Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Editorial Was Obsidian the Smart Choice for Fallout: New Vegas?

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by VentilatorOfDoom, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. VentilatorOfDoomgender: ⚧ RPG Codex Staff Patron

    VentilatorOfDoom
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Parrots:
    7,494
    Location:
    Deutschland
    Click here and disable ads!
    Tags: Fallout: New Vegas; Obsidian Entertainment

    <p>... is a question raised by <a href="http://www.gamezone.com/editorials/item/was_obsidian_entertainment_the_smart_choice_for_fallout_new_vegas/" target="_blank">GameZone</a>.</p>
    <blockquote>
    <p>Fallout 3 is a very tough act to follow. Released in 2008 to stellar reviews and huge sales, it&rsquo;s a real modern classic. As the sequel to two equally f&eacute;ted 2D RPGs, Fallout 3 had a lot to live up to itself, making the switch to both three dimensions and a new developer, following the 2004 collapse of Fallout&rsquo;s old publisher, Interplay.</p>
    <p>The series&rsquo; new minders handled the challenge skilfully, taking the unique post-nuclear flavor of Fallout - think Mad Max meets 1950&rsquo;s Public Information films - and mixing it with Bethesda&rsquo;s trademark massive, open exploratory worlds of myriad challenges and plotlines. They also assuaged fan fears that it might abandon the series&rsquo; turn-based roots, by incorporating strategy into the combat in the form of Action Points - played as a straight FPS, Fallout is punishingly difficult, but the player can pause the game at any time and use slowly recharging Action Points to take precision shots.</p>
    <p>Fallout 3 featured the surroundings of a ruined Washington DC, but in New Vegas the setting has moved to&mdash;no wild guesses needed&mdash;Las Vegas, an area somewhat less affected by the nuclear war and very different in tone and feel.</p>
    <p>Does the team at Obsidian have what it takes to make New Vegas a Royal Flush? Or will the new Fallout be little more than a glorified add-on to a tired old game? The jury&rsquo;s still out - and the evidence for both scenarios is almost equally powerful. Let me help you make your mind up.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Yes, let him help. Don't hesitate to utter your own opinion on the subject, smart choice y/n?</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/99364-was-obsidian-entertainment-the-smart-choice-for-fallout-new-vegas.html">GB</a></p>
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Konjadgender: ⚧ High on potatoes Patron

    Konjad
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Parrots:
    13,626
    Location:
    Deep dark basement
    Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    :salute:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Narkgender: ⚧ Savant

    Nark
    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Parrots:
    517
    What the fuck are they talking about? :x
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Derpergender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Derper
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Parrots:
    1,142
    Location:
    Aaaargh
    :M
     
    ^ Top  
  5. ElectricOttergender: ⚧ Scholar

    ElectricOtter
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Parrots:
    3,016
    Location:
    a broken glass bottle full of rooms
    ???

    And yes, Obsidian is probably the best choice for a modern dev to make a Fallout 3 expansion. But Jeff Vogel might do it better. Just sayin'.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Andyman Messiahgender: ⚧ Mr. Ed-ucated

    Andyman Messiah
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Parrots:
    9,898
    Location:
    Narnia
    Shit, I don't know about those new Obsidian cats. They haven't done this shit nearly as long as them Bethesda dawgs!
     
    ^ Top  
  7. KalosKagathosgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Learned

    KalosKagathos
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Parrots:
    1,988
    Location:
    Russia
    "Punishingly difficult"? Wow.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. merchant's skeletongender: ⚧ Educated

    merchant's skeleton
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Parrots:
    44
    What a stupid fucking article.

    I'm getting a real sense of schadenfreude out of some of these Obsidian write ups.

    Granted I haven't played AP so I don't have a legitimate opinion on how good or bad it is, but I believe this is the second such article I've seen about Obsidian before they've even released the game. You don't see this for Bioware and DA2, and every thing I've heard about that is much more retarted than what I've heard about FO:NV.

    I'm cautiously optimistic. Don't let me down Obsidian. :rpgcodex:
     
    ^ Top  
  9. kanenasgender: ⚧ Educated

    kanenas
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Parrots:
    122
    CTRL+C
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Azrael the catgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Azrael the cat
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    6,112
    Location:
    The island of misfit mascots
    Of course, I have to give the disclaimer that I loved AP. Feel free to ignore the rest of my opinion accordingly.

    But it depends a bit on what you mean by 'smart choice'. Is it the best choice for doing something good with the FO3 game? Yes. The idea of the project is to take the FO3 engine, tech and gameplay over to a new campaign with a small amount of new art and new stuff. In ye olden days, we'd call that an 'expansion pack'. Sometimes those expansion packs would be longer in single player campaigns than the original game, or at least of a comparable length - e.g. the Blizz RTS explansions Brood War and Frozen Throne. I figure they're a good analogy because the aim is similar - do a new campaign with the same tech and basic gameplay, but hopefully dedicating the whole project to campaign creation rather than engine/design will enable a better campaign.

    Obsidian are very talented writers, with weaknesses in game balance, de-bugging and all the techie stuff. So it makes perfect sense to say: 'All the stuff that you suck at has already been done for you. Of course, we suck at those things as well, so the gameplay is still horrible. But our marketing magic and satanic voodoo has convinced people that it is somehow fun, so you should be able to make use of that. We just want you to do the stuff that you're good at: write us a campaign and some dialogue.'

    I can't think of a better choice. There's better writers/designers perhaps: I'd love to see Tournquist (from TLJ/DF) have full artistic control over a campaign design. And from a level design perspective, I'd willingly allow myself to be sold as Warren Spector's sex slave if that was a necessary component of a deal for him to dedicate himself to going back to PC-based FP/crpgs and trying to make the best successor(s) to Deus Ex and SS2 that he can. He could insist on tasering rights as part of the deal, and I'd happily be going 'yes that's fine..AAAGGHGHHHH...wow that's an awesome map...FUCAARAR GOD IT HURTS....so many alternative ways of approaching the goGGOGHOOPREES I'M BURNINNNGGGG...cool dialogue too NOOO GODD DON'T PUT IT THERAAAAAAGHGHHH!HHH!!!!!...and absolutely no minigames, brilliant!'' Of course, the whole deal would probably get sunk by my inability to avoid premature ejaculation every time I see anything regarding Deus Ex 1.

    But I can't see his stuff gelling with the FO3 fanbase - Obsidian can mix greatness with retardedness, and present a chance of writing something that fixes the worst aspects of FO3 (the awful awful writing and bland campaign) without alienating the average punter with too much intelligent dialogue, 3 syllable words and long stretches without toilet humour. The only problems with the choice are those attached to the whole idea of the game - whether FO3 is just too awful to be resurrected by an outside design/writing team.

    In terms of it being a good choice, money wise? Less certain. The Bethtards might not jump onto an Obsidian game in large numbers, and they might not have such myopia to already-existing flaws (or new ones). They don't like Obsidian - they hate FO2 not because it wasn't hardcore enough, but because it was too INCREDIBLY hardcore with such 'dull' turn-based combat and non-first-person graphics - name an Obsidian game and the Bethtards hate it for the exact opposite reasons that the Codex hive hates it. It isn't a sign of their incline insomuch as evidence supporting the circle theory of ideology - that when you hit the extremes of politics (or, um, gaming tastes...) you end up curving around and hating the same things for opposite reasons.

    And if the Bethtards DO jump onto the game, and like it...what then? Let's say that Sawyer and co have cobbled together a good - or at least a passable - set of dialogue and skill-interaction. Are they really going to want to go back to '[Intelligence] You use words to fight the good fight?'. Or is Beth's self-admitted (by Toddler, not by 'we-can-do-no-wrong' Hinesy) biggest flaw (writing) going to stand out all the more to their main audience. You can tell from the way Todd comments on their weaknesses that HE is well aware that they lack the talent - even after trying to hire better writers - compared even to other AAA crpg makers, and that he's worried that their fans will catch on. Maybe it's an experiment to see if they can work well with Obsidian. If the game does well, I wouldn't be surprised to see them subcontracting out some of the NPC dialogue to Obsidian for future games (or maybe they'll try to poach whichever writing staff do well).
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Andyman Messiahgender: ⚧ Mr. Ed-ucated

    Andyman Messiah
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Parrots:
    9,898
    Location:
    Narnia
    There's only KOTOR2 and it had an open ending, really. Good/evil guy defeats evil/more evil guy, fucks off into the sunset for new adventures. There's the ending. I'd call that finished.

    Obsidian is fighting an uphill battle of idiots who can't see that "failing to impress when it comes to core gameplay" is something that 99% of all games struggle with. And most of them don't even have a coherent, non-linear narrative with plenty of choice and consequence.

    Oblivion was a shitty mess of unoptimized and poorly done graphics. Like with everything else the modding community had to step in and make things look pretty. Same deal with Fallout 3.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Freelance Henchmangender: ⚧ Arcane

    Freelance Henchman
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Parrots:
    11,310
    Location:
    SPAAAAAAAAAACE...
    Project: Eternity
    Is this coming out soon? I can feel the KKKodex Hate Reactor spinning up already. :D
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Andyman Messiahgender: ⚧ Mr. Ed-ucated

    Andyman Messiah
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Parrots:
    9,898
    Location:
    Narnia
    As if I needed more fuel to dislike you.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Make America Great Again Jackgender: ⚧ █▓▒░

    Jack
    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Parrots:
    3,904
    Location:
    Among The Ruins
    :lol:

    :retarded:
    Old game?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Make America Great Again Turisasgender: ⚧ Arch Devil Patron

    Turisas
    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Parrots:
    9,276
    The funniest thing about that article is that the writer probably really believes what he wrote.

    A real modern classic all right.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Secretninjagender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Secretninja
    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Parrots:
    3,797
    Location:
    Orgrimmar
    Azrael the cat critically strikes your brain for 8 points of tl;dr. It no longer works properly, and you begin to enjoy fallout 3 for what it is.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. DriacKingender: ⚧ Arbiter

    DriacKin
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Parrots:
    2,588
    Location:
    Inanescape
    Didn't like The Longest Journey?
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Andyman Messiahgender: ⚧ Mr. Ed-ucated

    Andyman Messiah
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Parrots:
    9,898
    Location:
    Narnia
    No, it was good for what it was. But Dreamfall was a piece of shit covered in feces.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. latexmonkeysgender: ⚧ Scholar

    latexmonkeys
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Parrots:
    233
    Location:
    New Sorpigal
    Graphically dated?

    Graphics are pretty much at a standstill until the new generation of consoles come out aren't they? :smug:
     
    ^ Top  
  20. hoverdoggender: ⚧ dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive Developer

    hoverdog
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2010
    Parrots:
    5,589
    Location:
    Jordan, Minnesota
    Project: Eternity
    yes, dreamfall was a major fucking disappointment.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. zeitgeistgender: ⚧ Augur

    zeitgeist
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Parrots:
    1,395
    I find the fact that they call Fallout 3 a "modern classic" when talking about Bethesda and a "tired old game" when talking about Obsidian, all in the same article, quite amusing.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. commiegender: ⚧ The Last Marxist Patron

    commie
    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Parrots:
    1,864,744
    Location:
    Where one can weep in peace
    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Exactly. That's the irony of the age: All the clamor to praise grafikz in every game yet graphically games are less impressive than many PC efforts of 2006-2007. We won't really see a jump until DX12 in the new consoles.
     
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. cogar48gender: ⚧ Educated

    cogar48
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Parrots:
    122

    Yeah...
     
    ^ Top  
  24. Make America Great Again racofergender: ⚧ Thread Incliner

    racofer
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Parrots:
    20,292
    Location:
    Your ignore list.
    [​IMG]
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Make America Great Again Mastermindgender: ⚧ Arcane Bethestard

    Mastermind
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Parrots:
    17,386
    Here, I'll try to explain it to you:

    Your preferences are not universal. In fact, your preferences vary wildly from the rest of the gaming population. You don't like Dragon Age (I don't either actually), but a lot of people do. As such, Bioware generally gets the benefit of the doubt, because regardless of your personal preferences, people like the games they make. The same is not the case with Obsidian, which even the Codex loves to hate half the time. Obsidian churns out a lot of shit by both mainstream and codexfag standards. So people wonder if letting them make a sequel to a very successful game like Fallout 3 is a good idea.

    I know, it's hard getting your head around the concept that you (and the codex in general, and I include myself here) are pretty much irrelevant to most gamers and gaming publications. Tone down that ego a little bit and it'll all make sense.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)