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Wasteland Wasteland 2 Romance State of Decay Style

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Hi RPG Codex! Hear me out, and bear with me...

Why can't Wasteland 2 have a romance system affecting Squad Morale positively or negatively like State of Decay's?

Both are post-apocalyptic games and both have you control multiple characters, instead of focus on one only. One is set in zombie apocalypse and the other in a post-nuclear apocalypse. However, it seems to me that in a zombie apocalypse with 6 billion fast runner zombies in the world, one would have MUCH less time overall, especially if on the move. In a way, post-nuclear apocalypse especially in fortified places like the Ranger Citadel affords MORE time for romance to develop than in a zombie apocalypse where even a FORTIFIED place isn't safe if even one infected enters it somehow.

This is how I picture a State of Decay romance system to be implemented in Wasteland 2:
At character creation, the player can set romance status between the four characters (like, girlfriend/boyfriend, fiancee, spouse). Or let the game randomly pair them up as best as possible, with possible romantic triangles and loners. Also, even if there is a loner on the team, that loner can have a romance with an NPC at base or out in the world.
Slight Positive Bonus on Squad Morale if a romantic pairing duo or triple or more functions well

For example, if the romance is requitted and just somehow supported by the player, then the two members get slight accuracy or aura bonuses when they fight together in the same unit and same vicinity for example. Like an earlier poster said, if a romantic triangle forms, then it could lead to shouting matches, jealousy, lowering Team Morale and as a leader you can either ignore it (with a chance that one of the romantic triangle's would just quit or worse yet go berserk and kill the other or both) or actively sort it out, either keeping the two together or somehow working out a menage-a-trois haha.

I just liked how in State of Decay I didn't know each playthrough who will like whom and whether that will cost me problems or not. I think a similar system could work very well in Wasteland 2. Both are apocalyptic and don't have "time for romance" but that's why State of Decay's minimal but present Romance system is at least somewhat covering that basic human instinct.

I just find that in a group of both men and women in the wasteland, fighting and surviving day by day, with nature in overdrive to pass the genes... you would have the opposite problem, of keeping romance out or contained.

It's just a very real disconnect how Angie CERTAINLY had romantic feelings for Ace... and then NONE of your ranger squadmates EVER do, over the entire epic run. C'mon, THAT is unreal. Unless the squad and everybody you've met are all irradiated sterile or replaced with robotic parts, but THAT is the only explanation for their stoic celibacy. Or more like it, InXile just decided not to bother with romances and that's why they aren't there.

Even in Fallout 2, there wasn't a REAL romance, between PC and Miria/Davin... but having that dark humorous shotgun wedding and the dastardly evil things one could do later is what's missing in Wasteland 2.

Wasteland 2 currently can't be played as an utterly depraved Ranger squad... more like a gray moral zone, but not full out evil. While goodie-two-shoes is very possible.

So, TLDR: Wasteland 2 can have F2-like dark humor romance (pimp your spouse, sell to slavery, etc) with romance affecting positively or negatively Squad Morale, like in State of Decay.

What say you? Flame on, but please don't haha.

If InXile isn't going to do this, then when and if they'll release modding tools, I'll try and implement such a romance system. It's minimal but I think at least for me, managing team personal relationships I'll find more IMMERSIVE, though perhaps more clunky and more chore-like as well, but if it helps with immersion, I'm all for it.
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
Welcome to the Codex, Turan Khan.

Your ideas are terrible. Please never post about them again.

Sincerely, Eyeball.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Oooh yes Flame-fuel, so warm and fuzzy....

C'mon some constructive criticism why these ideas fail. I mean they're not terribly great for State of Decay either, but at least it's a step in the right direction and a minimalist way of dealing with it. Not dealing with this at all is immersion-breaking for me.
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
Wasteland 2 needs a romance system like a fish needs a bicycle. It's simply an atrocious, horrifyingly bad idea that needs to be put in the barrel with all the other awful ideas of mankind, right next to nazism and Scientology, shat on and lit on fire.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Ok, that was more or less closer to constructive criticism, but not quite.

Why no SoD-style romance for Wasteland 2
- Extraneous system
- Clunky to manage
- Random rolling of relationships can produce unrealistic/hilarious results
- Possibility to lose a valuable squad member due to an extraneous, immersion-only, RP feature that provides negligible, slight gameplay boosts

See above is the kind of constructive criticism I'm awaiting from this thread to diligently discuss an idea. So far, RPG Codex doesn't impress me with its forum-cultivating environment.

RPG Codex seems so far just to be a forum of theorycrafters, number-crunchers which is great for builds but apparently you lot aren't into RP that much. And different forums have different communities, that's understandable.

I take it that you didn't enjoy Fallout 2 "romance" either, you probably thought that was "atrocious" handling as well? And you probably were of the same opinion of SoD's romance system implementation.

However, I happened to like SoD's romance system and I KNOW I'm not the only one. So perhaps not an InXile patch, but a future mod certainly.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
No, they were juvenile. I enjoyed only a couple of Baldur's Gate romances, both were modded works. Even Baldur's Gate romances were juvenile, but they were something. I ain't asking for much here.

And I see where you're trying to gather forum support from since ME and DA romances are so lambasted everywhere and rightfully so. At least, Bioware is trying to handle romances in some fashion. Chris Avellone even promised romances in Pillars of Eternity and granted it makes more sense in a high fantasy setting than a post-apocalyptic one, but since Sod was able to pull a minimalist romance system via Squad Morale, why can't Wasteland 2, at least as a mod or an optional patch or DLC? After all, it's a business and customer is king. You don't have to get that patch or DLC but others like me would, for immersion, if not for gameplay.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Even strategy games like Total War had family trees and minimalist "romance" spouses and such with a trait system, etc. Even that STRATEGY game was more ROLE-playing than Wasteland 2 currently has.

Instead of ROLE playing... I find Wasteland 2 is more BUILD-playing, which is not wrong, it's still fun to min-max. But it's not a ROLE-playing game. it's a BUILD-playing game then. SQUADBUILD-playing time, to be exact.

It's just I'd love to ROLEPLAY my squad, their interpersonal relationships, their health and emotional conditions, revenge or redemption. Make them human dammit, not just stat-boxes waiting to be crunched out into a killing machine. Otherwise, I'd rather just play XCOM.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
You know what's interesting, how different communities react differently.

I get you guys loud and clear, you're REALLY against any and all forms of romance or even relationship/friendship management in your Wasteland 2 or CRPG games. Gotcha. Understood.

It's just interesting to contrast that again another site, Sorcerer's Net that hosts PocketPlane group with great community romance mods and other mods, they were mostly in favor of Wasteland 2 having at least a State of Decay romance system. Some even called for more in-depth romance/relationship system.

It just goes to show how two different forums and communities react drastically differently to the same prompt on the same game.

So if you think that I'm angry or peeved or something, I'm really not. Just as an anecdotal researcher taking down some objective notes from different sites. However, Sorcerer's Net offered more constructive criticism in at least a short 2-3 sentence paragraph instead of here just shooting down the idea without tell me me exactly HOW and WHY the idea is not good. So objectively, the pro argument provided me with more concrete examples why it WOULD work.

Again, I'm not arguing for dialogue trees like BG, DA, or ME romances... but for a Squad Morale systems that takes into account relationships, friendships, enemies, including romantic relationships, minimally like State of Decay does. It's not overboard for Wasteland 2, where a BG-like romance would be, arguably.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,748
Location
New Zealand - Pronouns: HE/HIM
Just as an anecdotal researcher taking down some objective notes from different sites.

plus if you are indeed a 'anecdotal researcher' then you are aware that any data received is useful; even silence can be used in findings.

so actually your attempt to dilute the true data from codex members by tainting the results with encouragement means that any findings you make are going to be inherently unsound
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Poos, I'm not demanding a feature, just discussing a possible feature idea and expecting a discussion in a forum. Ugh and thumbs down does not a discussion forum make. This wasn't a poll. Otherwise, for a poll such a terse reaction would make sense. This was an open ended question.

Waifu? What the hell is that? Like an endearing term for a wife? Sounds like making fun of Asian-speech, that could be considered derogatory you know?

Haha, Scotchmo could probably hitch up with that Ranger Citadel cookie-mother, if he sobered and cleaned up a lil.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Without a poll, I would call all this "data" unsound... hence only anecdotal evidence. I'm not tainting the results, but as the OP I'm obligated to stand by my idea, even though I ultimately do agree that for this forum's audience the end result is PLEASE NO ROMANCES. I'm not blind.
 

Turan Khan

Literate
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
26
Hmmm, ok ... "tasteless" without taste, bland.

I would agree with you that State of Decay's romance system really being so minimal just like a spreadsheet status for your Squad Morale base is indeed rather bland and thus tasteless. However, at the same time, I would argue that this minimalist approach is the only compromising solution to anti-relationship/romance in CRPGs hardliners like RPG Codex seems to be. I had thought that this idea was a middling ground between full-blown BG romances and a more minimalist solution. I mean how more minimalist can a mention of a relationship, rival/enemy system go?

I've read one comment recently from a player of JaggedAlliance. There is no romance there but there is a relationship sort of a Squad Morale system where the members can like or dislike or even form rivalry and vendettas against each other. I LIKE that... romance is only a fraction of that, but missing it completely is just immersion-breaking for me, making the ENTIRE experience TASTELESS or BLAND by the end.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,748
Location
New Zealand - Pronouns: HE/HIM
Poos, I'm not demanding a feature, just discussing a possible feature idea and expecting a discussion in a forum. Ugh and thumbs down does not a discussion forum make. This wasn't a poll. Otherwise, for a poll such a terse reaction would make sense. This was an open ended question.

Waifu? What the hell is that? Like an endearing term for a wife? Sounds like making fun of Asian-speech, that could be considered derogatory you know?

Haha, Scotchmo could probably hitch up with that Ranger Citadel cookie-mother, if he sobered and cleaned up a lil.


dont get me wrong, youre attempt at getting meaningful discourse is admirable but you have to know your audience; i lurked ages before signing up so i could gauge the meta and post accordingly.

bunny hopping between forums without doing due diligence and you get what you ask for; seemingly random abuse disguised as a legitimate response.
 

MrBuzzKill

Arcane
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
651
Romance DLC only $19.99!
 

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