Development Info Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #20: Attributes and Skills

[Alex]

Yeah, I guess I understand why swim and climb disappeared. They won't put swimming and climbing in the game. Joking aside, they probably won't as perhaps it would have been too much of a bother to make all the animations and shit required for an 3D iso game with rotatable camera for climbing and swimming. It was easy in W1 as it was a top down "symbolic" perspective with text descriptions. But then again, hasn't Fargo mentioned as a C&C example salvation of boy from drowning?
(...snip)

Hopefully, there will be swimming and climbing, but I think this is so ass backwards to be ridiculous. Plenty of games have the option of either allowing a wide range of movement skills r having detailed 3D graphics, and time and time again, they always choose the graphics! It is like you went to buy a new car and choose the one with a good paint job but a guzzling engine that doesn't go very fast and requires you to be alone if you are going uphill.

How do any of the travel/survival skills work in RoA3? Do you just randomly encounter herbs when walking around outside? (Only have played BoD + Star Trail)

Too early to say with toaster repair, but since it's such a meme now apparently maybe Fargo will completely overexploit the skill and have WL2's plot be about an uprising of evil toaster and other appliance-themed robots.

No need to license, necessarily. Plenty of open systems. Though GURPS definetely would not be bad for this type of game. Going to Sean Punch with a "we would like this, these are our terms" and on a no just pick an open system you can control yourself.

I dunno if GURPS is such a good match for Ken St. Andre and Mr. Stackpole would be such a good fit. They seem to like having more fast and loose resolution to different situations that may be unique to the situation at hand. This might go against the more standarizd approach Gurps takes, where exceptions are really exceptions. I mean, of course they could get some benefit from GURPS sourcebooks, but truth is that they still can (those books frequently discuss stuff outside mere systems concerns).

About all this talk of skills. I think it is nice the game will have skills with different degrees of usefulness. Exploring and seeing how these different skills can be sed, as opposed to expecting to always being able to make do with what you have, is an improvement, in my opinion. I do agree, however, that each skill should play a somewhat unique role in the game, so that if I choose outdoorsman instead of taster repair, the game will play significantly differently.

About the backer skill, I hope it is Combat Shooting.

 

[Jaesun]

I wonder if they would ever sit down and do a PNP session with this system, like the BIS guys always did.

 

[St. Toxic]

Looks like someone's been carrying bricks again.

cmonn you know it was a good bad/good cop work there we did.

I just think it makes for a good expression when someone isn't "getting it". Like Awor said, people who do physical labor can't be intellectuals.

I.e, all bricks and no cement make Hiver a dull boy.

 

[Excommunicator]

In order to do that, we tried to shoehorn in Expertise for the Agility/Dexterity attribute. I was hoping that the definition (which kinda worked...right?!?

) would suffice but it was met with quite a bit of deserved resistance.

Maybe you should not be so quick to laugh and roll your eyes next time, Infinitron (& those who brofisted the comment) These design methodologies are rarely as immune to criticism as your attitudes often suggest.

 

[hiver]

Looks like someone's been carrying bricks again.

cmonn you know it was a good bad/good cop work there we did.

I just think it makes for a good expression when someone isn't "getting it". Like Awor said, people who do physical labor can't be intellectuals.

yaaah

I.e, all bricks and no cement make Hiver a dull boy.

as rambo said: intellectual - cant dig a dich. turns into a bitch. has an enourmous itch. and an ego switch. ina ditch.

 

[Roguey]

Yeah...It's a PA game after all.

I've yet to play a post-apocalyptic game with shooting where bullets were rare. FFS there's a bullet "swagging"(sic) skill. You can literally craft your own bullets.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah...It's a PA game after all.

I've yet to play a post-apocalyptic game with shooting where bullets were rare. FFS there's a bullet "swagging"(sic) skill. You can literally craft your own bullets.

Pretty much. These games usually have you fighting at the beginning but fairly quickly you gain all resources you could need.

That doesn't mean it has to be like that though, Roguey.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I've yet to play a post-apocalyptic game with shooting where bullets were rare.

HURRRRRR Fallout and Wasteland didn't do it so it won't be done ever.

I'd say there's much bigger chances of ammo being rare in W2 than that FAILURE of Sawyer ever designing a system that doesn't SUCK, let alone one better than D&D.

 

[Excidium]

Yeah, what they said. Because it's usually done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right. Not really counting on it, but scarcity of resources is central to a PA setting.

 

[tuluse]

Yeah...It's a PA game after all.

I've yet to play a post-apocalyptic game with shooting where bullets were rare. FFS there's a bullet "swagging"(sic) skill. You can literally craft your own bullets.

That seems like a leap. If it was a crafting skill, why not just call it crafting? Or smelting? Or something that makes sense? I'm thinking bullet swagging is going to be something else.

 

[St. Toxic]

Yeah, what they said. Because it's usually done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right. Not really counting on it, but scarcity of resources is central to a PA setting.

What if you made ammunition a standard wasteland currency? It'd be a choice between shooting some shit up or buying the shit you need. Of course, you have to worry about inflation to keep the pc as poor as possible, but I wouldn't mind seeing tons of bullets everywhere as long as their primary use wasn't just keeping your guns fed, but rather guaranteeing your long-term survival as a commodity exchanged for food, medicine and other vital supplies. Wouldn't that approach also drive the need to conserve ammo?

 

[tuluse]

Yeah, what they said. Because it's usually done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right. Not really counting on it, but scarcity of resources is central to a PA setting.

What if you made ammunition a standard wasteland currency? It'd be a choice between shooting some shit up or buying the shit you need. Of course, you have to worry about inflation to keep the pc as poor as possible, but I wouldn't mind seeing tons of bullets everywhere as long as their primary use wasn't just keeping your guns fed, but rather guaranteeing your long-term survival as a commodity exchanged for food, medicine and other vital supplies. Wouldn't that approach also drive the need to conserve ammo?

I don't see how this changes anything in a traditional cRPG economy where you can sell anything to any vendor anyways.

 

[St. Toxic]

I don't see how this changes anything in a traditional cRPG economy where you can sell anything to any vendor anyways.

You're kind of right, in that I'm already assuming that resources are scarce and not actually trying to solve the whole issue with my example. But, and this is the important part, it does allow the designers to eliminate worthless trade-only items, such as geld or kremkoins, in favor of items that you might actually have a use for and aren't as willing to trade in. I mean, I remember making a fortune on all the Rad-X I had managed to save up before I hit the Den in Fo1, but that's oversaturation for you.

There's also the obvious suggestion of a much higher trade-value added to ammunition, so that the exchange of superfluous armors and weapons, i.e junk, isn't enough to completely cover your expenses in acquiring it. However, if this were the case, the melee approach would have to be designed to be noticeably less effective than going in guns blazing, or the use of ranged combat might just be crippled too badly by the expenses involved. Though, maybe that is a more realistic scenario? Out of a group of, say, 5 wastelanders, a common setup could very well be 3 machete-wielding rapists, some dude with a handgun on its last clip but a mean left to back it up and a guy on overwatch with a rifle. The obvious trade-off when constructing nothing but melee characters might really just settle itself, with the challenge of the game increasing the further along you are and the effectiveness of melee-weapons and close-combat decreasing in response.

Just thinking out loud here, don't mind me.

 

[Roguey]

Yeah...It's a PA game after all.

I've yet to play a post-apocalyptic game with shooting where bullets were rare. FFS there's a bullet "swagging"(sic) skill. You can literally craft your own bullets.

That seems like a leap. If it was a crafting skill, why not just call it crafting? Or smelting? Or something that makes sense? I'm thinking bullet swagging is going to be something else.

First google search result for bullet swaging: http://www.corbins.com/intro.htm

1. Swaging uses room-temperature materials that can include solid, jacketed, or lead, plastic and powdered metals. The tools are a high pressure press that can flow the bullet materials without melting them, and diamond-lapped, high precision dies with matching punches that instantly give the materials their final dimensions (shape, caliber and even internal constructions) with no further processing, lubricating, or sizing.

Both casting and swaging are simple processes. Swaging is the most precise method of making a bullet. It is extremely fast, easy to learn, and has many additional advantages over casting.

They probably thought it'd sound cooler (and authentic). Of course they misspelled it (so much for authenticity!). Maybe they shoulda had some of those scientists proofreading their skill list, eh?

 

[ColCol]

Yeah...It's a PA game after all.

I've yet to play a post-apocalyptic game with shooting where bullets were rare. FFS there's a bullet "swagging"(sic) skill. You can literally craft your own bullets.

That seems like a leap. If it was a crafting skill, why not just call it crafting? Or smelting? Or something that makes sense? I'm thinking bullet swagging is going to be something else.

First google search result for bullet swaging: http://www.corbins.com/intro.htm

1. Swaging uses room-temperature materials that can include solid, jacketed, or lead, plastic and powdered metals. The tools are a high pressure press that can flow the bullet materials without melting them, and diamond-lapped, high precision dies with matching punches that instantly give the materials their final dimensions (shape, caliber and even internal constructions) with no further processing, lubricating, or sizing.

Both casting and swaging are simple processes. Swaging is the most precise method of making a bullet. It is extremely fast, easy to learn, and has many additional advantages over casting.

They probably thought it'd sound cooler. Of course they misspelled it.

Name must of came from the in-house scientists they hired....

 

[tuluse]

Huh, learn something everyday I guess. Thanks Roguey.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Name must of came from the in-house scientists they hired....

Good thing YOU know how to spell.

 

[hiver]

yay, spelling wars!

 

[Major_Blackhart]

http://super-nintendo-chalmers.ytmnd.com/

 

[Kz3r0]

First google search result for bullet swaging: http://www.corbins.com/intro.htm

1. Swaging uses room-temperature materials that can include solid, jacketed, or lead, plastic and powdered metals. The tools are a high pressure press that can flow the bullet materials without melting them, and diamond-lapped, high precision dies with matching punches that instantly give the materials their final dimensions (shape, caliber and even internal constructions) with no further processing, lubricating, or sizing.

Both casting and swaging are simple processes. Swaging is the most precise method of making a bullet. It is extremely fast, easy to learn, and has many additional advantages over casting.

They probably thought it'd sound cooler (and authentic). Of course they misspelled it (so much for authenticity!). Maybe they shoulda had some of those scientists proofreading their skill list, eh?

Come on, it's an obvious pun between swaging and swag, they are just using funny names, Wasteland style.

 

[OSK]

First google search result for bullet swaging: http://www.corbins.com/intro.htm

1. Swaging uses room-temperature materials that can include solid, jacketed, or lead, plastic and powdered metals. The tools are a high pressure press that can flow the bullet materials without melting them, and diamond-lapped, high precision dies with matching punches that instantly give the materials their final dimensions (shape, caliber and even internal constructions) with no further processing, lubricating, or sizing.

Both casting and swaging are simple processes. Swaging is the most precise method of making a bullet. It is extremely fast, easy to learn, and has many additional advantages over casting.

They probably thought it'd sound cooler (and authentic). Of course they misspelled it (so much for authenticity!). Maybe they shoulda had some of those scientists proofreading their skill list, eh?

I don't think it was a spelling mistake. Here's the first Google search result for swagging:

swagging
Swagging, the motion of which you do sexual actions. Swagging while dancing of doggy styling/dry humping a girl from the back in a rhythmic motion. Swagging by yourself is the motion of which a guy masturbates, in this he preforms in a rhythmic motion also.

Yo i was swagging that girl so hard yesterday on the dance floor.

Clearly, this skill will allow you to shoot sexual bullets.

 

[ColCol]

Name must of came from the in-house scientists they hired....

Good thing YOU know how to spell.

Um, I didn't comment on their spelling, nor is that a spelling mistake.

 

[Murk]

swagging is a clear reference to how much swag the character has, with levels range from novice to swagging on infinity thousand.

refer to this video for further information on swag, and the having there-of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ySGblQmT9Y

EDIT: OSK beat me to it, right on brutha