Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Executer]

I congratulate you Outlander just when I thought I couldn't be more pessimistic about RPGs you managed to open my mind to new levels of decline. Atleast I can watch ME3 fans complain about how much RPGs have declined in that space of time.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

mmmm, we still have players who have played the golden age of rpgs or are at least receptive to them who in turn become independent developers, if by some crazy fluke they all die off the cumulative backlog I will have amassed by then will carry me through

since you don't need big production resources to do good squad based stuff/dungeon crawlers/roguelikes I'm not bothered on the gameplay front,
a) those are made to be extremely replayable
b) fucksake you can download a whole bunch for free right now

narrative wise suck it up and go read a book or take up playing interactive fiction
be honest if you really exclusively love them narratives so damn much how did the frequency of those rpgs even come close to satisfying you, compare this to the amount of books you can read in one year and not come close to running out

once again you will do well to have more than just gaming as your hobby

and if nothing else remember that good strategy games have more c&c than the very best rpgs

 

[bminorkey]

you are the james joyce of forum posting,

 

[Don Peste]

Don't forget about the Warsaw Pact countries. I'm sure they can bring us some good RPGs.

And only if North Korea made games...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves.

 

[thesisko]

They also came from a time when most games could get away with being 2D, having complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves. They're excellent games but in a lot of ways, the games industry and expectations for games has moved on. The obsession with ease of use, streamlining/simplification, cinematic cutscenes, Hollywood-style storytelling and moving away from tabletop-style rules means that the current RPG market and its fans are different from what they were 10-15 years ago.

Sea, I am dissapoint. It's not been that long since last NWN2 expansions and DA:Origins, and I wouldn't exactly say that the interfaces of BG/Fallout were much more complicated than those. Hell, Fallout 1 has a simpler interface than New Vegas. Also, Fallout 1/2 only sold a few 100K copies if I'm not misinformed.

The RPG fanbase hasn't so much "moved on" as it's been mislabelled upon the millions of console gamers that consider Skyrim and ME to be finest examples of the genre. I'm sure a "traditional" RPG could sell Fallout 1/2 numbers, if not significantly more. No, not enough for a next-gen "have to sell 3M or flush our whole studio down the toilet"-game, but the market clearly has room for other types of games.

If anything, the market is a far better place for those kinds of games as it's possible to market and deliver them to your fans without spending a fortune on advertising and sucking retailer's cocks.

My prediction: Wasteland 2 will sell more than Fallout 1&2 combined.

 

[Infinitron]

Was it bad when it was time of Fallout and Baldur's gate, and when they were considered relatively "mainstream"?

I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".

 

[Zarniwoop]

I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".

Just proving that gaming journalists haven't declined, they've always been trendfag morons.

 

[sea]

They also came from a time when most games could get away with being 2D, having complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves. They're excellent games but in a lot of ways, the games industry and expectations for games has moved on. The obsession with ease of use, streamlining/simplification, cinematic cutscenes, Hollywood-style storytelling and moving away from tabletop-style rules means that the current RPG market and its fans are different from what they were 10-15 years ago.

Sea, I am dissapoint. It's not been that long since last NWN2 expansions and DA:Origins, and I wouldn't exactly say that the interfaces of BG/Fallout were much more complicated than those. Hell, Fallout 1 has a simpler interface than New Vegas. Also, Fallout 1/2 only sold a few 100K copies if I'm not misinformed.

The RPG fanbase hasn't so much "moved on" as it's been mislabelled upon the millions of console gamers that consider Skyrim and ME to be finest examples of the genre. I'm sure a "traditional" RPG could sell Fallout 1/2 numbers, if not significantly more. No, not enough for a next-gen "have to sell 3M or flush our whole studio down the toilet"-game, but the market clearly has room for other types of games.

If anything, the market is a far better place for those kinds of games as it's possible to market and deliver them to your fans without spending a fortune on advertising and sucking retailer's cocks.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. What I meant to say was that while there is a traditional RPG audience, it's not really enough to sell millions upon millions that most publishers expect or want. Until the mainstream games industry realizes it can't continue exclusively with the "throw tons of money at something and hope it works to make up for everything else that flops" method of producing games, we aren't going to see publishers supporting those sorts of titles.

Those fans of more traditional RPGs haven't "moved on" so to speak, but there is a whole new generation of RPG fans who are used to the more modern titles of BioWare and Bethesda, and that's the new target market publishers are aiming for.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Who the fuck wants traditional CRPGs to become mainstream anyway? I don't think a single person waiting for Wasteland 2 is thinking "gee, I really like this Wasteland thing, but what if it was a shooter instead."

Well, if you see, the Wasteland 2 suggestions page, many of the people anticipating this game are not far off from that description.

 

[General Maxson]

They also came from a time when most games could get away with being 2D, having complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves. They're excellent games but in a lot of ways, the games industry and expectations for games has moved on. The obsession with ease of use, streamlining/simplification, cinematic cutscenes, Hollywood-style storytelling and moving away from tabletop-style rules means that the current RPG market and its fans are different from what they were 10-15 years ago.

Sea, I am dissapoint. It's not been that long since last NWN2 expansions and DA:Origins, and I wouldn't exactly say that the interfaces of BG/Fallout were much more complicated than those. Hell, Fallout 1 has a simpler interface than New Vegas. Also, Fallout 1/2 only sold a few 100K copies if I'm not misinformed.

The RPG fanbase hasn't so much "moved on" as it's been mislabelled upon the millions of console gamers that consider Skyrim and ME to be finest examples of the genre. I'm sure a "traditional" RPG could sell Fallout 1/2 numbers, if not significantly more. No, not enough for a next-gen "have to sell 3M or flush our whole studio down the toilet"-game, but the market clearly has room for other types of games.

If anything, the market is a far better place for those kinds of games as it's possible to market and deliver them to your fans without spending a fortune on advertising and sucking retailer's cocks.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. What I meant to say was that while there is a traditional RPG audience, it's not really enough to sell millions upon millions that most publishers expect or want. Until the mainstream games industry realizes it can't continue exclusively with the "throw tons of money at something and hope it works to make up for everything else that flops" method of producing games, we aren't going to see publishers supporting those sorts of titles.

hose fans of more traditional RPGs haven't "moved on" so to speak, but there is a whole new generation of RPG fans who are used to the more modern titles of BioWare and Bethesda, and that's the new target market publishers are aiming for.

There surely must be a piece of the market pie for fans of the more traditional rpgs. As it was shown by Wasteland 2 kickstarter. It's just that most of the publishers aren't interested in making Fallout 2 kind of money anymore, everybody wants bazillion $$$.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".

Just proving that gaming journalists haven't declined, they've always been trendfag morons.

Yep. On the other hand, gaming journalism snicker wasn't as prestigious pff as it is now, so at least they were more modest about their retardation ohoho omigawd

 

[Machocruz]

Bros, you live in a world where a gaming site will ask people what the most important games of all time are, and you will get at least 40 mentions of Angry Birds and Wii Sports, and maybe 5 of any Ultima game. Yeah.

 

[Father Walker]

Bros, you live in a world where a gaming site will ask people what the most important games of all time are, and you will get at least 40 mentions of Angry Birds and Wii Sports, and maybe 5 of any Bioware game. Yeah.

Fixed it for you.

Anyway, no need to be so post-apo guys.

 

[Cabazone]

Was it bad when it was time of Fallout and Baldur's gate, and when they were considered relatively "mainstream"?

It was considered mainstream because it was a small industry compared to what we have today. By today standard, fallout and baldur's gate aren't at all mainstream, they all have a small budget (a few millions) and try to reach a not-so-big crowd (people who was playing role playing game on PC at the time). I doubt any modern producer think a game who are OK with 400 000 units sold as mainstream.

 

[Renegen]

Publishers don't fund moderately profitable games, they just don't. They want huge hits. I'm tired of people saying RPGs are dead, they are not dead, and never will be, they are just not huge hits. In fact as some have pointed out, the hardcore RPG market has only been growing. Today you could probably hit 1 million copies sold. Wasteland 2 once it comes out will be very interesting for many different reasons.

 

[Cabazone]

I doubt the explanation is that simple. The problem is that the traditionnal RPG market is a dark zone. Producers don't know if it exist and if that the case, what are their characteristics. You can have clues, like internet claims on forum, but it's hard to say if a person screaming on a forum (and you have to know about the forum) represent only himself or a thousand silent people, it's hard to say if what that person telling he want is really what he would buy, etc. Same goes with Wasteland 2 bakers : what the 60 000 bakers mean ? 60 000 potential constant buyers ? More ? Less ? Will they even enjoy the game and buy the next ? Producer just don't know what are the sizes of the market, what budget game on it should have, what they should be to be successful, how to market it, etc. Even if you believe the market exist (which most producers don't even think), it's a risk, you can have to try a few time before have it right, and when you have what you perceive to be a surer bet on the other hand, you generally chose the second option.

 

[Wise Emperor]

It wont be last breath - I think the best comparison to video game industry, is music industry. Everybody will say that good music was made in 19th century, 60's, 70's, etc - based on preferences - and now we swim in pool of crap. Still there are some great genre revival, obscure bands/composers - they are not just part of mainstream, you don't hear them in radio/tv, but they exist. You need to just dig deeper and spend more time for searching. People will always complain that new ones are much worse, but seriously isn't their opinion based(and biased) on cool childhood/teenage memories? Would Grimrock be much worse if released in the times of Eye of the Beholder?

 

[Cabazone]

Bullshit, there is ton of stuff i was loving as a child or a teeneger that I despise today. The reasons I love Fallout today are different to the reasons i was loving it when i was 12. People still discovers and love Arcanum or planescape torment in 2012 (in fact, probably more than at the time). The values we attach on a cultural object is more complex than "loving it during that period of life, so considered it to be the best thing ever until the end of time".

 

[Wise Emperor]

I replay Arcanum, Torment mostly for some nice memories, maybe art, plot and discovering things that I didn't understand as a teenager. Then I rarely finish those games after first playthrough, concluding the game in middle of it.

Maybe I'm easily bored and need new thrills.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".

On the other hand:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/end-of-an-era.70444/

 

[Dragula]

Bump. There has to be new quotes to add.

 

[SCO]

No ja2 style multiple elevations?

 

[Infinitron]

inXile staff post on the forum!
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2273

There will be a blend of active and passive skill use. You shouldn't need to manage your party with an Excel sheet, but at the same time we do want you to need to manage various aspects of your party. For example, water will be vital (as it should in a post-apocalyptic environment) and there should be times when you need to decide if you should travel together or split your party up and have the fastest who can purify water and find food head into the wilderness as your team continues on to a time critical distress call, and then hope they can catch up with supplies before the party is consumed by the desert. There should be hard choices with severe consequences.

The last thing we want is a form of Dungeon Siege where once you start, all you have to do is keep moving forward to finish. Hopefully, this game won't be about getting the quests done the fastest and gloating to your friends that you finished the game. Hopefully, you'll be faced with challenges that need to be dealt with, not quests to be completed. If the forums are filled with "What did you do here..." discussions rather than "This is how you complete this quest..." summaries, then we did our job in making Wasteland a proper 'Old School' RPG.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

That sounds fucking awesome. Quests with time-limits plus the need to manage your scarce ressources could bring a nice dynamic into this game. I can't remember any RPG requirering me to split up my party since Realms of Arkania. Major