Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Game News Wasteland 3 Fig Update #22: Building the Everest - From Concept to Design

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Make America Great Again Infinitron Trade Master Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Parrots:
    62,938
    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Click here and disable ads!
    Tags: Colin McComb; InXile Entertainment; Paul Marzagalli; Wasteland 3

    In the latest Wasteland 3 Fig update, inXile give us our first look at the design and development of their vertical slice area, the Stanley Hotel, now renamed to the Everest Hotel. The Everest's writer is none other than Colin McComb, and you might find the update an interesting look into his thought processes:

    The idea for the hotel was born from the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, inspiration for Stephen King’s Overlook Hotel in “The Shining”. I wanted to make a haunted hotel, a place with a hideous secret that would entrap the unwary. As a secondary goal, I wanted to include several references to The Shining itself as an homage to an author whose early work had an outsize influence on my career (read: gave me nightmares as a kid).

    Originally, I was looking at the basement of the hotel as the home to a dimensional rift, and it was voices from the rift that spoke to the caretakers of the hotel, exhorting them to murder/“preserve the spirits of the lost”. The first comment on this plan was, “This is Wasteland, not Torment.”

    OK, fine. What if instead of an actual rift, the caretakers just believe there’s a hole to another world there? That’s still cool, but now we need to explain why it is that they’d believe such a thing. The easiest solution to that? Mass hallucination and charismatic cult leaders.

    So now I needed to find a way to induce mass hallucination in this crowd, and what easier way to do that than via the fungus the caretakers use for food? Throw some hallucinogens (similar to psilocybin), maybe include something like Cordyceps to rewire their neural pathways, and suddenly having the caretakers believing that they can kill people to save them starts to sound almost reasonable.

    This led me to consider a fungus greenhouse, decorative fungus in the hotel, and a bunch of fungus-related content (ironic, since I hate mushrooms), but, as with the idea of the dimensional rift, I realized that it wasn't the right direction to take this level. It took away agency from the Caretakers, and made their actions the fault of an exterior force. Worse, as we plotted out the flow of the fungus quests, it just wasn't fun. Back to the drawing board! We kept some of the ideas that we liked, while reworking others. This is all part and parcel of the review process.

    So now the hotel's caretakers are straight-up murderers. But why? Why would the custodians of a pre-war hotel decide that they had to kill their guests? I had to dig still deeper into caretaker psychology to help understand their motivations, and to keep them from becoming simple Bad Guys Who Should be Killed.

    Eventually, we settled on an explanation, and I added a section to the Zone Design Document outlining the foundational thoughts of a murder cult:

    The Caretakers – once a devoted and active group whose primary mission is to keep alive the grace of the old world – have been slowly dying out, age and accident claiming them faster than they can replenish their ranks. Their generational knowledge is vanishing with them… and as they die, the standards of the hotel itself have been slipping away, and fewer people come every year. The Caretakers are taking matters into their own hands now, luring guests they deem “unhappy” back to the hotel. Why do they persist?
    They have, over the years, altered their philosophy. They have built the idea of the Everest into something more than an old building. They believe they must fill its halls with spirits to protect it - and that it, in turn, will protect those spirits from the frozen wastes outside.

    They’re offended by the accusations that they’re killing people. They use euphemisms (like funeral directors), and do not want to say the actual words, like “murder”, “desecration”, “corpses”, or “victims.”

    Now it’s just a matter of defining the hotel’s interior space, defining the characters and conversations, filling the place with fun and challenging things to do, and figuring out the quest and encounter variables. (ha ha, “just” - see, this is where the real work is!)

    I’ll talk about that process later. Right now, the important thing is designing a way to get the players there in the first place. And this is where pointer quests come in handy. A pointer quest is a way to encourage players to go visit a new area. We can combine these with other missions and content that encourage players to go there, explore, and come back.

    In this particular area, we run into a character named Donnelly. I’m actively in the process of developing his conversation as I write this, so I’m still sharpening aspects of his character… but he’s a friendly guy, and a wide smile is a welcome sight in the frozen wastes. He’d *really* like you to get up the Everest Hotel. His traveling companion, a Mr. Parker, checked in to the hotel several days ago, and Donnelly’s worried sick about him. And, incidentally, he’d sure like the Rangers to bring back the floppy disk that his partner went in there to find.

    Now that we’ve got Donnelly’s background, we need to figure out how to communicate all this to the players. First, Donnelly hails the player and introduces the area. He delivers the crucial information we need - data about his partner, a teaser about the hotel, and just enough sketchiness that we’re going to be suspicious of this character. He’ll also provide some basic information about the rest of the Suicide Forest area - about the mountain lions, for instance, or the rumors of armed partisans in the mountains at his back. The Rangers might want to talk to him again, so we’ll set up conditionals to make sure the players haven’t progressed further in the quest… and then we need to determine what the quest states are after the Rangers return from the hotel. Have they located the disk he sought? Have they killed all the Caretakers? Have they found his partner? And is that partner pissed off?

    But that’s probably enough discussion for now. We’ll address quest design in a future update.
    I'm not sure that's the best idea one could come up with. Better than the fungus one, though.
     
    • Informative x 3
    • decline x 2
    • Participation Award x 1
    • hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • meh x 1
    • Interesting x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. BilboBaggins Novice

    BilboBaggins
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Parrots:
    48
    déjà vu
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Salute Salute x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,864,866
    It seemed like an interesting update, but then I noticed it was signed by Colin Mcbald and I went completely limp.

    Sorry bub, nobody takes you seriously anymore.
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • butthurt butthurt x 3
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. SwiftCrack Magister

    SwiftCrack
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Parrots:
    1,729
    :negative:
     
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Parrots:
    15,703
    Location:
    Terra da Garoa
    So the caretakers want to "keep alive the grace of the old world" in a fancy hotel - a very elitist goal - and do so by kidnapping random people to fill the hotel and protect it... That makes zero sense. Is like saying the Brotherhood of Steel wants to preserve old technology by kidnapping as many tribals as possible.

    Shows well why Torment was such mess - he wanted to copy The Shinning, was told it obviously didn't fit the setting, and now he's stubbornly trying to bend it so it will fit.
     
    • Funny x 6
    • Agree x 5
    • Brofist x 3
    • Despair x 3
    • Salute x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Bad Spelling x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. I ASK INANE QUESTIONS Savant

    I ASK INANE QUESTIONS
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Parrots:
    147
    This is why we can't have nice things.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • decline x 1
    • Despair x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • [citation needed] x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator Patron

    Jaesun
    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Parrots:
    36,378
    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    It could fit very well within Wastelands setting actually.

    Your allegory with the Brotherhood isn't something the Brotherhood would ever do though to achieve preserving Technology.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    • [citation needed] [citation needed] x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. l3loodAngel Proud INTJ Patron

    l3loodAngel
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Parrots:
    1,394


    First of all it would be somewhat OK if it would be a museum and NOT a Hotel. The knowledge how to clean a room and make beds is slowly disappearing? Whatever shall we do?
    Although I find it amusing that you at inxile measure product size not in MB/GB, but in Courics I am somewhat puzzled why do you push this nonsense. You have a clear blueprint in FO/FO2 (factions like Vault City, New Reno, Super Mutants, New California ETC.) and know what PEOPLE want. So my main question why do you persist? Nobody gives a fuck about your homage to your hero, love interest or wet dream. The bottom line is that I am not going to pay for your homages...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. shihonage You see: shelter. Patron

    shihonage
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Parrots:
    6,537
    Location:
    location, location
    Bubbles In Memoria
    They're making another one?

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • incline incline x 1
    • Racist Racist x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. kether Barely Literate

    kether
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Parrots:
    1
    insignificant update about generic haunted mansion mission - why? and cult leaders on high
     
    ^ Top  
  11. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Parrots:
    10,807
    Isn't that what he said?

    And lol at Colin McCopy, looks like all he can do is copy and "give tribute". Honestly at this point he should be relegated to writing the backer NPCs.
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Iznaliu Arbiter

    Iznaliu
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Parrots:
    1,666
    That will never happen.
     
    • decline decline x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Parrots:
    12,553
    Location:
    Hungary
    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    This just boggles my mind. If it was an interesting update to you, than it means that Colin wrote an update which you found good. Why do you need to be edgy and dismiss it just because of Colin.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • retadred x 2
    • Funny x 1
    • Rage x 1
    • it is a mystery x 1
    • Kitty x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,864,866
    You do realize he introduces himself in the very first sentence, rite?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Parrots:
    12,553
    Location:
    Hungary
    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    I get it, it's just that you said it seemed interesting. Then read it and see if it is, but dismissing it beause of Colin... I dunno.
     
    • retadred retadred x 2
    • :M :M x 2
    ^ Top  
  16. Kev Inkline Arcane

    Kev Inkline
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,745
    Location:
    The homeland of primordial megafauna
    A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Is it a 3.5" or a 5.25" floppy? This is important.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Old Old x 2
    ^ Top  
  17. Make America Great Again Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Parrots:
    9,116
    Location:
    The Bosom of the Holy Spirit
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. BilboBaggins Novice

    BilboBaggins
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Parrots:
    48
    I'm hoping for code wheel.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 2
    • incline incline x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. vdweller Learned

    vdweller
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Parrots:
    249
    Yes yes evil cultists doing stuff how original.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. TalesfromtheCrypt Arcane

    TalesfromtheCrypt
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Parrots:
    3,921
    Colin McCuck ruining everything he touches, again. I'm afraid even Zeits won't be able to save this trainwreck.
     
    • Agree x 5
    • Disagree x 1
    • decline x 1
    • Despair x 1
    • Salute x 1
    • butthurt x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Lurker King Arcane The Real Fanboy

    Lurker King
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,865,278
    You mean like a Fallout setting, but with a worse brand of design, because frankly nobody gives a fuck about the Wasteland brand. We know, and the developers know we know, that Wasteland is just an indirect means to make a Fallout without the IP. Haunted mansions are like zombies. That are overused concepts that you should avoid unless you can avoid cliches. The guy wants to make a homage to Shining, i.e., intentionally insert haunted house cliches in a post-apocalyptic setting. The only things they got it right was the artist and the one player start.

    But much artistic vision.

    Also notices how gameplay is completely ignored from the picture. We don't know if the player is able to make different choices, what kinds of guns he is going to use or whether if there any recruitable NPCs. Nothing, just his pretentious egocentric ramblings about an idea. Roxor is right. Torch it all.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Edgy Edgy x 1
    • Salute Salute x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Parrots:
    3,546
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Maybe all of inXile's talent and experience accumulated up until this point can add up to one decent game.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Fabulously Optimistic Fabulously Optimistic x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Excidium II Arcane

    Excidium II
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,866,120
    Location:
    Third World
    m-maybe this time it will be good. No it won't FFS. What will it take for your retards to learn?

    "accumulated experience" of what? The InXile spirit entity? They recycle their staff all the time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Edgy Edgy x 1
    • Salute Salute x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Make America Great Again Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Parrots:
    9,116
    Location:
    The Bosom of the Holy Spirit
    Inxile lost any goodwill they had with torment. They will continue to release mediocre nostalgia cash grabs until they go bankrupt... It's only one failed kickstarter away.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • Edgy x 1
    • Despair x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Parrots:
    4,488
    Because Colin and co are pretty good at making updates but not that good at making good games?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)