Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[turrican]

So I just read over at Matt Chats page that Brian Fargo is thinking about doing Wasteland 2 financed through money raising, see: http://armchairarcade.com/neo/node/4561

More news are also on his twitter: http://twitter.com/brianfargo

Tim Schaefers Double Fine Adventure got 1,7 million dollars in one day this week through kickstarter as everybody is probably aware, and while they are not quite cutting out the middle man (after all, it is gonna be a steam release) it seems as this allows to let the developers create a game untainted by publisher demand crap.

What do you guys think about this approach?

 

[Bruma Hobo]

 

[Metro]

Heartening but man... Fargo has produced some shitty games with InXile.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Sounds exciting, but I have strong doubts about the possibility of a worthy sequel to Wasteland to be done in this day and age.

EDIT: Also, what Metro said.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

The bad thing about the Schafer/Kickstarter incident is that now every single developer* is suddenly looking at Kickstarter something like this:

My prediction is that either the Schafer dealio was a fluke, some sort of black swan event that is not replicable at all, or plenty of people are about to be milked in a whole new way, financing the making of more shit games, as developers bait them with (false) promises of artistic integrity and cash in on free capital and advertising.

You can be more than a mere consumer of crap...dare to be a Patron of Popamole!

*probably publishers as well

 

[Grim Monk]

Only if Obsidian will do the actual development.

We've already seen the "funny re-imagining" of Bard's Tale, and Demon's Forge as "the action game it always wanted to be".

 

[Trojan_generic]

Only if Interplay will do the actual development.

 

[Metro]

Only if Obsidian will do the actual development.

We've already seen the "funny re-imagining" of Bard's Tale, and Demon's Forge as "the action game it always wanted to be".

Uh... hate to yank those rose colored glasses off of your face but Obsidian hasn't fared much better with it's releases the last few years.

My prediction is that either the Schafer dealio was a fluke, some sort of black swan event that is not replicable at all...

I think it's replicable but certainly not sustainable. Each genre might be good for one or two titles but I really don't think you're going to consistently be able to get games funded this way. According to Schafer $2 million is what you need for what is basically an XBLA title these days (last few games he's put out). Putting aside the outliers (people who donate 100+ dollars) you'd need to sell over 65,000 preorders of $30ish each. And calling it a preorder is being generous given you're paying for something sight unseen one, two, or possibly three years in advance. While some people might tolerate that again and again I'm sure a majority won't buy into it. Eventually you'll run into a 'free rider' issue where people would just as soon as see other schlubs fund the game with preorders and wait for it's actual release to see if it's really a game they want.

This is hardly a new concept, either. Recent example is Crate Entertainment and Grim Dawn. They've been taking advance orders and it's been in development since 2010 and it probably won't be released until 2014.

 

[villain of the story]

If only.

I doubt this will ever take off. Neither Fargo, his shitty company or his shitty games have the same mainstream brand recognition as the others today. Double Fine generated much press attention with Brutal Legend and Costume Quest even if you consider Psychonauts as distant past. They also got some momentum from Notch's offer regarding Kickstart. Obsidian is the developer of FNV, a game that sold 5M+ units at release and they are more or less known for KOTOR2 as well, for better or for worse, so they also have a chance at it, I think. But Fargo?

1. Who the fuck is Brian Fargo?
2. Who the fuck is InXile and what did they make other than Bard's Tale?
3. What the fuck is Wasteland and why should anyone care?

I think he's just holding onto the idea out of severe case of delusional nostalgia.

Also, Fargo butthurt on Twitter:

People forget that Wasteland was the precursor to @fallout. We made Fallout because we didn't have the Wasteland rights.

LOL who gives a fuck any more, dude? This is like Bill Gates complaining that Microsoft had a go at tablets years before Apple's crap caught on. Actually, it's worse.

And indeed, he will only make a shitty action game.

 

[zeitgeist]

My prediction is that either the Schafer dealio was a fluke, some sort of black swan event that is not replicable at all

I'm more and more afraid that this is exactly what the classics (not only RPG but other genres too) were too - that no amount of money will ever produce a really good game anymore, and that it's impossible to create such games in today's environment for reasons completely unrelated to financing.

As far as the funding method itself goes, I'm pretty sure that a bunch of bandwagon-jumpers will be at least moderately successful with it in the near future. It's going to be interesting (and most likely rather soul-crushing) to see the results of free money being thrown at various developers, none of them amounting to anything even close to exceptional.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Uh... hate to yank those rose colored glasses off of your face but Obsidian hasn't fared much better with it's releases the last few years.

While Obsidian's trackrecord is spotty MOTB and F:NV already elevate Obsidian over anything Inxile could hope to reach.

 

[Metro]

Another problem is the nature of the development houses involved. Double Fine has always pretty much made Adventure games in one sub-genre or another. Their art style and platform has always been fairly similar. With Obsidian or InXile while they could easily make a solid cRPG for $500,000 they won't do it because the artists and programmers on their payroll aren't going to take pay cuts to put out low resolution isometric turn based combat games. They have 3D modelers and BLOOM specialists and animators and action combat guys and whatever that all need to be paid. Jesus, look at Dungeon Siege 3. Obviously you have to factor in publisher issues but apparently they put in enough man-hours/salary into the game to deem it worth $50 and... I can tell you... DS3 is barely better than an XBLA title.

While Obsidian's trackrecord is spotty MOTB and F:NV already elevate Obsidian over anything Inxile could hope to reach.

Oh, they fared better just not much better as I said. Never played MOTB but I did play vanilla NWN2 and if the world/level design in MOTB was as shitty as it was in NWN2 then I really don't care how much better the writing was. As far as New Vegas... it still amazes me why so many people on the Codex praise it -- MCA fetish, I guess.

 

[Davaris]

I think the top guys should look at dumping the studio system and going indie. They are caught in a rut making mega budget games. All they have to do is be as creative as they were, in the 1980s and 1990s and make games that are more like boardgames. If the people that were a success in that era, can't make a living creating games like that today, then no one can.

 

[Destroid]

Another problem is the nature of the development houses involved. Double Fine has always pretty much made Adventure games in one sub-genre or another. Their art style and platform has always been fairly similar. With Obsidian or InXile while they could easily make a solid cRPG for $500,000 they won't do it because the artists and programmers on their payroll aren't going to take pay cuts to put out low resolution isometric turn based combat games. They have 3D modelers and BLOOM specialists and animators and action combat guys and whatever that all need to be paid. Jesus, look at Dungeon Siege 3. Obviously you have to factor in publisher issues but apparently they put in enough man-hours/salary into the game to deem it worth $50 and... I can tell you... DS3 is barely better than an XBLA title.

While Obsidian's trackrecord is spotty MOTB and F:NV already elevate Obsidian over anything Inxile could hope to reach.

Oh, they fared better just not much better as I said. Never played MOTB but I did play vanilla NWN2 and if the world/level design in MOTB was as shitty as it was in NWN2 then I really don't care how much better the writing was. As far as New Vegas... it still amazes me why so many people on the Codex praise it -- MCA fetish, I guess.

They hire on extra manpower for large projects, and you can keep costs lower by completing the project in a shorter period of time.

 

[felipepepe]

My prediction is that either the Schafer dealio was a fluke, some sort of black swan event that is not replicable at all, or plenty of people are about to be milked in a whole new way, financing the making of more shit games, as developers bait them with (false) promises of artistic integrity and cash in on free capital and advertising.

It will probably become a bubble that will soon pop. Schafer game will probably be great, and everyone will be "omg, itz heaven", but then the rotten ones will start to appear...people will go back to waiting for the game to come out, kickstarts will no longer reach the goals and everything will go back to normal, except for some guys that played well and will always be able to crowdfund.

But if this bubble spams a couple of developers that manage to live doing great "simple" games like they did in the 80's/90's, it's more than worth it.

Besides, I can't wait to see all the bullshit that IGN and Kotaku will start doing, desperate as their reviews loose purpose.

 

[Infinitron]

except for some guys that played well and will always be able to crowdfund.

Exactly. And if this thing manages to reveal these people and allows them to thrive, then it will have been worth it.

 

[Jaesun]

Was their any mention that this would be an isometric view and turn based?

Like we really need yet another shitty Post Apocalypse action game.

 

[villain of the story]

It's interesting that 90s was such a cultivating period that a lot of people managed to produce such good games, with developers delivering regardless of their age, background and preferences in gaming. I guess it's kind of absurd to expect them to make anything of similar quality ever again. The time has changed, market has changed and most importantly, they have changed. And no one to carry the torch.

 

[MisterStone]

I think he'd take our money and make a shitty game with it. That Bard's Tale game he made about 10 years ago looked horrible.

 

[Menckenstein]

George Broussard's going to crowdsource for a Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure sequel.

 

[almondblight]

~snip~

This. The same developers that were telling us the reasons why the old games wouldn't work anymore, are no trying to talk them up because they think they can get some money that way. Why the hell would anyone give them money? I'd much rather give people like VD, the Eschalon guys, Vic Davis, the KotC guys, etc. money, since they're _already_ working on games that look good, not just talking it up to try to get some crowd funding. Also, I'm gonna bet the money would go much, much further with these guys. 200k would just be more bloom in the Obsidian or Fargo game, but for one of these indie guys, it would be enough for them to work full time on gaming for a few years.

You don't need a team of 30 people to make a good RPG. If these studios were interested in making an old-school game, they probably could as a side project for a modest investment. If they're not, give the money to the people that are.

 

[MMXI]

Update: It's just been announced and a page is now up on Kickstarter. Start pledging money, guys!

Here's the preliminary box art:

 

[LeStryfe79]

Eventually, this kind of funding will be the legitimate way of the future. Right now, it's still too early to tell, and I'm sensing a midlife crisis with Fargo here.

 

[Renegen]

I find it quite funny that Brian beat Obsidian for the RPG Kickstarter money, I wonder how Obsidian now feels about their possible proposal. I won't donate a cent to Brian Fargo but I will follow the game.

 

[Luzur]

Baldur's Gate III and Might and Magic 10 fund raising = TAEK MA MONIE DEAVS

which reminds me, why have no fans ever tried a GFX update on that game like they did with Ultima 4?