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Nobody is disputing the claim that JA2 should be the benchmark for turn based combat. However, because JA2s focus is combat, it can't be used as a benchmark for an RPG that also needs strong exploration and C&C. It's not a matter of the developers being able to do that in a RPG that isn't almost exclusively combat-oriented but a matter of would whether or not it would be wise for the developers to do that.

Edit: JA2 and ToEE are the prime examples of mondblutian RPGs: games with awesome turn-based combat but that I would rather classify as turn-based tactics games with RPG elements than turn-based RPGs because they are lacking when it comes to exploration and C&C (when compared to Fallout 2 or Arcanum).

You are right, of course, JA2 combat would be too slow for most people considering the dribble that they have been consuming over the last 10 years.

There have already been people asking for "fast" turn based combat on the Wasteland 2 boards... so I assume we will be lucky if we get something as complex as Fallout 1 or 2.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up getting something that is more phase based than turn based.

Every time I go back to JA2 and the 1.13 mod I am just amazed at how much fun that game remains. I just hope that before I die I get to experience a game that is essentially a combination of JA2 and Planescape Torment. And in truth I am more likely to go back to JA2 then Planescape as the actual combat in Planescape is dreadful... the terrible game play is what keeps me from finishing most modern RPGs. I don't mind the cheesy writing and me-too gimmicks of the new RPGs as much as I do the terrible combat game that I have to suffer through.

Yeah, well dude said he wants to make this game for oldschool fans. Now, I can't believe that anyone, much less old school fans (us) would consider combat in JA2 slow, or boring... And that anyone not retarded would object to such combat. Something more complex than Fallout's but a bit less complex than JA2, so the focus of the game doesn't become combat, like in JA. We must fight the good fight. Now or never! I won't allow a bunch of retards to spoil this only chance in what, ten fuckin years, with their "input"! House, romances, wtf? Were they blind when the man announced the project? Isometric, turn based, oldschool? I'm shocked that these words alone haven't scared the retards off...

GB: Unfortunately, role-playing games have lost much of their original identity in recent years, thanks in part to the popularity of first-person action RPGs. How do you convince a newer or younger RPG fan who has grown accustomed to the action-focused titles to give Wasteland 2 a shot?

Brian: Well here is the beauty of fan funding... we don't have to convince some younger RPG player of anything. I am making this game for the wonderful fans who put their money behind us and not some nebulous group of new people. Let's make the game they all expect and let the chips fall where they may. There is just no way I'm going to consider anything that could let down the core.

What happened to the "Wasteland 2 Forum Codex Vigilance" thread http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wasteland-2-forum-codex-vigilance.70308?

I didnt play JA myself, so i cant speak in detail about it. So if any of you who did want to add about its details and mechanics, feel free.
I already had one or two posters adding a bit about it in "Turn based combat" thread, but its better if more people add a post or two.

-edit-
Yeah, i was just reading it. Guess it was deleted... but i didnt even manage to read that last bit whole, although i agree with BN in what i managed to catch.

Jeeze I hope they find a good TB RPG engine that is ready to use. Coding and scripting an RPG in that short a time, would be impossible.

Wasn't the Codex policy to retardo threads but never delete anything? What changed?

I guess the grey eminence Brother None was displeased with our behavior and used his connections to bypass the official rules.

People clamouring for JA2 style combat need to quit it with that shit. A large part of Wasteland's charm was the fact it recreated a pen & paper experience with remarkable fidelity, and that included a combat system suitable for p&p. If WL2 is to be a true sequel and not a pointless sack of shit it needs to retain that aspect. Just say no to systems that would be clunky around a table with friends.

Personally I'd like to see a highly abstracted system along the lines of classic Trav's range bands or FATE3's zone system (esp Diaspora's rendering of same), although the latter wouldn't translate well (ie. at all) to a CRPG.

EDIT: fast turn based is an eminently sensible option. Animations off, overview screen that summarises what happened that round, equals fast with no loss of depth. Autoresolve for trash mobs is also an essential feature.

We'll need an official confirmation for this. This would be a quite bad way for inXile to start this whole thing: having threads deleted on third-party sites because they don't agree with what people are saying.

Indeed. Just starting to delete threads even without further notice would suck. Especially on the codex.

Yeah, the "why not have JA2 combat?" stuff is dumb. It's a Wasteland sequel, not MY DREAM GAME WITH JA2 COMBAT, TORMENT DIALOGUE, ARCANUM SOUNDTRACK AND FALLOUT FREEDOM OH GOD ITS HEAVAN I DONATED FOR IT SO MAKE IT HAPPEN FARGOTH.

It was swallowed by the darkness...it's not even in Retardo. Unless one of the last few pages had a post threatening to kill Fargo's kids unless he adds JA2 combat to the game, I don't see the reason.

Then again, maybe it's just Jaesun with his thread-merging shenanigans.

Oh don't tell me the Prosper got loose again!

Fuck.

Well it's obvious it'll have turn based combat similar to Fallout. So JA2 combat is a valid argument. Of course they won't make it exactly as JA2, but if they want to improve Fallout like combat, they should look up to JA. Or is there something wrong with this argument?

Right now they seem to be more into locking and deleting threads than arguments, so the outlook is turning quite bleak, quite fast.

BN locked a tranny thread after visiting us. He even said it was stupid (or something similar). That's not how you handle things if you don't want to offend those whiny bitches who demand equal representation of sexual minorities in Wasteland 2. So all the evidence was erased, and the official reason for locking that thread says that we're just "too immature" to discuss such important topics

You mean here on the Codex? WTF is this shit?

Yeah: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wasteland-2-forum-codex-vigilance.70308 is gone, poof!

This thread, started by TwinkieGorilla, has been deleted. Deleted by TwinkieGorilla, Today at 1:14 AM, Reason: eh.
Mystery solved.

Its better that those threads are locked. There was no purpose to them anyway after first dozen pages.
But they could have just retarded codex thread...

Anyway, neither tactics or JA will go in as complete systems but apart from hoping they will make something even better and thus better to play, i hope they will take on at least some aspects of those systems.
So its good to talk about them.
And im pretty sure we are not going to twist anyone in inXile team to turn the whole game into tactical combat game and downgrade other aspects.

-edit-
well, good move by twinkie i think.

What faggotry is this, Twinkie?

Thanks Zed! At least we know Twinkie deleted it. I don't see a reason why he would do that, but at least we have some info.

Bah, my wonderful conspiracy theory!

Yeah Twinkie. I was amusing myself reading about the easily amused guy! The nerve.