Development Info Wasteland 2 Progress Update

[Vault Dweller]

Why? Because it will rub too many people the wrong way.

You mean, like the idea of a turn-based top-down RPG in the year 2012?

Don't be silly. First, you're just repeating a common misconception. ToEE, for example, was Atari's best selling PC game in 2003 and was best selling Troika game. Top down never stopped Blizzard, etc. Second, you're forgetting the obvious - the KS was a success and 60,000 people have already said "fuck yeah!" to a TB isometric RPG. They didn't say anything about anything else.

Thus, in a sense, doing that KS wasn't a risk. Fargo played his only card and played it well. Fucking it up now with questionable mechanics would be extremely risky and completely unnecessary.

Oh wait I get it you're extrapolating from your experience with AoD's reception

Do you have to have this experience to know that "Do you want to save a kid? Y/N? Yes. You drowned, lol." design will piss off 95% of players?

 

[Infinitron]

Do you have to have this experience to know that "Do you want to save a kid? Y/N? Yes. You drowned, lol." design will piss off 95% of players?

How about "Do you want to save a kid? Y (Athletics skill check)/N (Reputation loss)"?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Is there a point to this tale?

 

[Infinitron]

Is there a point to this tale?

Uh, yes? Give the player enough information so he won't feel blindsided and he won't be pissed. I know that you know this.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What are we talking about here? The likelihood of you possibly dying trying to save the kid or whether or not it can be designed in an interesting and life-threatening way? If it's the latter, then the answer is "yes, of course". If it's the former, then my guess is "no, it's not likely". If the fact that it will piss people off isn't enough, consider the "witness". The design - as presented - indicates that failure to save the kid will lower your reputation and have minor consequences, which implies that it's a simple choice and choosing to do nothing will make you look like a dick. Hence, no risk of drowning.

 

[Infinitron]

What are we talking about here? The likelihood of you possibly dying trying to save the kid or whether or not it can be designed in an interesting and life-threatening way? If it's the latter, then the answer is "yes, of course". If it's the former, then my guess is "no, it's not likely". If the fact that it will piss people off isn't enough, consider the "witness". The design - as presented - indicates that failure to save the kid will lower your reputation and have minor consequences, which implies that it's a simple choice and choosing to do nothing will make you look like a dick. Hence, no risk of drowning.

You'll look like a dick for not trying to save a drowning kid no matter how dangerous the water is. So it's not necessarily that simple.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not necessarily. At least, not in my opinion. If you can't swim, you can't swim. What are the kids' relative gonna tell you? We wish you died with our son?

 

[Average Manatee]

I rather dislike things that boil down to a single possible succeed or die skill checks. I'd like more options but saving a drowning person, especially a small child, is too cut and dry (lol).

Better idea: Kid is in a tree surrounded by wolves. NPC on the scene is scared shitless and looks to your party to help. This would be a very difficult fight for the party which would consume a large amount of their resources to fight, but should not be impossible. However, there is the option of using someone as bait to draw the attention of the wolves away. This requires a very high athletics check for the character to survive.

Possible outcomes:
Players either defeat wolves or successfully distract them - Players get a small reputation boost in town. No reward though, town is too poor, so any bullets wasted or w/e are on your dollar.
Players try to distract, but the bait fails the athletics check and dies - Players get a very large reputation boost in town and in surrounding areas for their self sacrifice.
Players talk the NPC into acting as bait - Kid is saved but no reputation boost (you didn't really do the work after all, just convinced someone else to die for the kid). NPC dies and potentially affects in-town quests.
Players avoid the situation entirely - Kid dies. You get a small reputation penalty, people can't help disliking you for doing nothing, but the NPC assures them that nothing could be done to save the kid.

All 4 are reasonably plausible solutions that a non-psychopath would choose, with no obvious best or worst outcome that forces a reload from last save game.

 

[kazgar]

In the dystopian future, there are no long sticks or rope.

 

[wormix]

3rd option: shoot kid?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

4th option: Drown VD.

 

[tuluse]

It's been implied on the W2 forums that water is a precious resource. So what if the kid is drowning in something that's not water? Or at least drinkable water? Like a radiated pool of goo? In the town you're visiting the locals have adapted and are immune to the radiation effects but you're not. So the choice is get severely radiated and try to save a kid (not necessarily succeed), or don't try. If you don't try some dude comes up as is all like "why the fuck didn't you try to save the kid?" and you're all like "fuck you it's a irradiated pool of shit". Then he's all like "you assholes I'm telling" then your choice is let him tell and deal with it or kill him and try to hide the evidence.

Not the best grey moral scenario in the world, but I don't think it's the worst either.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Dude. Why are you being creative instead of whining like a baby? Weak.

 

[shihonage]

Dude. Why are you being creative instead of whining like a baby? Weak.

The irony is strong in this one.

 

[Brayko]

He (Fargo) will counter his stupidity with some impressive speech or interview. He always does. Rinse and repeat. The truth is we'll never know how Wasteland 2 will be until release. Since Fargo can't into games like Panzer General or Hearts of Iron I can't really see me thoroughly enjoying Wasteland 2, unless he gives more freedom to the writers and designers that are out of the bounds of his own clique.

 

[St. Toxic]

Using the same shitty example over and over of, supposedly, c&c and gray areas of morality? Seriously? They're only up to progress reports and already cutting corners? And that screen-shot with all its cheerful colors, low-poly models and outdated water shaders? That's it, there's no way this game could ever be good. Maybe if they had the technical design genius of Troika, or the production values of Bethsoft to make up for it, but there's fuck all. Just this boy, drowning, over and over, and you having to kill all the witnesses just because you can't swim. Just fucking accept it, CRPGS are dead.

 

[almondblight]

Just this boy, drowning, over and over, and you having to kill all the witnesses just because you can't swim. Just fucking accept it, CRPGS are dead.

Yeah. The witnesses that also apparently stood by and watched the boy drown.

 

[St. Toxic]

Yeah. The witnesses that also apparently stood by and watched the boy drown.

Well, what else are you gonna do for entertainment once the world has ended?

 

[St. Toxic]

 

[Infinitron]

 

[General Maxson]

 

[St. Toxic]

Jokes aside, remember Smiley the trapper? You either tell the girl to fuck off, which kind of makes you an asshole, or you put on some rubber boots and go get the bastard. Or, you wade through sludge and grow extra appendages.

Same thing here. Either risk your health, use your wits (like, as someone already said, throw in a rope) or mind your own business. No matter what, you're always trading. Rope for safety. Rad-count for karma. Karma for don't-give-a-fuck. Take your pick.

Now, anybody want to throw my strip over to Fargo? I'd like to see his reaction.

 

[Infinitron]

Now, anybody want to throw my strip over to Fargo? I'd like to see his reaction.

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo DO EET

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Now, anybody want to throw my strip over to Fargo? I'd like to see his reaction.

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo DO EET

Calling Crooked Bee

 

[Infinitron]

Now, anybody want to throw my strip over to Fargo? I'd like to see his reaction.

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo DO EET

Calling Crooked Bee

Heh, I'm not sure if this is appropriate as an Official Kodex Kartoon.