Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Ulminati]

From the comments on google moderator to my suggestion not to have NPCs main trait being whether they were gay or not, in response to butthurt LGBT people:

"The only sentimental relationship you need in a post-apocalyptic world is with your double-barrel shotgun, not with the queer neighbor."
Madball357, Buenos Aires

of Brazil

 

[Outlander]

A modern roleplaying fan opens Kotaku
"InXile kickstarts an RPG which is a sequel to Wasteland, a father of Fallout!"
Modern roleplaying fan: "Holy shit! A game like that awesome Bethesda's game? RPG no less! I must find their forums!"
Modern roleplaying fan finds Wasteland 2 forums.
Modern roleplaying fan: "I want romances, gay characters, marriages, kids and owning a house just like in a proper RPG. Please do not make characters killable and combat complex because that will detract from my roleplaying experience!"

You nailed it. Sadly.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Yeah. I think that's actually the only post of his I've ever agreed with. I almost got excited.

 

[Outlander]

From the comments on google moderator to my suggestion not to have NPCs main trait being whether they were gay or not, in response to butthurt LGBT people:

"The only sentimental relationship you need in a post-apocalyptic world is with your double-barrel shotgun, not with the queer neighbor."
Madball357, Buenos Aires

of Brazil

I'm that guy, and Buenos Aires is in Argentina, not Brazil.


But thanks anyway lol

 

[Sulimo]

I wonder how those people would play P&P RPG's.

"You meet a good-looking woman on the road, she eyes you sus-"
"IS SHE HOT? CAN I MARRY HER?"
"... John, please, stop doing that."
"IT IS INTEGRAL TO MY ROLE-PLAYING EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN SUCK IT."

 

[Stabwound]

I was going to ask why you requested a "Fallout-like char system" then remembered that you think 80s games are terrible and anyone who pretends to enjoy them is a poseur.

Anyway, Fargo seems pretty intent on making this thing in 18 months. I don't know if it'd even be possible to make really-deep-and-balanced tactical combat and crafting systems within that timeframe (ToEE was made in 19 months with 20 people and as you know they had enough time to implement a good-as-3.5-allows system but no time to make fun encounters). A few thousand certainly wouldn't be enough to cover it. Once we hit 1.25 million we get "more maps, more divergent stories and even more music" and at 1.5 we'd get "more environments, story elements, and characters" but no mention of system improvements. Maybe at a higher level, but I suspect the higher tiers will focus more on cosmetic stuff like graphics.

I'm also wary of the 18 month development cycle he talks about. For reference, Fallout 1 took 3 years and $3 million dollars from what I've read. That's enough to make one worry about Wasteland 2, especially considering the company designing the game. Fallout 1 started development in the mid 90's. Then again, Fallout 1 used a brand new, from scratch engine. Being able to license an existing engine and tweak it probably takes far, far less time than going form scratch.

However, from what BF has been saying, it seems like the entire storyline and world is mostly written already? Or maybe it's just the storyline. 6 months planning and 12 months development isn't much, and he seems deadset on getting it out in October 2013.

The last thing we'd need is this thing to be rushed out half-finished with no money to patch or finish it. I'll feel a lot more comfortable about this if the Kickstarter hits something like 3 million. The downside to Kickstarter is that you get the funding, and then you're on your own. Unless you setup some outside Paypal donations or something, you have to be a budgeting aspie to make sure your fixed budget lasts long enough to finish the game.

God, this is worrying.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

You have to take into consideration much of that money would go to press, publicity, marketing, talking heads, etc. That's a shit-ton. And something this project needn't worry itself with. So there's that, at least.

 

[Angelo85]

That Google Moderator thing is a gold mine, equally both towards incline and decline :D

If anyone feels like voting:

Combat model: Pause-able simultaneous real time action, that takes into account each characters initiative and weapon speed. Actions can be planned out far in advance, or you can react dynamically. It just makes sense, and is fun to play. Like JA:BiA

http://goo.gl/mod/DOol

Hire some guys from Troika Games.

http://goo.gl/mod/UJOo

Abandon Levels/leveling. Make Characters grow by doing, learning, practicing. Levels are an artificial constract, "me-too" in RPG world.

http://goo.gl/mod/8ySk

/e: Stabwound you worry too much bro, one day you might get a seizure if you continue to walk through life with that negative mindset of yours. Try to ease up and enjoy the beautiful downfall of humankind.

 

[Kz3r0]

Fallout 1 was made in the spare time from enthusiasts before going in production, Fargo said that the project is ready by twenty years, if I remember correctly.

 

[CrustyBot]

Abandon Levels/leveling. Make Characters grow by doing, learning, practicing. Levels are an artificial constract, "me-too" in RPG world.

http://goo.gl/mod/8ySk

Sounds like Darklands. Which has a fucking awesome character generation and progression system. Don't want it for Wasteland 2, but the concept itself is not as as it initially appears.

Of course, that said...

Levels are unncessary especially for a single player game. We just got used to them, but what do they really signify?-nothing. They break immersion (at least for me).

 

[sgc_meltdown]

I would like to remind my bro Sulimo that any hopeful Romeo of the dice and pencil would be committing to strenuous face to face bearded GM hot biological imperative back-and-forth with up to five of your gaming brothers passing judgement a metre away.

Unless you're a great roleplayer of course and so is your GM and when your characters finally marry everyone sheds tears at the table into their doritos, I'm not saying that's out of the question, it would definitely pale in comparison to mass effect in that case

The other alternative is to have a significant other in your gaming group and most experienced pnp rpg players know that is a recipe for gaming session decline

or if you're in felicia day's pnp rpg group

 

[Sulimo]

Thinking about it, that'd be rather awkward for the average biodrone. Still, why is there the need to turn every game in a dating sim? Japan makes shittons of them already, and if they're offended by pixel nipples they can just play one without hentai. No need to mess up RPG's to get your fake-relationship fix.

 

[Infinitron]

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=503&start=30

Holy crap! I can't even believe what I am reading. Registered just for this thread.

How is this even a debate? You guys want to play a Role-Playing-Game, don't you? What is Role-Playing exactly?
Well, you assume a role and act accordingly. Acting in a role means interacting with the environment. The environment has other people (also called NPCs). How do you interact with other people other then shooting them? Yes, you talk to them!

If you create the entire party you can't have interactions between your party members. And this makes them silent zombies without personality for the entire game (excluding the one character who does the talking to NPCs - he gets to show what person he is, through your choices). Anyone playing pen&paper RPGs? Imagine not being able to interact with the other party members.

This is the only reason I can see why the Icewind Dale series did poorly compared to the Baldur's Gate series. Essentially they were the same - only Baldur's Gate had characters, while Icewind Dale had custumizable chess pieces.

But apparently some of you want their team to STFU and just follow your orders. "God, I hate talking to people ... even in video games!" Amiright?

MMXI It's time for some Wizardry!

 

[Stabwound]

/e: Stabwound you worry too much bro, one day you might get a seizure if you continue to walk through life with that negative mindset of yours. Try to ease up and enjoy the beautiful downfall of humankind.

 

[felipepepe]

I wonder how those people would play P&P RPG's.

"You meet a good-looking woman on the road, she eyes you sus-"
"IS SHE HOT? CAN I MARRY HER?"
"... John, please, stop doing that."
"IT IS INTEGRAL TO MY ROLE-PLAYING EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN SUCK IT."

I hope D&D 5th Edition come with detailed romance and housekeeping rules, for real immershum value. That would be much more appreciated than the pointless Monsters Manual no one cares about...

 

[CrustyBot]

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=503&start=30

Holy crap! I can't even believe what I am reading. Registered just for this thread.

How is this even a debate? You guys want to play a Role-Playing-Game, don't you? What is Role-Playing exactly?
Well, you assume a role and act accordingly. Acting in a role means interacting with the environment. The environment has other people (also called NPCs). How do you interact with other people other then shooting them? Yes, you talk to them!

If you create the entire party you can't have interactions between your party members. And this makes them silent zombies without personality for the entire game (excluding the one character who does the talking to NPCs - he gets to show what person he is, through your choices). Anyone playing pen&paper RPGs? Imagine not being able to interact with the other party members.

This is the only reason I can see why the Icewind Dale series did poorly compared to the Baldur's Gate series. Essentially they were the same - only Baldur's Gate had characters, while Icewind Dale had custumizable chess pieces.

But apparently some of you want their team to STFU and just follow your orders. "God, I hate talking to people ... even in video games!" Amiright?

MMXI It's time for some Wizardry!

It's a roleplaying game because you play the role of a therapist!

Though I'd actually be pretty happy if they took the Storm of Zehir route in terms of party members having dialog.

 

[Renegen]

Today's best thread: Bioware
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=517

An angry troll is annoyed at being ignored and poked fun at and so he decides to go in the open and expose himself as a full on Bioware fan and takes it to the forum. He is labelled and marked as the troll he is and his ideas derided. I can feel with each reply as if a spear pierces his thick hide and that at any moment this awkward beast will fall to the ground in total defeat.

Good job Codex bros, this is how we smoke them out.

Whew, vigilance in the "Must Have List" forum requires a tremendous amount of stamina and willpower because the threads are relentless, Godspeed Codexers, we shall prevail, FOR THE EMPEROR.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

detailed romance and housekeeping rules, for real immershum value

I have taken the liberty of screenshotting you some rules and mechanics from my book of erotic fantasy printed d20 dlc

http://i.imgur.com/2d0L4.png
http://i.imgur.com/j8Kt6.png

look at all those numbers eh

like jagged alliance with orifices

 

[MMXI]

MMXI It's time for some Wizardry!

There's no point in Wizardry getting involved because he won't be able to tell the trolls from the BioWhores.

 

[Sulimo]

But that'd just lack character, if the first random person who joins my party doesn't confide her daddy-issues in me and shows me her boobs after 3 hours of gametime, then what is the point. WHAT IS THE POINT, CRUSTYBOT? OH THE HUMANITY!

Seriously, these people. They have no feel for allocating development resources. Let them just make the core game first, and if they have time left at the end let them add in a silly romance or 2 to placate the whiners. It really didn't dawn on me until now how poisonous the influence of Bioware on RPGs actually was. The biotards kept it contained to their developer-overlord, but it'd seem they flock out to ruin other developers lately. I spit on them and their shrivelled testicles.

... actually, I don't. They'd probably like it. Fucking creeps.

 

[Infinitron]

A breakthrough!

Emphasize to the Biodrones that Fargo's favorite game was romanceless, banterless, grognardy Icewind Dale.

(skip to 7:20)

This will break their spirits and send them fleeing.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I wonder how those people would play P&P RPG's.

"You meet a good-looking woman on the road, she eyes you sus-"
"IS SHE HOT? CAN I MARRY HER?"
"... John, please, stop doing that."
"IT IS INTEGRAL TO MY ROLE-PLAYING EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN SUCK IT."

Extra thing I found

So accurate

By the way, the LGBTWQDQADCA thread keeps delivering.

I'm all for renaming this into "Captain Planet RPG" and including all people of every ethnicity, possible heritage, social status and sexual preference into the game.

I just hope there isn't any trouble with licensing.

At the same time they should also remove any stereotyping, violence, religion, sexuality and other topics from the game that might offend anyone though, not sure if that's possible but I'm sure it'll turn out great!

 

[CrustyBot]

detailed romance and housekeeping rules, for real immershum value

I have taken the liberty of screenshotting you some rules and mechanics from my book of erotic fantasy printed d20 dlc

http://i.imgur.com/2d0L4.png
http://i.imgur.com/j8Kt6.png

look at all those numbers eh

like jagged alliance with orifices

Trash Mob:

But that'd just lack character, if the first random person who joins my party doesn't confide her cisgendered daddy-issues in me and shows me her boobs or her penis after 3 hours of cinematics discussing what's wrong about the discrimination caused by the heteronormative values of modern society, then what is the point. WHAT IS THE POINT, CRUSTYBOT? OH THE HUMANITY!

Fixed.

Seriously, these people. They have no feel for allocating development resources. Let them just make the core game first, and if they have time left at the end let them add in a silly romance or 2 to placate the whiners. It really didn't dawn on me until now how poisonous the influence of Bioware on RPGs actually was. The biotards kept it contained to their developer-overlord, but it'd seem they flock out to ruin other developers lately. I spit on them and their shrivelled testicles.

... actually, I don't. They'd probably like it. Fucking creeps.

It's not about RPGs to them, they'd probably be fine with adventure games or action games or whatever kind of game. It's that they see BioWare games in particular as a way to explore social issues relevant to them so they can feel "smart" but only to the point where it amounts to little more than ego stroking and sexual wish fulfillment. People like getting their ego stroked, so they'd obviously want to spread this to all RPGs, right?

Because BioWare does it (or is starting to do it) and BioWare is the best RPG developer evar!

What's insidious about all this is not the subject matter (there's nothing with gay romance, or relationships or w/e, lonely nerdrage be damned), it's how it's approached. Rather than using as a way to flesh out the lore, universe, story or yes, characters, it's offered to you as a buffet to pick and choose. Often a melodramatic buffet.

The most frustrating thing about it though is that it's given a retardedly disproportionate amount of attention by both devs and players and spreads where it's not needed (because "Because BioWare does it (or is starting to do it) and BioWare is the best RPG developer evar!").

 

[Ulminati]

A breakthrough!

Emphasize to the Biodrones that Fargo's favorite game was romanceless, banterless, grognardy Icewind Dale.

This will break their spirits and send them fleeing.

What a biodrone will hear:

"Yadda yadda best rpg ever yadda yadda made by bioware yadda yadda"

 

[sgc_meltdown]

for lazy people he specifically says he liked it more than BG2 and basically the purity of experience it conveyed, also mentioning fallout 2 and torment, all the ones from that period

Unless BF comes out to muddy this statement for some grotesque reason that should be a clear message to the newshit roleplayers that this man is not going to speak their language with Wasteland 2.

tragically they will have to settle for a turn based post apocalyptic game with interesting quests and tactical squad combat

It's that they want the genre to become a way to explore social issues relevant to them but only to the point where it amounts to little more than ego stroking and sexual wish fulfilment.

it really is armchair activism of the worst kind

little different to the meaninglessness of passing on a chain email about similar issues or upvoting some circlejerk crap on reddit except in this case it's in a fucking game and not something you can just block or easily ignore

aren't these messages being championed properly by bioware and jast usa already in far greater viewing numbers, why you must come here to our humble unshaven people with guns killing each other product and also want diversity and representation

it is a not modular thing that you can just snap on like lego it is a growing parasite that feeds on naive goodwill and deliberate subproritisation of game design for cheap unethical sociological manipulation and other big words