kill the Archdemon is ultimately undermined by Riordan's presence. You have no personal attachment to him, and he's sworn to die in the service of the Grey Wardens. His sudden late appearance coincides with learning about the Archdemon's curse, providing a convenient escape from making the hard choice as quickly as the issue is introduced. Without Riordan the only way to avoid dying is to let a friend deal the final blow, let Loghain do it, or enter a faustian bargain with Morrigan. None of these options are free of negative consequences and would've made the path of self-sacrifice an option worth considering.

 

[kamen22]

I disliked pretty much everything about me

you need some self love, kamen

I was probably thinking about mass effect(which I also disliked) instead of myself on that one haha

 

[theSavant]

Oh, missed the point of the topic... what did I hate on this game?

I hated the level design.

Wanted nice colorful flowers, fresh green meadows, gorgeous trees, high white mountains, epic landscapes (not open world, just a nice scenery to walk through), but instead got dark, bland, brown, boring snake-levels.
DA:I scenery was much more to my liking. If I could play DA:O in DA:I, I would play it again.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Romance crap. Getting Alistair to fuck Morrigan somehow (because dwarf). The BUY DLC guy in the one village.

 

[Lhynn]

Oh come on people, you cannot claim you dont remember dragons age story. Its paint by numbers shit with a pretty good twist.
Big evil comes to the land, the good handsome king and his army of speshul chosen ones is there to stand in their way and heroically repel the threat... But it turns out a noble thinks the king is an immature fuckwit (which to his credit is entirely possible by what we see of him) and betrays him to find a better way.

Then while the noble plays politics to organize the land to defeat the invasion in a more rational and sensible manner, the fuckwits chosen one goes on a merry adventure to gather all the races agaist their common enemy by relying on the power of friendship.

I found it refreshing at the time and still think the game has one of the best intro chapters you can find in any rpg. Both the origin bit and the grey warden trial + the betrayal are really memorable. Then the game proceeds to overstay its welcome by like 60 hours and thats that.

 

[Cross]

I found it refreshing at the time

It's the exact same banal plot they've been using since Neverwinter Nights:

• Join some kind of warrior order (Lady Aribeth's apprenticeship, the Jedi, the Spectres, the Grey Wardens)
• and travel to four locations to gather four plot coupons (it's always four for some reason)
• to stop an ancient and evil precursor race from returning to power (the lizardfolk, the Rakatan Star Forge, the Reapers, the Darkspawn).

I never played Jade Empire, so someone's going to have to tell me whether it departs from this formula.

Then while the noble plays politics to organize the land to defeat the invasion in a more rational and sensible manner

How is annihilating the Grey Wardens, the only group that can stand up to the Darkspawn due to their immunity to the darkspawn taint, a 'rational and sensible' plan? Loghain is more a plot device than a character.

 

[Lhynn]

It's the exact same plot they've been using since Neverwinter Nights:

Nope, in neverwinter nights you are a clueless guy in an adventurer school. The school gets assaulted and a plague is set on neverwinter. You have to find the cure. Its actually very unique when it comes to Biowares library.

Join some kind of warrior order (Lady Aribeth's's apprenticeship, the Jedi, the Spectres, the Grey Wardens)

The difference being that being the apprentice of a charactert isnt being in a warrior order. And that you arent speshul in any way. You are just a capable dude.
And unlike almost every other bioware game, you start as a nobody.

and travel to four locations to gather four plot coupons

This is such a generic thing the same could be said about most games. Any game that has you traveling to different places does exactly this.

to stop the ancient and evil precursor race from returning to power (the lizardfolk, the Rakata's Star Forge, the Reapers, the Darkspawn).

Yeah, ancient evil is only used by bioware. Are you retarded? Im honestly asking, are you drooling while typing? Because you are spewing arguments made by some clueless retards almost 10 years ago.

I never played Jade Empire, so someone's going to have to tell me whether it departs from this formula.

Jade empire also departs from this formula. And has a fairly interesting twist as well.

How is annihilating the Grey Wardens, the only group that can stand up to the Darkspawn due to their immunity to the darkspawn taint, a 'rational and sensible' plan? Loghain is more a plot device than a character.

Because not even the player character knows why the grey wardens are important. Anyone can stand up to a dark spawn. Being immune, while a bit useful, largely doesnt matter. You would need an army of thousands or tens of thousands of grey wardens for it to make a difference.
And Loghain is actually a pretty good character that actually shines even with the little development he gets.

The whole endgame reveal is that the big ancient evil is unkillable because he can reform in any of the darkspawns bodies. And only a grey warden can stop that.
Jesus, i didnt even like the game past the intro, i hate having to defend it, but the internet in its infinite wisdom sends some fucking waste of broadband to be wrong in front of me.

 

[Cross]

Yeah, ancient evil is only used by bioware. Are you retarded? Im honestly asking, are you drooling while typing? Because you are spewing arguments made by some clueless retards almost 10 years ago.

So how many Black Isle or Troika RPGs can you name that focus on some evil ancient race resurfacing? The only one that might vaguely qualify is Bloodlines with its Antediluvians, but that's simply a logical extension of vampires' immortality and even that part of the plot turns out to be misdirection.

It's one thing if your story contains some variation of an archetype or trope. It's another thing if all your stories (post-Baldur's Gate) not only share identical tropes, but even identical plot beats. Why you would defend such creative mediocrity and laziness is beyond me.

This is such a generic thing the same could be said about most games. Any game that has you traveling to different places does exactly this.

I'm talking about the specific Bioware formula where the game starts out linear, then opens up in a hub structure where you can go to four locations in any order, and then becomes linear again.

Because not even the player character knows why the grey wardens are important. Anyone can stand up to a dark spawn. Being immune, while a bit useful, largely doesnt matter. You would need an army of thousands or tens of thousands of grey wardens for it to make a difference.

The whole endgame reveal is that the big ancient evil is unkillable because he can reform in any of the darkspawns bodies. And only a grey warden can stop that.

So what you're saying is that Grey Wardens are not needed for fighting Darkspawn...besides the fact that they're the only ones who can put a permanent end to the Darkspawn Archdemon?

 

[Lhynn]

So how many Black Isle or Troika RPGs can you name that focus on some evil ancient race resurfacing?

What kind of retarded non point is that? here have been plenty of fantasy stories about the subject.

It's one thing if your story contains some variation of an archetype or trope. It's another thing if all your stories (post-Baldur's Gate) not only share identical tropes, but even identical plot beats.

No, its the same fucking thing. Obsidian likes their sentient fortresses, bioware likes their ancient evils. As long as the story is well told, who gives a shit if been done before or not. Or are you one of those retards that actually believes star wars was original in the 70s.

I'm talking about the specific Bioware formula where the game starts out linear, then opens up in a hub structure where you can go to four locations in any order, and then becomes linear again.

And im saying the 3 acts structure is fucking common you dumb shit.

So what you're saying is that Grey Wardens are not important for fighting Darkspawn...besides the fact that they're the only ones who can put a permanent end to the Darkspawn Archdemon?

No cathy, what im saying is that no one knew, therefore their actions were perfectly reasonable.

 

[Erikolaz]

I need a rogue in my party. Two options, good... I wonder if I should go for the flamboyant bisexual attention whore, or the flamboyant bisexual attention whore.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

That bit was handled well, but the choice of who'll kill the Archdemon is ultimately undermined by Riordan's presence.

That's a good point. Riordan really does serve as a safety valve on the plot. I don't think I ever picked him because it always felt too easy.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Doesn't he die anyway while assaulting the bhaalspawn? I read his character sheet on wiki

 

[Mikeal]

One of the bows in IWD 2 had better story than DA:O.

 

[Frozen]

I don't like that there is no mod to match that black batmobile armor in Awakening with a same shield pattern if you chose Vigilance to be one handed sword.
Also his pink-ish looks is derpy.
Origins has problems with lazy repetitive armor design and that you have to mod the shit out if it to look and play descent, but unlike a TES game its doable.

 

[theSavant]

Oh come on people, you cannot claim you dont remember dragons age story. Its paint by numbers shit with a pretty good twist.
Big evil comes to the land, the good handsome king and his army of speshul chosen ones is there to stand in their way and heroically repel the threat... But it turns out a noble thinks the king is an immature fuckwit (which to his credit is entirely possible by what we see of him) and betrays him to find a better way.

Then while the noble plays politics to organize the land to defeat the invasion in a more rational and sensible manner, the fuckwits chosen one goes on a merry adventure to gather all the races agaist their common enemy by relying on the power of friendship.

I found it refreshing at the time and still think the game has one of the best intro chapters you can find in any rpg. Both the origin bit and the grey warden trial + the betrayal are really memorable. Then the game proceeds to overstay its welcome by like 60 hours and thats that.

I just remembered that there were dark fucks and you had to kill them, but couldn't remember why. Now about that "gather the races against the common enemy" - I totally forgot that part. Maybe because in the game the races themselves didn't care a flying fuck about the dark fucks. So it's likely that I forgot this part because nobody in the game really cared about it either. So why should you as the player? You were just the idiot dragging along the "plot". I had rather seen them all killed - maybe then the plot would have been memorizable.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

I need a rogue in my party. Two options, good... I wonder if I should go for the flamboyant bisexual attention whore, or the flamboyant bisexual attention whore.

Be the rogue, avoid dealing with either

 

[Carrion]

For me DA:O died by a thousand cuts. Although I enjoyed the first few hours, I ended up disliking nearly everything about the game: The tedious cooldown-based combat built around a MMO-ish tank/healer/DPS combo. The constant trash mobs combined with a serious lack of different enemy types. The generic setting. The banal, shit, boring story. The predictable BioWare structure that had already been done to death. The tasteless visual style, like "mystical" symbols that look like tribal tattoos, or that terrible armor design with the giant shoulder pads. The effeminate writing. The humour that missed its mark every single time. The characters that were pretty much walking BioWare stereotypes (an insecure guy with no sense of humour, a bitchy woman who knows magic, a stoic warrior from foreign lands etc.). The BioWare "C&C". The fetch quests that someone probably "wrote" during a coffee break. The abhorrent romances and super awkward sex scenes complete with 21st century lingerie. The shameless in-game DLC pushing. The DLC where you can buy your companions gifts, including leather gloves for a fetishist gay elf. The scene where Leliana sings. The nonsensical battle cutscenes, like the one with Loghain's pathetic "betrayal" or the other where archers choose to enter melee combat like morons and still win.

None of these things would be a deal-breaker on its own, but when combined they make for one disgusting game. A few good things here and there aren't really enough to save a game when neither the gameplay nor the writing works.

 

[Cael]

No cathy, what im saying is that no one knew, therefore their actions were perfectly reasonable.

That is the problem with DA:O. Most of the actions and motivations of the NPC involved can be filed under "did not know" or "too selfish to give a fuck".

Loghain is squarely in the "did not know" category. Everything he did, including regicide, is for either the good of Ferelden (in his mind) or trying to preserve the throne for his daughter (what with rumours of Cailan wanting to get it on with Celene).
Then entire dwarf and elf segments boils down to "too selfish to give a fuck". The dwarves in particular. They are down to one city and there they are, selfishly trying to hold on to the traditions that made their top dogs top dogs and to hell with survival as a species.

But this is the thing: They are HUMAN impulses. Humanity IS like that. We have seen it time and again in history. The cognitive dissonance comes because most of us have been trained by cookie cutter western RPGs ad movies where you are the special one and that people listen to you and that you are chosen to end the threat and the threat is not only recognised by the powers that be, but they are doing something about it. See Star Wars, Magic Candle, Fallout 1 or 2, heck, even look at Mario Bros. You are helped by the good guys and opposed by the bad guys. Good vs Evil. End of story.

And then Dragon Age explodes into the scene. The good guys oppose you not for comedy value but because they actually BELIEVE they are doing the Right Thing(tm). "But I'm the good guy!" you cry. Well, not in their eyes. And that is where a lot of players fell apart.

Loghain was a good character. What he does makes sense from his point of view, and I find it hard to fault him in many ways. Alistair is also a good character. What he does makes sense from his point of view. However, I hate immature, selfish brats, regardless of their sense of humour, so I can't stand the twerp. That is the value of Dragon Age IF you are one of those people who can see things from multiple points of view.

 

[Beastro]

• to stop an ancient and evil precursor race from returning to power (the lizardfolk, the Rakatan Star Forge, the Reapers, the Darkspawn).

Ancient evil's a neat bit of plot, but it needs to be established well, especially if it can be allowed to ferment in the background of a series to make it's emergence more organic and its significance more relatable.

About the closest I can think of in a game is Arcanum and how Kerghan was always in the background as a footnote of history mentioned alongside the rest of the plot you pay more attention to thinking it's more important.

If only JRPGs could manage to do some of that for many of the end bosses when they pull that twist.

I do wonder at times how much Ancient Evil is a modern plot/thematic concept from our perception of time and history, since I can't recall it really being in old literature/religious stories. A modern mind would find the Titans buried in Tartarus an odd hint of their eventually release at some point, but to the Greeks they were over and done with.

Loghain was a good character. What he does makes sense from his point of view, and I find it hard to fault him in many ways. Alistair is also a good character. What he does makes sense from his point of view. However, I hate immature, selfish brats, regardless of their sense of humour, so I can't stand the twerp. That is the value of Dragon Age IF you are one of those people who can see things from multiple points of view.

He was the only likable person in the game.

 

[Cael]

I do wonder at times how much Ancient Evil is a modern plot/thematic concept from our perception of time and history, since I can't recall it really being in old literature/religious stories. A modern mind would find the Titans buried in Tartarus an odd hint of their eventually release at some point, but to the Greeks they were over and done with.

They merely used other ancient evils instead, like the monsters spawned from the mating of various gods with various things, not all of them sentient.

Loghain was a good character. What he does makes sense from his point of view, and I find it hard to fault him in many ways. Alistair is also a good character. What he does makes sense from his point of view. However, I hate immature, selfish brats, regardless of their sense of humour, so I can't stand the twerp. That is the value of Dragon Age IF you are one of those people who can see things from multiple points of view.

He was the only likable person in the game.

Who? Alistair? I couldn't stand the guy. He was likeable, up until the Landsmeet when he goes completely batshit psycho. For all of his worshipping of Duncan and the Grey Wardens, the most basic tenet of the Grey never made it through a single brain cell in his head: They would do ANYTHING to take out the darkspawn, and that includes recruiting murderers, traitors and worse. There are labels for people like that, who love the prestige that a title brings but care little for the duties that comes with the title. None of them have good connotations.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I made two attempts with DW rogue, but always got bored and dropped it off after you convince 1 or 2 factions to join you.

Main story/writing/gay romances aside, the gameplay is just so goddamn boring and resembles those repulsive MMORPGS.

Have the main tank aggro everything>cast freeze cone/other debuffs>move in your DPS>pick up bronze/silver coins>go to shop and buy sword that has +1 more dmg>repeat the whole thing.

 

[Cael]

Have the main tank aggro everything>cast freeze cone/other debuffs>move in your DPS>pick up bronze/silver coins>go to shop and buy sword that has +1 more dmg>repeat the whole thing.

You do realise that you have basically described every RPG ever: kill things, take their stuff, buy better stuff for yourself, repeat.

 

[Piotrovitz]

You do realise that in any decent RPG there is some diversity in combat encounters that require you to pick up different tactics, instead of mowing through hordes of same mobs over and over again, doing the same stuff repeatedly?

 

[Cael]

Doesn't he die anyway while assaulting the bhaalspawn? I read his character sheet on wiki

Yes, he does, which makes the anti-Riordan rants pretty hilarious, especially the one which said that it took away the drama of the choice about who dies in the end. Riordan's only role in the whole game was to tell you about the Archdemon jumping bodies and a Warden has to die to kill it permanently. He came, he spoke, he ends up a red puddle on the ground (literally, since he fell about 100m on to flagstone).