Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

WH40k: Dawn of War Ultimate Alliance mod

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
ua-loadscreen-v3-optimised.jpg

http://www.moddb.com/mods/ultimate-apocalypse-mod

So, this thing came up on my radar and I was instantly blown away by some gameplay vids:

(his channel is very good in general for RTS nuts)

I love the expanded gameplay options for the game although some changes are quite questionable


So, the question is: does anyone from the dex want to multiplay this baby? I kinda suck as far as RTSes go but I'm up for anything, hit me up for gaems
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,879
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Jaedar says it's terriburu.
Yup.

It changes almost nothing in tier 1 and 2 in the races I tried (SoB and IG), and that's where 90% of all games take place.

The actual "apocalypse" units cost several thousands of requisition and power, making them even more unreachable. I mean, 400/400 for tier4 in vanilla is already very pricy, asking that you pay 4000/4000 for something that only unlocks actually useful stuff (which also cost several thousands) is not anythign that can ever happen if either player is actually trying to win.

Perhaps if you play quickstart and 10 min no attack, but at that point, what is the even the point.
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
817
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I tried one of the earlier versions, gotta say I didn't really like it either.
They definitely went for quantity first and foremost. Sure, it's nice to have most of the units that people created for DoW1 over the years in one mod, but the difference in quality of many models really shows. Why would you keep stuff like the vanilla DoW campaign guardsmen? They stick out like a sore thumb. Balancing is all over the place too, as it was with all DoW versions, but now that there's hundreds of units and weapon upgrades it's pretty much a guesswork as to what works how because of how obtuse DoW1 is with things like weapon damage (I could go into details, I've done some DoW modding in the past, let's just say that the dps you see on the UI means very, very little). I don't want it to be balanced for esports or any of that shit, but here I'm just making random units and throwing them at the enemy.
But my biggest complaint would be that when you actually get to the late game it becomes almost unplayable. DoW1 has horrible pathfinding and maps that can barely fit a base for races with large buildings (like IG) and bigger armies and titans don't exactly help with that.
 

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
After having sunk some hours into it, here are my observations:

It changes almost nothing in tier 1 and 2 in the races I tried (SoB and IG)
Cannot speak for SoB from experience as I've never played that faction in either vanilla or this mod, but going off changelog.

As far as IG goes, they now have Imerpial Riders an early game melee unit which can be quite devastating. Every IG infantry unit now has entrenchment options that gives them defensive bonuses vs ranged and morale damage.

that's where 90% of all games take place.
Honestly, that's pretty false from my experience: almost every unit in the game had their hit points raised, so early game engagements last longer now. Resource gain has been boosted dramatically even in normal mode and that allows you to tier up pretty fast. In fact, I've never had a game that lasted for less than 30 minutes and by that time you're either into t4 or spamming t3 elites.

You probably have to use some special setting that lowers resource gain for most game to take place at t1&t2 tbh.

The actual "apocalypse" units cost several thousands of requisition and power, making them even more unreachable. I mean, 400/400 for tier4 in vanilla is already very pricy, asking that you pay 4000/4000 for something that only unlocks actually useful stuff (which also cost several thousands) is not anythign that can ever happen if either player is actually trying to win.
Again, boosted resource aquisition rate lets you obtain titans pretty damn fast, even with less than half map control.

Why would you keep stuff like the vanilla DoW campaign guardsmen?
Eh, it's vice versa for me, most of the new stuff looks like ass compared to vanilla units, especially as far as animations go.

(I could go into details, I've done some DoW modding in the past, let's just say that the dps you see on the UI means very, very little).
I would very much like that, yes, if you could.

DoW1 has horrible pathfinding and maps that can barely fit a base for races with large buildings (like IG) and bigger armies and titans don't exactly help with that.
That I agree with, although they have released maps specifically with that in mind.

EDIT: I've done some modding myself for the DoW awhile ago but I dont believe I actually researched any of the armor types. The mod also added at least 4 new armor types, btw: Living Metal for necrons, Super Structure, Titan and Heavy Vehicle (although that one might have been included in the main game)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
817
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I would very much like that, yes, if you could.
I'm writing from memory here, so it might not be 100% accurate, but it's more or less like this:
The damage you see on the UI is: minimum damage = min damage value/reload time value, maximum damage = max damage value/reload time value. If I remember correctly, the displayed damage will change only if a research increases weapon's damage or changes reload time, while attaching leaders to squads increase dps by up to 50%, but doesn't show up in the calculation.

What is not included (There are other things but those are the 2 big ones, there's also minimum damage, setup time, another armor piercing value that works alongside the AP table, special modifiers that deal damage over time like flamers and probably more I don't remember).
- weapon accuracy: tooltip says it's included, but it's not. Accuracy for most weapons ranges from 50% to 90%, changes when the unit is moving, with upgrades, effects and leaders. There are also weapons that don't use accuracy, but deal AoE damage and scatter in random directions.
- armor piercing: unmodded DoW has 15 or so armor types (across infantry, commanders, vehicles and demons, tooltip only gives you the general idea which unit is which, the type you see in the game is NOT what the unit is in the editor) mods can and do add more. Each weapon has a table with AP values for all armor types, for example a weapon that has 50 for infantry_medium will deal 50% to units with that armor type.
Now, you'd think weapons deal 100% to unarmored targets, then progressively less to heavier armor. Nope. Most weapons deal about 50% across the board and 10% to vehicles and buildings and the other way around for dedicated anti-armor weapons like lascannons, so generally weapons deal roughly the same damage to orks and marines in power armor. Some weapons have very high damage but low AP values. Basically they created a really complex system and never utilized it properly, so it just ends up being obtuse. Unfortunately most mods do the exact same thing, while adding a ton of new units and weapons making the whole thing even more confusing, some add weapons that have completely different damage and AP values than vanilla weapons and use them alongside. Even if someone implements some sort of system for armor/damage in their mod they never explain it.
The only mod that approached some sort of clear system for armor/damage is FoK because it tries to adapt tabletop rules, but in my opinion that doesn't work very well either.
 
Last edited:

Inspectah

Savant
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Messages
468
oh wow, that's actually pretty interesting, I played a lot this game (never on a tournament level though) and never even realised that
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom