Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #53: The End Is Coming; Huge Beta Update on Steam

[JarlFrank]

100% digital environment would be shit.

I always buy physical copies. Always. Paying for a download is just weird, somehow.

 

[crawlkill]

100% digital environment would be shit.

I always buy physical copies. Always. Paying for a download is just weird, somehow.

"I always buy cave paintings. Papyrus just seems weird." Your ludditism will not inform the future, and you'd do well to break out of the habit now. Please, explain why paying for a download is weird. You prefer a clumsy, breakable physical object that has to be shipped to you at remarkable societal cost, then clutters your home? You're not paying for "a download." You're paying for -the effort of creation.- What the fuck does the format matter? Convenience should rule, and guess what? It already does. People like you hold back the future--the present, really--and you should be fucking ashamed.

jesus christ you're an Amazon self-publisher and you can say this who are you Kleiner

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I think that Wasteland 2 still needs at least 2-3 months,

Well, that's troubling.

I doubt inXile can afford to fund Wasteland 2 past September, partially because they really need those people on ToN, partially because they've already spent double what they got on Kickstarter and I imagine that well's drying up, contrary to statements from their PR guy.

One thing that does worry me is that not only have they spent double of the monstrous amounts they got on Kickstarter (when Fargo initially stated that $700k would be sufficient), but I suspect they're exploiting many of their ancillary employees like sea and Brother None, who I suspect have to live well below poverty levels. Two resourceful and intelligent men being baited with a carrot on a stick who in my opinion could do much better in a sector that actually respects their labor where they could build a future for themselves.

It really shows you that midsized games with actual production values and polish are not sustainable on Kickstarter, and in order to keep the burn rate under control many people working for these studios will have to accept continuously poor wages as the "new normal". Which of course doesn't work when the people grow a bit older and want to found a family, meaning there will be continuous instability and high staff turnover.

Imagine what's going to happen now that the Kickstarter euphoria is gone and cynicism has set in, and these people with notoriety making mid-sized games on Kickstarter need ever bigger budgets for their new projects and new sources of cheap labor, and the projects always need a year or year and half delay representing considerable additional costs. At some point the bubble will pop and I think it will end in a lot of chaos and tears, like a Ponzi scheme, when people are tired of the various irritants, and stupid extremely expensive pledge rewards.

 

[Infinitron]

Brother None sea

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Last thing we heard Brother None was touring around the world promoting the game, at least Fargo makes life in the sweatshop fairly interesting.

Imagine what's going to happen now that the Kickstarter euphoria is gone and cynicism has set in, and these people with notoriety making mid-sized games on Kickstarter need ever bigger budgets for their new projects and new sources of cheap labor, and the projects always need a year or year and half delay representing considerable additional costs. At some point the bubble will pop and I think it will end in a lot of chaos and tears, like a Ponzi scheme, when people are tired of the various irritants, and stupid extremely expensive pledge rewards.

Cheer up HHR, the world's not going to end because a few games were made on kickstarter. Another way of looking at it is that because of KS the likes of Obsidian, Inxile, Larian will now own IP that in the past would belong to publishers. Every copy Larian sells after covering their costs now is profit for them, not a publisher.

And if you make a successful game I believe you'll raise just as much if not more on kickstarter in future. If Larian did a DOS2 kickstarter I'm sure they'd make more than $1m.

Surely there are more pressing issues for you to worry about, like the dangers to civilisation from wheat and homosexuals?

 

[Brother None]

I love travelling, though I'm not used to staying in hotels everywhere, heh, never stayed in a hotel before I started working at inXile, always been more of a backpacking/youth hostel/hitchhiking/camping kinda guy. It's nice tho. I liked Munich, we kinda toured it yesterday, seems like a nice city. Sitting here in Brian's presentation now, heh.

Brother None sea

What is it, like international make shit up week? Fargo never said $700K is sufficient, our/their initial goal was $1M (with some money of Fargo put in), but then we're simply talking about a completely different game. As for wages, when I started with inXile I negotiated my salary directly with Brian & Matt and I am happy with it, it's good for a starter and in the right range for someone with my job description & experience (though it suffers a bit under USD-EUR conversion rates but that is what it is). I'm not the type to fall for the carrot on a stick bullshit, though it is common in this industry, but inXile doesn't work that way, and as people have noticed the growth opportunities here are very real if you prove yourself.

That said, we do exploit sea. But let's be honest here, he's just asking for it.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

You'll have to forgive me for still being relatively skeptical, but I'm not convinced that such a venture can function smoothly without something really having to give in regards to the biggest ongoing cost of any software company, one that's bigger than all the others combined. It is considerable, all the more so when there are very long delays and a big team (by indie standards) that comprises qualified veterans, which is why most gaming projects that you see on Kickstarter are from studios made out of young people who are closer to the "college guys in a garage" model willing to live frugally, or why you see stuff rushed out the door, like the Shadowrun DLC which is being remade into proper fuller form after sales for it have poured in.

It doesn't help that studios seeking out support on Kickstarter do so because they're from a precarious standpoint and need it because there is no other viable way to fund a game with relatively big production values and a small market. So long as this persists it's always going to keep being fragile.

 

[Roguey]

You can delay products forever and you'll always have a more refined product at the end. It's not being held because they decided more polish was necessary. If that was the reason they cited, it would be much less irritating. Yes, they'll still be working on it in the meantime, but the obnoxious part isn't the delay, it's the stated reason for the delay. "We have to make brick-and-mortar douches happy with our digital product in a digital market." It's recidivist and painful to hear. The implication that -all delays are good because lol bugs- is crazy. If the product needs another two weeks in development to wipe out gamebreaking technical problems, then it needs those two weeks, and needs to budget for them in their own terms, not in terms of "oh what a relief we promised some people who don't understand about the passage of time hard copies and oops it turns out that's a logistical nightmare so we scored ourselves some extra debugging days."

I don't care when the game's released. I want them to release it when they're satisfied. I DO care about the gun that physical retail still appears to hold to the head of what should absolutely be a 100% digital environment by now. That gun is frightening. It's the past plinking away at the future because it can't cope. So yeah, that disturbs me.

They're being selectively honest.

It's a role playing game. Of course it's going to benefit a lot from one or two extra weeks. Part of the reason why they're having these shipping difficulties is because it took them longer to make a gold master than they thought it would.

 

[JarlFrank]

100% digital environment would be shit.

I always buy physical copies. Always. Paying for a download is just weird, somehow.

"I always buy cave paintings. Papyrus just seems weird." Your ludditism will not inform the future, and you'd do well to break out of the habit now. Please, explain why paying for a download is weird. You prefer a clumsy, breakable physical object that has to be shipped to you at remarkable societal cost, then clutters your home? You're not paying for "a download." You're paying for -the effort of creation.- What the fuck does the format matter? Convenience should rule, and guess what? It already does. People like you hold back the future--the present, really--and you should be fucking ashamed.

jesus christ you're an Amazon self-publisher and you can say this who are you Kleiner

Yes, I actually do prefer a physical object that ends up in my collection at home rather than a purely digital product where I won't have a box to put somewhere. I especially dislike platforms like Steam where the game you buy will be bound to your account - I much prefer GoG over Steam as with GoG, you just get an installer that you can copy on your external HDD for backup and you have it forever, no need to be online to install it or use it, no need to be connected to an account, just install and play. It's almost like pirating, just that you pay some money to the devs.

Still, if I pay money for a game rather than pirating, I will always choose the boxed version if there is one available, even if the price is 20 bucks higher than that of the digital version.

And my book on amazon is paperback, not ebook, so this part of your argument is invalid

 

[FeelTheRads]

You prefer a clumsy, breakable physical object

Hurr, the old retarded argument. Why do you ask? Do you prefer a digital download that can be deleted and servers for it shut down?

that has to be shipped to you at remarkable societal cost

Societal? Wtf?

, then clutters your home?

Not your fucking business what I clutter my home with.

People like you hold back the future--the present, really--and you should be fucking ashamed.

Your future is shit, I'd rather not have it.

 

[Darkzone]

I have to say that, i prefer CB version on some games, and digital on others. For Wasteland 2 i have chosen the CB version while for Skyrim and so i thought that a steam 75% off sale would more than sufficient. The only one time that i thought that i can kickstart a game in a digital version and then upgrade the pledge if the Kickstarter was over was with Larian. Now im a littel bit of sorry that i did not pledged for the Kickstarter CB from the beginning. And yes a good looking CB adds more to a good game. And if one has enough space and a hobby room then a nice looking showcase with your chosen games and some merchandise products is nice to have. But i also have a second edition on GOG (naturally if they have it) of all my favorite games, so that i may any time download a version and install if i want to play it. So you may call me BI, because i'm both ways oriented in buying digital and physical products.
crawlkill you may have an extreme position, but it is not as progressive as you think. Because many products will be always available in physical form.
Shakespeare leather bound, on a quality paper with gold engraving is much more attractive than a digital version on a kindle, and looks nice in my walnut shelf and on my mahogany desk. And the leather feels very good in my hand, while i smell the paper, read a fantastic monolog and taste a nice old Connemara Malt.

 

[JarlFrank]

And collector's editions are still economically very viable, as even overpriced 100+ euro CEs sell pretty well. People like having physical goods they can place on their shelf.

 

[sea]

Yes, I actually do prefer a physical object that ends up in my collection at home rather than a purely digital product where I won't have a box to put somewhere. I especially dislike platforms like Steam where the game you buy will be bound to your account - I much prefer GoG over Steam as with GoG, you just get an installer that you can copy on your external HDD for backup and you have it forever, no need to be online to install it or use it, no need to be connected to an account, just install and play. It's almost like pirating, just that you pay some money to the devs.

Still, if I pay money for a game rather than pirating, I will always choose the boxed version if there is one available, even if the price is 20 bucks higher than that of the digital version.
And my book on amazon is paperback, not ebook, so this part of your argument is invalid

I like physical boxed copies too, but the value is more sentimental and emotional than practical. It's more likely the disc melts in the sun/my house burns down/etc. than a digital retailer like Steam goes out of business. I'll buy collector's editions for games I really like, but it's more as a collector's piece than because I'll actually use the disc. If I do, I'll make an ISO and never touch it again.

That said, we do exploit sea. But let's be honest here, he's just asking for it.

Beat me harder, daddy, I like the pain.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

The thing is that physical editions are cheaply and poorly made, it's not worth it to "collect" them anymore.

 

[crawlkill]

Yes, I actually do prefer a physical object that ends up in my collection at home rather than a purely digital product where I won't have a box to put somewhere

then you're either damaged or evil. do you also only read news from physical sources? hashtag ijustaskedthatquestiononaninternetforumandimnotsureoftheanswerthismustbe1989

Societal? Wtf?

Yes. Societal. It's a word. You typed it, so you saw that your browser's spellchecker didn't underline it. Regardless of the sometimes-minor sometimes-crippling cost that shipping has to individuals, the -societal- (your vocabulary is growing every day!) cost of moving a bunch of bullshit physically around the planet is huge. It's an unthinkable amount of productivity and fuel that could be better spent -anywhere else.- Is that too sophisticated a concept for you?

Your future is shit, I'd rather not have it.

Learn to love it, cunt, because it's your future, too.

Piracy ensures that it does not fucking matter if Valve or GoG go out of business. Their games will always be available. I can, at this very moment, go find an illegally distributed copy of the 1985 Nine Princes in Amber game, which I'd be stunned if more than a thousand people on Earth had ever even heard of. Digital distribution does not impose a lifespan on games, and you don't deserve the meat you're made of if you bluster that it does. Own up: You're an obsessive who likes to have his toys all in a row on his special shelf. That's fine, but the world doesn't need to support your obsession, and it won't continue to for much longer.

I just thought Wasteland would be better than playing into your spergy, spergy hands.

we're rapidly approaching an era where the only physical goods that matter are dildos. I'm right alongside dildos. the only reasonable use for a hard copy of Wasteland 2 is if you need to shove it up your ass, in which case, get some better kinks, baby.

 

[Decado]

Yeah. YEAH!

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

That's fine, but the world doesn't need to support your obsession, and it won't continue to for much longer.

The "world" will support anything that people are prepared to pay for. It just won't be the dominant distribution model any longer, but a more limited and expensive niche.

People still buy oil paintings and vinyl records, even though most images and audio tracks are now digital.

If it takes a $150 kickstarter tier to make a physical box worthwhile to produce so be it, there are people who will pay as recent kickstarters have demonstrated.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Piracy ensures that it does not fucking matter if Valve or GoG go out of business. Their games will always be available. I can, at this very moment, go find an illegally distributed copy of the 1985 Nine Princes in Amber game, which I'd be stunned if more than a thousand people on Earth had ever even heard of.

But I thought disks break and explode and cut your face and kill your kids? I suppose Nine Princes in Amber* must have been released in digital only to avoid such a fate and still be available, huh?

That's fine, but the world doesn't need to support your obsession, and it won't continue to for much longer.

If I pay for it, it will support it. You don't like it, I don't really care.

* I have the box, btw. Enjoy your shitty download.

 

[crawlkill]

And people will not continue to pay for it for long, and that's a great blessing.

* I have the box, btw. Enjoy your shitty download.

So to you what matters is--the delivery method? Because I'm p sure the content is the same either way, dude. O GOOD THING I HAVE THIS BOX. again: only matters if you need it as a dildo. enjoy your shitty shipping and handling, your extra quarters gone into having an -idea- delivered to you physically, your retrograde economics. you are the song that ends the earth. fortunately, you won't be sung for long.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Boys, he have captain planet among us

 

[crawlkill]

You're no Tim Curry, sister.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yes, I actually do prefer a physical object that ends up in my collection at home rather than a purely digital product where I won't have a box to put somewhere

then you're either damaged or evil.

 

[Darkzone]

Regardless of the sometimes-minor sometimes-crippling cost that shipping has to individuals, the -societal- (your vocabulary is growing every day!) cost of moving a bunch of bullshit physically around the planet is huge. It's an unthinkable amount of productivity and fuel that could be better spent -anywhere else. .... and you don't deserve the meat you're made of if you bluster that it does. Own up: You're an obsessive who likes to have his toys all in a row on his special shelf.

Ohh this sounds like a serious anger issues. Like some vegan eco terrorist short cutting before exploding. Honestly if you would live beside me i would already prepared some kind of defence for my wife and children.
But let me address this, this way:
Do you know how much a electric dildo uses up, electricity? Think about the environment. Batteries contain metals that are poisonous for the earth lifeforms.
Also a computer eats also much electricity, even more if you have a dedicated graphic card. How about a good book or Chess or " Mensch ärgere dich nicht", instead of wasting precious electricity on computer games. A good thriller book, becomes better if you do not know the solution, and you prevent yourself from acquiring the solution by tearing out the last pages. You can read and read it over and over again and try to figure it out who was the murder.
He are a civilisation based on Hunters and Gatherers, and Gatherers collect. Some collect stamps, some computer games and others anger issues.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[crawlkill]

Do you know how much a electric dildo uses up, electricity?

I prefer my cock meat, thanks.

But welcome to completely missing the point! The idea isn't -giving up luxuries.- It's -asking yourself why you value what you do.- If you think the important part of a game is the box it comes in, you really need to get medicated.